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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:07 biology]major wrote: Lmao the dems are really obsessed with that Hispanic vote. Learn to speak English please, the majority of us can't understand Spanish 50m speak it, second most popular language in the US, a nation with no official language. More people in the US speak Spanish than any other nation besides Mexico. Perish the thought. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
1. The benefits tend to aggregate at the top while the poor suffer from them. 2. It can be a slippery slope to poorly planned political soft-power grabs. The EU coming out of its predecessors is a good example and it's reaching a crisis point for a good reason. I'm not a huge fan of globalism in general. I don't see it ending well. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On July 26 2016 07:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Keep lying about people you disagree with; I'm sure it'll work out for you eventually. You must at least admit you often interpret Trump's words, right? | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:08 Plansix wrote: We have no national language. They don't care about you when they are speak Spanish. I'm a naturalized citizen and the language of the USA is English. If someone immigrated to the country they should take the time to learn English and learn the values of the place they are immigrating to. This is a sad celebration of illegal immigration. They don't even aknowledge it as breaking the law lmao. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:03 zlefin wrote: fiwi -> I can't see youtube vids, due to settings. so whatever point your video was to make will not be noted by me. have you read it then fiwi? I also dislike watching vids; I'd rather have the text of osmething, that's much faster to read; and it's easier to quote which facilitates discussion. legal -> which results do you find unsatisfactory? as to it being long; wlel, everything these days is long and complicated; if you don't make it detailed then there ends up being a bunch of debates/issues over uncovered stuff. If I were in congress i'd read it; as is, i'll skim a few sections maybe. TPP is just so huge, some 6000 pages, there wont be enough time for people to make their opinions since it has to be ratified so quickly after being released. Few issues: Secrecy, mostly written by multinationals, loss of sovereignty (companies suing countries), soon to be international SOPA, bad for smaller businesses, and it'll destroy any and all local industry which is protected. And even though it supports workers rights, you can expect that this is a very anti-union deal that's designed with gigantic companies in mind. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:02 Plansix wrote: Please watch this youtube video made by this random internet man. There is literally no chance you could get better information elsewhere. I don't think you understand how communication works. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:12 FiWiFaKi wrote: I don't think you understand how communication works. You type out your arguments instead of posting 20 minute videos as responses. No one had time for that shit. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:10 LegalLord wrote: Two major issues with those trade agreements. 1. The benefits tend to aggregate at the top while the poor suffer from them. 2. It can be a slippery slope to poorly planned political soft-power grabs. The EU coming out of its predecessors is a good example and it's reaching a crisis point for a good reason. I'm not a huge fan of globalism in general. I don't see it ending well. I don't think the poor tend to suffer; I think for the poor it tends to be neutral; they have some losses; but some gains from cheaper goods. So it tends to be a wash. I agree the benefits tend to aggregate to much at the top from them; though I think that's best fixed by adjusting domestic policies (e.g. high income tax brackets) when agreeing to trade deals. I don't think modifying the terms of the trade deal can readily fix the problem of too much of the benefit going to the rich. No comment on point 2 at this time. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:08 Simberto wrote: Agreed. Videos as arguments suck. I will not watch a 20 minute video that took you 20 seconds to post. If you can't put in the effort to actually write out your argument, i won't put in the effort of reacting to it. Why would I bother to write out something I've written half a dozen times before? I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to provide quality information and a perspective over the 20 other garbage videos on youtube on TPP, and nobody here will read a 10000-20000 word review of it. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:14 Plansix wrote: You type out your arguments instead of posting 20 minute videos as responses. No one had time for that shit. Please take a look at a one minute video if you want to learn anything then, okay. Yes, if you want to get educated in something, it takes more than reading two lines. These things have been reiterated by other people hundreds of times, so no reason for me to expend my energy. You'd have a good starting point to learn about the TPP and where to head to, to learn more, after watching that video, but alas. You want to read a couple sentences and criticise my points 2 minutes later. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:16 FiWiFaKi wrote: Please take a look at a one minute video if you want to learn anything then, okay. Yes, if you want to get educated in something, it takes more than reading two lines. These things have been reiterated by other people hundreds of times, so no reason for me to expend my energy. You'd have a good starting point to learn about the TPP and where to head to, to learn more, after watching that video, but alas. You want to read a couple sentences and criticise my points 2 minutes later. Why would I watch some rando on the internet when I have already read and review the opinions of people I trust more? On July 26 2016 09:00 FiWiFaKi wrote: TPP is awful, it's another step to a more robotic and less private society. You will notice how no one asked for your opinion? You posted the it completely unsolicited and then got mad when everyone said "no thanks." We don't "educate" ourselves as your command. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:12 FiWiFaKi wrote: TPP is just so huge, some 6000 pages, there wont be enough time for people to make their opinions since it has to be ratified so quickly after being released. Few issues: Secrecy, mostly written by multinationals, loss of sovereignty (companies suing countries), soon to be international SOPA, bad for smaller businesses, and it'll destroy any and all local industry which is protected. And even though it supports workers rights, you can expect that this is a very anti-union deal that's designed with gigantic companies in mind. It's enough time for whichever experts you trust to review it and comment on it. Though I would prefer a longer period. As to secrecy; I find that a sad necessity. If negotiations aren't done in secret; loser politicians argue and complain about every little point in order to make themselves look good; when compromise is a necessary part of dealmaking. The loss of sovereignty is a concern, though I find it to be fairly minor, and of course quite necessary. The death of protected industries is a good thing; as it means more wealth for everyone. Not sure about the bad for smaller businesses part. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
Someone here supported the TPP, and I don't... As they didn't provide any insight, I wanted to say I don't, and provide some of the reasons of why not (reasons I'd have no need to repeat multiple times, so I listed a source (I'd consider fairly unbiased) to explain it). The TPP was mentioned once, and many others hopped on board to give their position on it. From what I've seen, most people talk out of their butt about TPP, however it looks like zlefin has done some reading, so potentially I didn't need to jump in with a video. PS: I didn't ask for your opinion either, and there's been a couple times I've asked you to not reply to my posts, as you spread shit wherever you go on this forum Plansix. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Not protecting industries in weaker countries means they lose any hope of developing any industry other than slave labor. Which is one source of economic hegemony that is not a good thing in the long run. | ||
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Introvert
United States4825 Posts
"I'm not sure whether they have any mechanism to vote their conscience on the floor and rectify the problem or not, but clearly these people were lied to in the most personal way," Priebus said Monday on CNN. "So, yeah, they're mad and they should be." http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/289127-rnc-chair-raises-idea-that-dem-delegates-be-allowed-to-vote# | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:23 Introvert wrote: And now for something amusing. I thought Priebus was just a boring jerk, but now I see that he is a master troll. http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/289127-rnc-chair-raises-idea-that-dem-delegates-be-allowed-to-vote# The delegates should be able to vote for who they want, as opposed to who won their state. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:23 LegalLord wrote: Sometimes you have to protect industries because they need time to grow to be internationally competitive. That doesn't mean they're not healthy and deserve to die. Not protecting industries in weaker countries means they lose any hope of developing any industry other than slave labor. Which is one source of economic hegemony that is not a good thing in the long run. I agree that occasional protection can be worthwhile. But protection tends to become politically entrenched over time. Comparative advantage should result in some industries growing anyways, as long as the population has or is given the necessary skills; protectionism nullifies the benefit of trade by comparative advantage. I'd say the benefits of free trade have proven themselves in general; though whether the more recent trade deals provide that benefit moreso than is already the case via other, older trade deals I don't know. I find your assertion that weaker countries couldn't develop anything without protection to be highly suspect. If nothing else, the lure of places with skills and low wages should cause some industry development; and of course there are other things which would cause such as well. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44615 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:12 biology]major wrote: I'm a naturalized citizen and the language of the USA is English. If someone immigrated to the country they should take the time to learn English and learn the values of the place they are immigrating to. This is a sad celebration of illegal immigration. They don't even aknowledge it as breaking the law lmao. First, just because a family prefers to speak their native language- which is incredibly popular in this country- doesn't mean that family is in this country illegally. That's a racist assumption to make. Second, what are these American values that you worry about? Because if it's the values from the Statue of Liberty poem- "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free...", then I think that plenty of immigrants understand the message, and plenty of closed-minded, xenophobic Americans don't. Third, your comment of "the language of the USA is English" is just plain false. We don't have an official national language. English is the most popular, sure, but that's not a legal recognition. And fourth, speaking Spanish isn't illegal. What the heck are you talking about, saying that not learning English is "breaking the law lmao"? | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 26 2016 09:23 LegalLord wrote: Sometimes you have to protect industries because they need time to grow to be internationally competitive. That doesn't mean they're not healthy and deserve to die. Not protecting industries in weaker countries means they lose any hope of developing any industry other than slave labor. Which is one source of economic hegemony that is not a good thing in the long run. This is certainly the best case, a free market in a developing country will result you selling your country to someone else. In the long term, this effect is far less pronounced, but for reasons (if someone wants to have an extremely long debate, PM me)... I think that having a free market will result you getting taken advantage of bit by bit by foreign powers, and over a 20 or 50 year period, you'll begin to suffer with the industries you have. I think an aggressive position towards benefiting your institutions is crucial, and should be continuously monitored, as you can quickly become a place of technology outflow, or become replaced with other players. @zlefin I've written a literature review on protectionism in developing markets, research suggests the same, you should take a look online. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/democratic-convention-live-coverage-of-day-one/?#livepress-update-23921631 They are saying it is not nearly as negative as some of the reports are claiming. | ||
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