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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

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{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 16 2016 00:39 GMT
#81241
Well Johnson and Weld have been added to the CNN townhall...
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
June 16 2016 00:43 GMT
#81242
Clinton decided to try and reel in some of those libertarian independents by decapitating Johnson, severing her hand at the wrist, and sewing Johnson's head onto the stump.


Is it working? Where's Wegandi?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 00:45:02
June 16 2016 00:44 GMT
#81243
On June 16 2016 09:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 08:49 biology]major wrote:
Darkplasmaball, The school to prison pipeline statistics are unnerving, but you assume that there is a systemic discrimination causing the discrepancies vs blacks and whites. I think a far better explanation is that 75% of black kids are raised by a single parent, vs 25% in the rest of the population.


No. There is a distinct and clear racial component to the prison pipeline and pettifogging/trying to explain it away is complicity in my view.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


More Info


The kids are still at a huge disadvantage because a lot of the fathers are in jail or impregnate multiple women as your article indicates. Having a solid family support system is probably the most fundamental aspect of preventing kids from breaking the law or committing crimes.
Question.?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 00:48:35
June 16 2016 00:48 GMT
#81244
On June 16 2016 09:44 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 09:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 16 2016 08:49 biology]major wrote:
Darkplasmaball, The school to prison pipeline statistics are unnerving, but you assume that there is a systemic discrimination causing the discrepancies vs blacks and whites. I think a far better explanation is that 75% of black kids are raised by a single parent, vs 25% in the rest of the population.


No. There is a distinct and clear racial component to the prison pipeline and pettifogging/trying to explain it away is complicity in my view.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


More Info


The kids are still at a huge disadvantage because a lot of the fathers are in jail or impregnate multiple women as your article indicates. Having a solid family support system is probably the most fundamental aspect of preventing kids from breaking the law or committing crimes.

That is way more likely when people are not poor. It is a systemic problem, because the kid with it a dad becomes that absentee father when he goes to jail.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
June 16 2016 00:54 GMT
#81245
On June 16 2016 09:48 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 09:44 biology]major wrote:
On June 16 2016 09:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 16 2016 08:49 biology]major wrote:
Darkplasmaball, The school to prison pipeline statistics are unnerving, but you assume that there is a systemic discrimination causing the discrepancies vs blacks and whites. I think a far better explanation is that 75% of black kids are raised by a single parent, vs 25% in the rest of the population.


No. There is a distinct and clear racial component to the prison pipeline and pettifogging/trying to explain it away is complicity in my view.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


More Info


The kids are still at a huge disadvantage because a lot of the fathers are in jail or impregnate multiple women as your article indicates. Having a solid family support system is probably the most fundamental aspect of preventing kids from breaking the law or committing crimes.

That is way more likely when people are not poor. It is a systemic problem, because the kid with it a dad becomes that absentee father when he goes to jail.


I agree that it's a systemic problem, I just don't think its racism. The only truly racist thing I see from the posts here are the fact that same crimes receiving different sentences. Even that could probably be explained by repeat offenses and or severity of the crime.
Question.?
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1416 Posts
June 16 2016 00:55 GMT
#81246
On June 16 2016 07:54 SK.Testie wrote:
I don't think it matters whether what they have is substantial. So long as they can keep up the bombardment on low information voters they'll crush the election regardless. It's why I think Hillary simply has it in the bag. Every late night host, every news outlet, every celebrity, all guns are on Trump with very little support. Sound bites and snippets will always be played against him. His issues and policies will not matter.

I'm definitely not implying that high information voters don't have plenty of great arguments to vote against him. I'm well aware they have a literal truckload of reasons. But among high information voters you'll have a more equal split overall. Because a lot of those voters aren't necessarily voting for Trump or his immigration policies, they are voting on what they think governments role should be.

Whereas in Canada for instance, a tonne of women voted for Trudeau because he was cute. Regardless of how good a politician he may or may not be, I think most of us can agree this is a borderline retarded way to vote for your country.

Julian Assange from Wikileaks said he'd be releasing a lot of fun info on Clinton. And he genuinely dislikes and fears the woman for obvious reasons. Discussion on Hillary and not BRexit starts at around 4:10.
+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.facebook.com/wikileaks/videos/1032334066801705/


The things the media do,its incredibly when you start to notice it.
For example the media uses many different pictures of trump.
When cnn reported about the Orlando shooting they came to the point where they did cover trumps comments on the shooting, and on the screen was a trump picture with a HUGE smile. A picture of him I had not seen before,nor seen since. They could have taken a neutral picture with no smile but no.
Things like this,they do it on purpose. Its so childish and disgusting. And this was cnn,one of the more respected news channels.
In Europe its going the same way slowly,the world is being dumbed down at an enormous speed.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 16 2016 00:59 GMT
#81247
On June 16 2016 09:54 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 09:48 Plansix wrote:
On June 16 2016 09:44 biology]major wrote:
On June 16 2016 09:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 16 2016 08:49 biology]major wrote:
Darkplasmaball, The school to prison pipeline statistics are unnerving, but you assume that there is a systemic discrimination causing the discrepancies vs blacks and whites. I think a far better explanation is that 75% of black kids are raised by a single parent, vs 25% in the rest of the population.


No. There is a distinct and clear racial component to the prison pipeline and pettifogging/trying to explain it away is complicity in my view.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


More Info


The kids are still at a huge disadvantage because a lot of the fathers are in jail or impregnate multiple women as your article indicates. Having a solid family support system is probably the most fundamental aspect of preventing kids from breaking the law or committing crimes.

That is way more likely when people are not poor. It is a systemic problem, because the kid with it a dad becomes that absentee father when he goes to jail.


I agree that it's a systemic problem, I just don't think its racism. The only truly racist thing I see from the posts here are the fact that same crimes receiving different sentences. Even that could probably be explained by repeat offenses and or severity of the crime.

It's a product of past racism, sustained by laws that target blacks disproportionately. 3 strikes laws, the private prison system, being jailed for being unable to pay fines/court costs. All of these things result in a system that is biased against minorities. At some point failing to address those problems is complacency.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
June 16 2016 01:05 GMT
#81248
Are the laws themselves racist in intent? I don't believe so. How do you make a law that does not effect a group disproportionately? Abolish the law?
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
June 16 2016 01:06 GMT
#81249
There are plenty of laws that rightly punish some groups disproportionately, it all depends on what sort of groups you're talking about
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 01:10:28
June 16 2016 01:09 GMT
#81250
In the case of the US, we jail a larger percentage of our population than any other nation, including dictatorships. The large number of those are minorities and the laws disproportionately effect them due to that fact. It's not because we have more crime, it's because our justice system is broken.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24403 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 01:18:13
June 16 2016 01:15 GMT
#81251
On June 16 2016 10:09 Plansix wrote:
In the case of the US, we jail a larger percentage of our population than any other nation, including dictatorships. The large number of those are minorities and the laws disproportionately effect them due to that fact. It's not because we have more crime, it's because our justice system is broken.


And the words themselves are almost irrelevant.

We could have just one law in this country

1. Do the right thing

What makes it racist or misogynist, or whatever is it's implementation. It's a fine line to walk between trying to be better informed and intentionally obfuscating the issue. Though obviously there have been plenty of outright racist laws that got us here in the first place.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
June 16 2016 01:18 GMT
#81252
"Do the right thing" is vague and idealistic because people have different interpretations of what the right thing is.

And where do you begin to make the change? The laws themselves are written fairly I would argue to apply to all citizens. So then what is the proposed solution? For all I know the USA jails so many people because it has the most effective goddamn law enforcement in the world.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
gsgfdf
Profile Joined March 2015
Greece2 Posts
June 16 2016 01:19 GMT
#81253
On June 15 2016 23:05 SolaR- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2016 22:30 Plansix wrote:
On June 15 2016 22:23 SolaR- wrote:
On June 15 2016 22:20 Gorsameth wrote:
On June 15 2016 22:17 SolaR- wrote:
On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks.


I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags.

There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it?

You != other people.



So i should place importance and respect for something, simply because others do? Collectivism at it's finest.

There is no requirement to do so. Just don’t expect people to be supportive of your decision to go out of your way to be an asshole.


The atheist who has to see religion permeating through everything and influencing society through it's dogmatic prininciples is the asshole because he burns a book that you can buy at your local book store for 10 dollars.

I find it funny liberals love to call atheists or anti-theists assholes for simply criticizing religion, but will go to great lengths to defend Islam. One of the most oppressive religions of all time.

Religion is a choice, and like all choices it is subject to criticism and does not qualify for any level of respect. It is not to be grouped with race, gender, or sexuality as they are inherent in one's identity that cannot be changed.

The fact that we have so many religions with conflicting principles with people who take it so seriously to the extent of life or death is the very reason while we will continue to have violent conflicts. Immunity from criticism and their unwillingness to hear any criticism is the primary reason why Islam has lacked reform and modernization compared to the other Judaic religions.

In addition, people in this thread need to stop referring to Muslims as a race of people. It is a religion, not a race. The middle east is multi cultural. Black, brown, and white muslims. Many arabs are borderline white. So stop referring to it as a ban on brown people.

A bit late to the show. First of all, if any government official wanted me to burn something, be it the Quran or the latest issue of New York Times, I would seriously question their mental stability. The whole idea makes zero sense. That's my main objection, not being an asshole is a distant second.
Regarding the graphs that point to the acceptance of suicide bombing, does anyone else notice that the more unstable a country is the more desperate people become? Are we really questioning why a Palestinian or an Afghan is more likely to blow himself up than a Bosnian? Even in Europe, the territory with the most positive views on the subject is the one that has fared the worst the last twenty years.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 01:23:34
June 16 2016 01:22 GMT
#81254
On June 16 2016 10:18 SK.Testie wrote:
"Do the right thing" is vague and idealistic because people have different interpretations of what the right thing is.

And where do you begin to make the change? The laws themselves are written fairly I would argue to apply to all citizens. So then what is the proposed solution? For all I know the USA jails so many people because it has the most effective goddamn law enforcement in the world.

No. It's because we have a broken for profit prison system that makes money based on the number of inmates. And laws that encourages jail time for nonviolent crimes. It's a well documented problem.

And once again, we jail a larger percentage of our population than oppressive dictatorships.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
June 16 2016 01:29 GMT
#81255
On June 16 2016 10:22 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 10:18 SK.Testie wrote:
"Do the right thing" is vague and idealistic because people have different interpretations of what the right thing is.

And where do you begin to make the change? The laws themselves are written fairly I would argue to apply to all citizens. So then what is the proposed solution? For all I know the USA jails so many people because it has the most effective goddamn law enforcement in the world.

No. It's because we have a broken for profit prison system that makes money based on the number of inmates. And laws that encourages jail time for nonviolent crimes. It's a well documented problem.

And once again, we jail a larger percentage of our population than oppressive dictatorships.


1. For profit prisons make up less than 6% of state prisoners and 16% of federal. It's not the majority.

2. That dictatorship quote is completely meaningless. Who the hell wants to break the law when ruled with an iron fist? Jail? Hell, disappeared is more likely. And as if you could trust the books in those places for accurate statistics.

But that's not a solution to the problem. That's just saying some meaningless talking points.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24403 Posts
June 16 2016 01:31 GMT
#81256
Even in Europe, the territory with the most positive views on the subject is the one that has fared the worst the last twenty years.


Honestly I don't get why this is so hard to grasp. It's not like they had bread and circuses because they though it made more complete citizens, they did it because desperate people do desperate things if you don't at least distract them from their desperation.

What I think the modern incarnation of this argument basically looks like is Democrats arguing for more bread and more frequent circuses and Republicans arguing that it's too expensive, while neither wants to address the underlying issues that are making them both less effective at subduing the rage.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2686 Posts
June 16 2016 01:32 GMT
#81257
On June 16 2016 10:19 gsgfdf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2016 23:05 SolaR- wrote:
On June 15 2016 22:30 Plansix wrote:
On June 15 2016 22:23 SolaR- wrote:
On June 15 2016 22:20 Gorsameth wrote:
On June 15 2016 22:17 SolaR- wrote:
On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks.


I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags.

There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it?

You != other people.



So i should place importance and respect for something, simply because others do? Collectivism at it's finest.

There is no requirement to do so. Just don’t expect people to be supportive of your decision to go out of your way to be an asshole.


The atheist who has to see religion permeating through everything and influencing society through it's dogmatic prininciples is the asshole because he burns a book that you can buy at your local book store for 10 dollars.

I find it funny liberals love to call atheists or anti-theists assholes for simply criticizing religion, but will go to great lengths to defend Islam. One of the most oppressive religions of all time.

Religion is a choice, and like all choices it is subject to criticism and does not qualify for any level of respect. It is not to be grouped with race, gender, or sexuality as they are inherent in one's identity that cannot be changed.

The fact that we have so many religions with conflicting principles with people who take it so seriously to the extent of life or death is the very reason while we will continue to have violent conflicts. Immunity from criticism and their unwillingness to hear any criticism is the primary reason why Islam has lacked reform and modernization compared to the other Judaic religions.

In addition, people in this thread need to stop referring to Muslims as a race of people. It is a religion, not a race. The middle east is multi cultural. Black, brown, and white muslims. Many arabs are borderline white. So stop referring to it as a ban on brown people.

A bit late to the show. First of all, if any government official wanted me to burn something, be it the Quran or the latest issue of New York Times, I would seriously question their mental stability. The whole idea makes zero sense. That's my main objection, not being an asshole is a distant second.
Regarding the graphs that point to the acceptance of suicide bombing, does anyone else notice that the more unstable a country is the more desperate people become? Are we really questioning why a Palestinian or an Afghan is more likely to blow himself up than a Bosnian? Even in Europe, the territory with the most positive views on the subject is the one that has fared the worst the last twenty years.


It's just burning something of no value. I don't see how that is mentally unstable. The fact that you are so perplexed and appalled by the idea makes me question your degree of sanity. Mix a bit of disgust of religion, a bit of alcohol and some other drugs, and then a perfectly good religious text lying around with a lighter well lol. It's not mind breaking, and is stuff that I have done on a whim.

Also I might add it was testie who suggested the government test for burning the Qur'an. I never advocated that. I was merely saying it really isn't that big of deal, and i've done my share of burning objects of symbolic value.


I'm kind of tired of talking about this though, so let's let it rest.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 01:34:28
June 16 2016 01:33 GMT
#81258
On June 16 2016 10:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 10:09 Plansix wrote:
In the case of the US, we jail a larger percentage of our population than any other nation, including dictatorships. The large number of those are minorities and the laws disproportionately effect them due to that fact. It's not because we have more crime, it's because our justice system is broken.


And the words themselves are almost irrelevant.

We could have just one law in this country

1. Do the right thing

What makes it racist or misogynist, or whatever is it's implementation. It's a fine line to walk between trying to be better informed and intentionally obfuscating the issue. Though obviously there have been plenty of outright racist laws that got us here in the first place.



The irony is strong there. Your one law espouses personal responsibility more than anything. If there is a discrimination vs a certain group of people such that they receive longer sentences or are jailed more often, then it would mean that there should be even more pressure to be responsible for that group. They should be doing the right thing more often. Why is it the people shouting systemic racism never address this issue? Is it because you believe black people are not agents who control their own outcomes? It's always the system's fault. When I see the statistics, I see the opposite, it's always the person who commits the crime's fault. Yeah its unfair, but so what? don't commit the crime. There is still no sympathy from me.
Question.?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 16 2016 01:38 GMT
#81259
I'm always confused by people who hate the idea of government involvement with the Internet, but are in total support of the police. It's almost like they don't see police as agents of the state.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
June 16 2016 01:49 GMT
#81260
it's because most of the internet libertarians are sheltered suburban kids
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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