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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On August 28 2013 10:07 xDaunt wrote: I'd only show up to leave those hippies a flaming bag of poo. In all seriousness, though, it's pointless for the US to show up when countries like China and India won't. What's wrong with, y'know, negotiating in good faith, showing we're better than the Chinese, etc. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 28 2013 10:13 ticklishmusic wrote: What's wrong with, y'know, negotiating in good faith, showing we're better than the Chinese, etc. That's all fine and dandy when we can afford the cost of implementing the types of changes that these treaties demand. From the perspective of a sovereign state, I'm not willing to bear that economic burden when my chief geo-political competitors won't. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
historically the west have released a lot more GW material through earlier industrialization and whatnot. there should be numbers on this somewhere. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 28 2013 10:18 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Not to mention all the massive amount of farmland, and Federal lands that is not being used could be put to good use by planting tens of millions of trees. Tens of billions of dollars the military uses to not have any funds left over at the end of the year as to not have a surplus could be used to install solar panels on homes across the US. You can use Monsanto (and the like) seeds to increase yields and reduce acreage needs  And if you can find a way to get the government to waste less money, more power to ya | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
The Michigan Senate voted Tuesday to expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, extending health coverage to more than 400,000 low-income residents, but not without a little legislative drama first. The GOP-controlled chamber approved the bill by a 20-18 vote at about 8 p.m. Tuesday after being in session for more than eight hours, much of it spent in caucus debating how to get the expansion passed. Eight Republicans finally joined 12 Democrats to pass the bill. The House, which had already passed an expansion bill, will soon take a concurring vote, and Gov. Rick Snyder’s office confirmed to TPM that the governor would sign the legislation when it reaches his desk. Before the bill ultimately passed, the legislation was stuck in parliamentarian limbo for more than two hours. The bill needed 20 votes out of the 38-member Senate to pass. On its first vote at about 5:30 p.m., it received 19 yea votes and 18 nay votes in a floor vote, but Republican Sen. Patrick Colbeck, who is vehemently opposed to expansion, abstained from voting. If he had cast a nay vote, leaving a 19-19 tie, then Republican Lt. Gov. Brian Calley could have cast the tiebreaking vote to pass the bill, as Calley has pledged to do. Source | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On August 28 2013 13:08 sam!zdat wrote: jonny it's messianism because you think a magic technology solution is going to come along so you can keep living your pampered decadent american lifestyle and not have to face up to the reality of the situation, which is that we live in a fundamentally profligate society that will consume itself into oblivion I'm sorry you are clearly the one that sounds more religious and "Messianic." There's nothing "fundamental" about it. There's very practical and political reasons why we are where we are. These claims of destiny are silly. Right now we have a ton of resistance from corporations, conservatives, and libertarians, but whatever happens happens. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 28 2013 13:08 sam!zdat wrote: jonny it's messianism because you think a magic technology solution is going to come along so you can keep living your pampered decadent american lifestyle and not have to face up to the reality of the situation, which is that we live in a fundamentally profligate society that will consume itself into oblivion Well when we finally invent Star Trek Replicators and power source for them the whole world will be living like that | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
On August 28 2013 13:08 sam!zdat wrote: jonny it's messianism because you think a magic technology solution is going to come along so you can keep living your pampered decadent american lifestyle and not have to face up to the reality of the situation, which is that we live in a fundamentally profligate society that will consume itself into oblivion It's silly because you think a magical technology solution is not going to come along when so far it has every single time. Then there's the whole part where technology solutions aren't magical and to denigrate the possibility as such shows that you're either ignorant of the historical record which I'm sure you're not or your existential despair over the failure of Marxism is causing a wee bit of histrionics. The reality of the situation is that you have a religious need for society to be fundamentally profligate in a self-destructive way and if that doesn't happen you will be one very sad samipanda. Malthus is dead can't you let his poor limited butt rest in peace. Same nonsense was thrown around on the internet for 10+ years about peak oil because it filled the religious need to explain the motivations of Satan George W. Bush, turns out that magic technology solution that could never possibly come in time to prevent the oil crash came around in less than ten years and peak oil is thankfully back in the joke bin where it belongs with all the other Malthusian apocalypses. In the 60s and 70s it was food. Serious books written by serious people argued that there was no way humanity could grow enough food; tens if not hundreds of millions would starve to death in India alone, there would be food riots in Europe and the US... civilization would consume itself into oblivion. Obviously it didn't happen. A magical technology solution in agriculture was found. Human society nearly all human societies past the hunter-gatherer stage have been fundamentally profligate and yet while societies rise and fall human civilization as a whole keeps humming along, sami don't be sad that there's a train hop on it for the ride | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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TheOneWhoKnocks
160 Posts
On August 29 2013 00:09 DeepElemBlues wrote: It's silly because you think a magical technology solution is not going to come along when so far it has every single time. Then there's the whole part where technology solutions aren't magical and to denigrate the possibility as such shows that you're either ignorant of the historical record which I'm sure you're not or your existential despair over the failure of Marxism is causing a wee bit of histrionics. The reality of the situation is that you have a religious need for society to be fundamentally profligate in a self-destructive way and if that doesn't happen you will be one very sad samipanda. Malthus is dead can't you let his poor limited butt rest in peace. Same nonsense was thrown around on the internet for 10+ years about peak oil because it filled the religious need to explain the motivations of Satan George W. Bush, turns out that magic technology solution that could never possibly come in time to prevent the oil crash came around in less than ten years and peak oil is thankfully back in the joke bin where it belongs with all the other Malthusian apocalypses. In the 60s and 70s it was food. Serious books written by serious people argued that there was no way humanity could grow enough food; tens if not hundreds of millions would starve to death in India alone, there would be food riots in Europe and the US... civilization would consume itself into oblivion. Obviously it didn't happen. A magical technology solution in agriculture was found. Human society nearly all human societies past the hunter-gatherer stage have been fundamentally profligate and yet while societies rise and fall human civilization as a whole keeps humming along, sami don't be sad that there's a train hop on it for the ride Whenever you have a massive human edifice fall away, you will no doubt find another great edifice arise to take it's place and fulfill the same psychological need. Religion passed away, Environmentalism served as the substitute. There has always been great profit to be made telling people they are sinful, simply by virtue of being alive, and if they give you money you can be forgiven for the sin of breathing. The "original sin" simply moved from the Christian conception of the fall of Adam and Eve, that all humans were now born sinful and must be forgiven, to a more "rational" original sin, that we are sinful because we consume, and produce, and reproduce, and we must be saved from our own living and breathing. If we only turn our money over to the environmentalists they will lift this curse from us and save us from our sinfulness and destructiveness. Original sin has moved from disharmony with God to disharmony with Nature. | ||
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farvacola
United States18870 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
Stop acting like environmentalism is only pushed by vegan hippie stoners. It's anachronistic bullshit. There's serious technology and economics and biology (because humans are seriously affected by environmental things like lead) behind environmental concerns. | ||
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farvacola
United States18870 Posts
Health care has been a critical reason people seek employment, but now it is being seen as mission critical by employers, according to Josh Stevens, CEO of Keas, an employee health and wellness company. They released an HR executive survey about the coming open enrollment season, where employees have the opportunity to enroll or make changes to their healthcare plans. Not only are companies concerned about health care plans, but they are concerned about actual employee health as well: 60 percent of HR executives cite "lowering overall healthcare costs" and "improving overall employee health" as top priorities for 2014. This shows a continuation of the trend for companies develop and implement "wellness" programs. Thirty four percent of companies are looking to increase participation in already existing healthcare plans. With massive changes in healthcare laws through the Affordable Care Act (ACA), HR executives are focused on meeting those targets. Seventy four percent of respondents said they were on track to meet the original January 2014 deadline. Since the deadline for ACA compliance has been moved back to 2015, 58 percent will still meet the 2014 target. Thirty nine percent have concerns that they will be "overwhelmed" by employee communications and concerns. Twenty four percent say they have no concerns at all regarding communication. Healthcare is not the only focus of HR executives: 42 percent say that employee recruitment and retention is a key priority for the coming year. HR executives also say that CEOs are critical to a company's desire to attract and keep top talent. For instance: Sixty four percent of HR executives said that CEOs are guilty of not recognizing what motivates employees Forty one percent say that CEOs fail to lead in HR initiatives Thirty two percent say that CEOs don't have company culture as a priority. Health care is a priority for employers in 2014 | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
you guys responded to accusations of messianism by saying 'no, but OUR messiah is real, it's the historical record!' you ARE believers in the cult of technological progress, don't try to deny it. You just think you are atheists but GUESS WHAT - nobody is an atheist, atheism doesn't exist. debbie don't talk about the profligacy of past societies there has never been a society anything like ours and you know that perfectly well. double reed you are correct I am both 1) religious and 2) messianic. I'm condemning a false messiah not messianism in general. I believe in what walter benjamin calls 'weak messianism' which is the only way to stay sane in this lunatic world | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On August 29 2013 02:41 sam!zdat wrote: I have no problem with the idea of original sin. I think about original sin a great deal. My family is rich because of oil, and that's how I have money to study and learn about how oil is dooming us all. If that's not original sin I don't know what is. you guys responded to accusations of messianism by saying 'no, but OUR messiah is real, it's the historical record!' you ARE believers in the cult of technological progress, don't try to deny it. You just think you are atheists but GUESS WHAT - nobody is an atheist, atheism doesn't exist. debbie don't talk about the profligacy of past societies there has never been a society anything like ours and you know that perfectly well. double reed you are correct I am both 1) religious and 2) messianic. I'm condemning a false messiah not messianism in general. I believe in what walter benjamin calls 'weak messianism' which is the only way to stay sane in this lunatic world why doesnt it exist? | ||
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frogrubdown
1266 Posts
Because only reactionary, messianic, corporate, neoliberal apologists don't apply words according to sam's idiosyncratic meanings (In this case, the operative word is 'God', which I guess amounts to any belief that isn't backed by science? Maybe just any belief?) edit: I guess the latter, though 'believe' turned into 'worship' at some point. Maybe 'worship' is the new operative word. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
you always end up worshipping SOMETHING. Religious structures of belief don't go away. The key is to be aware of what you are worshipping and make sure it is a good thing to put your faith in. | ||
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