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On June 24 2016 07:44 Plansix wrote:
Did you see his FEC filing? He funneled millions of that back into his own holdings, including his own private plane. And he spend 200K on hats. I also enjoyed wizbangsolutions.com and the 30K for device services. Their website is informative.
And all this is a maybe, he could be full of shit. He forgave a loan to himself. I do that every time I buy coffee when I should have made it at home.
Well,apearently he is obliged to do so by law.
For his plane at least,dont know about the other stuff.
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On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically?
It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you."
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On June 24 2016 08:26 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 07:44 Plansix wrote:
Did you see his FEC filing? He funneled millions of that back into his own holdings, including his own private plane. And he spend 200K on hats. I also enjoyed wizbangsolutions.com and the 30K for device services. Their website is informative.
And all this is a maybe, he could be full of shit. He forgave a loan to himself. I do that every time I buy coffee when I should have made it at home. Well,apearently he is obliged to do so by law. For his plane at least,dont know about the other stuff.
Yeah, the response I saw from a couple people familiar with FEC regulations was that more details were needed, but a 100% chance someone was assigned to make sure it was all on the up and up.
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I'm so happy about the Gray trial results. They brought up the best two cases first, like prosecutors do, and didn't even get manslaughter. Now Mosby is seeing her career diminished as more and more people see how politically motivated the charges were. In a country where I see so much injustice, blind hatred, and entrenched malign interests, these men have gone free.
I hesitate to hope, but if our friends across the pond choose departure (and sovereignty), this will be a simply stellar conclusion to the week.
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On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you."
Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner.
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On June 24 2016 09:19 Danglars wrote:
I'm so happy about the Gray trial results. They brought up the best two cases first, like prosecutors do, and didn't even get manslaughter. Now Mosby is seeing her career diminished as more and more people see how politically motivated the charges were. In a country where I see so much injustice, blind hatred, and entrenched malign interests, these men have gone free.
I hesitate to hope, but if our friends across the pond choose departure (and sovereignty), this will be a simply stellar conclusion to the week.
Did every of the officers wave their right to a jury trial?
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On June 24 2016 09:19 Danglars wrote:
I'm so happy about the Gray trial results. They brought up the best two cases first, like prosecutors do, and didn't even get manslaughter. Now Mosby is seeing her career diminished as more and more people see how politically motivated the charges were. In a country where I see so much injustice, blind hatred, and entrenched malign interests, these men have gone free.
I hesitate to hope, but if our friends across the pond choose departure (and sovereignty), this will be a simply stellar conclusion to the week.
I do not share your enthusiasm.
There's too often a troubling imbalance wherein officers go free for things that would see others convicted. I cannot say if this case is an instance of such.
I still wonder how the man died in police custody with noone having a bit of criminal responsibility for it; how many of the trials are yet to be concluded?
edit: PS while there is much injustice in the country; cops going free is pretty normal, regardless of their actual culpability.
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On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner.
Overruled. This is cross examination.
This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion."
EDIT
To put it more plainly, you seem to have two classes of Islamic (religious) people: those who are ISIS (or whatever) and who are clearly evil/hostile/the enemy; and those who are not ISIS (i.e. most muslims) and who you just get along fine with. My point here, and with the previous line of questioning about your hypothetical daughter voluntarily taking on the burkha, is that some people here (e.g. the Right) are more or less valid in pointing out that there's a whole range of muslims in between ISIS and your American friends that you had dinner with last week, and some of those muslims are not just "trying to get along with people" but are actually pretty opposed to assimilation. You can disagree about how many muslims exist at any given point on the spectrum, but your blithe "very progressive" stance can seem akin to sticking your head in the sand.
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On June 24 2016 09:19 Danglars wrote:
I'm so happy about the Gray trial results. They brought up the best two cases first, like prosecutors do, and didn't even get manslaughter. Now Mosby is seeing her career diminished as more and more people see how politically motivated the charges were. In a country where I see so much injustice, blind hatred, and entrenched malign interests, these men have gone free.
I hesitate to hope, but if our friends across the pond choose departure (and sovereignty), this will be a simply stellar conclusion to the week.
I donno, I would call the fact that someone died in police custody and no one seems to be responsible for it a bad thing.
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On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion."
Pffff... It's not even a leading question. Damn amateurs.
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The best part about this is that the man was taken into the custody of the state, his ability to control himself was taken away. He was placed into the truck by servants of the state, who did not comply with regulations set out by the state for his safe transport. Now he is dead due to injuries sustained during that time, but no one will at fault or even held accountable.
Government is bad and should stay out of peoples lives. But if one of Those People dies in the government's custody, we can't really blame anyone. Accidents happen.
And I am willing to bet all the officer's waved their right to a jury trial. Just a guess.
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On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion."
I've never associated with people who have vowed to kill me, so I have no experience. That comment was in response to "forced multiculturalism" as a concept in a nation of immigrants.
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On June 24 2016 09:40 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion." Pffff... It's not even a leading question. Damn amateurs.
Leading, loaded, what's the difference?
On June 24 2016 09:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion." I've never associated with people who have vowed to kill me, so I have no experience. That comment was in response to "forced multiculturalism" as a concept in a nation of immigrants.
That's kind of why I was asking you to imagine your hypothetical daughter choosing to wear a burkha and cast aspersions on your American way of life without actually "vowing to kill you." But it's clear you are uncomfortable actually thinking about the issue of "forced multiculturalism" here. The whole point is not whether you are comfortable living next to burkha-wearers, but whether you are comfortable living next to burka-wearers who are not comfortable with you.
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On June 24 2016 09:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion." I've never associated with people who have vowed to kill me, so I have no experience. That comment was in response to "forced multiculturalism" as a concept in a nation of immigrants.
Do you realize how wildly unsatisfying this answer is? It's a complete non-answer to a legitimate (and frankly, easy) question.
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On June 24 2016 09:42 Plansix wrote:
The best part about this is that the man was taken into the custody of the state, his ability to control himself was taken away. He was placed into the truck by servants of the state, who did not comply with regulations set out by the state for his safe transport. Now he is dead due to injuries sustained during that time, but no one will at fault or even held accountable.
Government is bad and should stay out of peoples lives. But if one of Those People dies in the government's custody, we can't really blame anyone. Accidents happen.
And I am willing to bet all the officer's waved their right to a jury trial. Just a guess.
My stance is that since Gray was injured and killed during their custody they should be held accountable. However, in this case, I don't think they should be crucified as evil racists committing police brutality. Most likely, it was officers just doing their job, but made poor decisions that cost the life of an individual. They most definitely should not be officers anymore, but the degree of punishment is very hard to decide. Mistakes and poor decisions should be expected to happen. It's a human run operation and you're never going to have a 100% success rate.
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On June 24 2016 09:49 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:44 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion." I've never associated with people who have vowed to kill me, so I have no experience. That comment was in response to "forced multiculturalism" as a concept in a nation of immigrants. Do you realize how wildly unsatisfying this answer is? It's a complete non-answer to a legitimate question (and frankly, easy) question.
I can't edit my responses fast enough. It is wildly unsatisfying. I think he knows that. But I don't think he understands how similar his response is to the imbecilic stonewalling of the more extreme Trump supporters in this thread when confronted with pointed questions.
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I'll answer pointed questions! Or at least I try to; I wonder if I'm doing it well enough when asked.
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On June 24 2016 09:48 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:40 xDaunt wrote:On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion." Pffff... It's not even a leading question. Damn amateurs. Leading, loaded, what's the difference? Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:44 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion." I've never associated with people who have vowed to kill me, so I have no experience. That comment was in response to "forced multiculturalism" as a concept in a nation of immigrants. That's kind of why I was asking you to imagine your hypothetical daughter choosing to wear a burkha and cast aspersions on your American way of life without actually "vowing to kill you." But it's clear you are uncomfortable actually thinking about the issue of "forced multiculturalism" here. The whole point is not whether you are comfortable living next to burkha-wearers, but whether you are comfortable living next to burka-wearers who are not comfortable with you.
I would be against that. I don't believe that would be a healthy way to live and I don't believe women should be forced to wear burkas. If they want to wear them just because they like them, well I'm not going get on my moral high horse about it. But that isn't going to be the thing that is going to make me dislike the people who move next door that wear burkas or whatever thing you think is a sign of "bad Muslims". And I already live next to shitty people that are not comfortable with me existing. My neighbor was caught on our property trying to trim trees on our property to see into our bedroom window. At night. He has threatened to poisons peoples dogs.
So if these fictional "bad Muslims that are uncomfortable with my existence" move in, its not going to be the religion that makes me dislike them.
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To be fair to Plansix, Igne is asking a question through an improbable scenario. Plansix is not likely to face a great deal of prejudice or hatred from extremist Muslims while living in America. Muslims only account for 1% of the population, and even if extremist Muslims who hate his guts live near by, they are most likely to hate him silently. Such a small minority of people don't really have a voice to press any sort of oppression on him.
Igne's scenario would require you to transport Plansix in the middle of Saudi Arabia and for him to continue living as he normally would.
This is accounting for your average conservative Muslim. I am not taking account for radical terrorist Muslims. So don't dismiss me with that.
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On June 24 2016 10:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 09:48 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:40 xDaunt wrote:On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion." Pffff... It's not even a leading question. Damn amateurs. Leading, loaded, what's the difference? On June 24 2016 09:44 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 09:37 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 09:20 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 08:29 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 06:16 Plansix wrote:On June 24 2016 06:09 IgnE wrote:On June 24 2016 05:45 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, I disagree with the core of your argument. Liberals accept that there are systematic problems in Islam that must be address. I accept it and I am very progressive on the front of religion. But I don’t address those systematic problems aggressively or forcefully enough, which you appear to disapprove of.
As for the rest, well I just try to get along with people and accept I am woefully ill equipped to critique most of their culture. So do you think a group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you is a problem? Is it a problem of culture? Define "group of people" please. Like which group, specifically? It's self-defining. As in, "the group of people who openly declare that they will never get along with you." Objection, leading question. Make your point, please. Rather than trying to lead me into a corner. Overruled. This is cross examination. This isn't a gotcha situation though. My point is that there are some people in this world who aren't just "trying to get along with people" and the question is what to do about them when they come into conflict with people like you are who are "very progressive on the front of religion." I've never associated with people who have vowed to kill me, so I have no experience. That comment was in response to "forced multiculturalism" as a concept in a nation of immigrants. That's kind of why I was asking you to imagine your hypothetical daughter choosing to wear a burkha and cast aspersions on your American way of life without actually "vowing to kill you." But it's clear you are uncomfortable actually thinking about the issue of "forced multiculturalism" here. The whole point is not whether you are comfortable living next to burkha-wearers, but whether you are comfortable living next to burka-wearers who are not comfortable with you. I would be against that. I don't believe that would be a healthy way to live and I don't believe women should be forced to wear burkas. If they want to wear them just because they like them, well I'm not going get on my moral high horse about it. But that isn't going to be the thing that is going to make me dislike the people who move next door that wear burkas or whatever thing you think is a sign of "bad Muslims". And I already live next to shitty people that are not comfortable with me existing. My neighbor was caught on our property trying to trim trees on our property to see into our bedroom window. At night. He has threatened to poisons peoples dogs. So if these fictional "bad Muslims that are uncomfortable with my existence" move in, its not going to be the religion that makes me dislike them.
So wearing a burqa is not a healthy way to live? Why not? Is that an Islam thing? A culture separate from Islam thing? I thought a few posts ago you were saying that you weren't in a position to criticize others' religion?
Why are you pretending that I am the one who thinks Muslims are "bad" when you are the one casting judgments on how they live? I am making values-neutral observations about two groups of people.
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EPT
