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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3926

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 02 2016 16:58 GMT
#78501
All the stories I hear about SV relate to them driving up all the prices in SF and making it unlivable for the natives of the city. And tech bros bitching about the fact that the Bart is past is lifespan and needs to be updated. And homeless people. Apparently if you make a lot of money, homeless people should go away.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
June 02 2016 17:14 GMT
#78502
On June 03 2016 01:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
Also Elizabeth Holmes is a fraud. I expect people will start suing her soon.


http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/01/celebrated-unicorn-rider-elizabeth-holmes-now-net-worth-zero/
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15688 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 17:33:21
June 02 2016 17:31 GMT
#78503
On June 03 2016 01:58 Plansix wrote:
All the stories I hear about SV relate to them driving up all the prices in SF and making it unlivable for the natives of the city. And tech bros bitching about the fact that the Bart is past is lifespan and needs to be updated. And homeless people. Apparently if you make a lot of money, homeless people should go away.


While this is not exactly the wording I would use, I would say that I am willing to pay a premium to live in an area that gets rid of homeless people. However, I have become very jaded regarding this issue after living in Portland for years. The amount of people I have encountered who have no desire to be remotely decent is too damn high. I'm completely drained of sympathy.

I'll support every effort to prevent homelessness and mental illness. But there are many people who are, at this point, purely toxic, awful individuals. There's no saving them and letting them occupy affluent areas does no one any good.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 02 2016 17:37 GMT
#78504
iirc some places in Utah have gotten rid of the homeless (guaranteed basic housing) and it's worked reasonably well. I remember reading awhile ago about some place having tried it. It's partly that it makes it easier for such people to get back on their feet; and can sometimes be cheaper/not much more expensive than the alternatives (often having to jail them for things, or medical bills due to exposure damage)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
June 02 2016 17:40 GMT
#78505
IIRC there have been a couple places that straight up gave homeless people basic housing and it was cheaper than funding all sorts of traditional social safety elements and had a net benefit
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 17:41:41
June 02 2016 17:40 GMT
#78506
Yeah, having worked in probation, even the bad people that you talk about are normally mentally ill or have drug problems. There are almost zero cases of people being homeless just because they are lazy. And I have zero patience for rich people who don't want to have to "put up with homeless people" existing in public places. Not even interacting with them, just them existing. They are already rich, so there zero excuse for being a dirt bag too.

Edit: basic housing is a good way to deal with homeless problem. It is easier for them to get help if they want it if that have that basic level of structure in their lives. And it takes a lot of the burden off police and public services.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
June 02 2016 17:41 GMT
#78507
On June 03 2016 02:14 SK.Testie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2016 01:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
Also Elizabeth Holmes is a fraud. I expect people will start suing her soon.


http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/01/celebrated-unicorn-rider-elizabeth-holmes-now-net-worth-zero/


She's probably paying herself a pretty solid salary with all sorts of cash components
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
killa_robot
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1884 Posts
June 02 2016 18:47 GMT
#78508
On June 03 2016 02:40 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, having worked in probation, even the bad people that you talk about are normally mentally ill or have drug problems. There are almost zero cases of people being homeless just because they are lazy.


Citation required.

I've met someone who was willingly homeless just because they felt like it. They had friends who were also willingly homeless. Though their lifestyle caught the attention of police on occasion.

That's not to say all homeless people want to be homeless, but to say almost none of them do is just ignorant.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 19:00:23
June 02 2016 18:59 GMT
#78509
On June 02 2016 17:55 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2016 15:04 On_Slaught wrote:
Pretty interesting listen the other day on the Diane Rehm show. A nice discussion about the rise of the far right in both Europe and the US. A lot of talk specifically about Fascism and whether it is what we're seeing.

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-06-01/the-rise-of-far-right-political-movements-in-the-west

If you don't have time to listen to the whole thing, in the last few minutes of the show a die hard Trump supporter calls in. His statement and the response from the panel are pretty fun.

Well there is a transcript, and the last few minutes are the run-of-the-mill catchphrases, buzzwords, false causes and strawmans you would expect.

Googleing the names of those people on the panel made my morning I laughed so hard. Thanks for this.


Irony.

Clinton about to give a foreign policy speech. Curious to see how much time she spends pointing out the danger of Trumps "policies." Juxtaposition on the issue she is most comfortable with, and the one Trump seems to struggle the most with, makes good strategic sense. Moreso given FP is one of the primary jobs of the President.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
June 02 2016 19:24 GMT
#78510
I must say, I'm surprised Ryan held out as long as he did.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 19:47:43
June 02 2016 19:42 GMT
#78511
I'm a YUUUUGE fan of this approach (and the speech in general) from Clinton. The best ammunition against Trump is his own words. Quoting him and pointing out the obvious absurdity and danger of his "policies" is an easy way to delegitimize Trump.

Of course this won't work on his supporters, who seem to rely more on emotion than logic in their support of him, but it is a good way to start chipping away at independents.

Unsurprisingly his response is that all her arguments are lies. Little harder to maintain that attack when she is literally quoting him on every argument.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 02 2016 19:49 GMT
#78512
When Donald Trump comes to Cleveland this summer to claim the Republican nomination, he’ll do it an eight-minute drive away from the George V. Voinovich Bridge. He’ll be eight minutes in the other direction from Voinovich Atrium at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and just a few minutes farther from Voinovich Bicentennial Park.

But as of now, Trump will be without the backing of George Voinovich himself, the former Ohio governor and senator —and one of the state’s favorite Republican sons — who has yet to throw his support behind the presumptive GOP nominee.

Trump’s swing-state trouble isn’t limited to Voinovich. While national Republican leaders have largely gotten on board, a host of key establishment figures in Ohio and Florida — including current Ohio Gov. John Kasich, former Gov. Bob Taft, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, Florida Reps. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Carlos Curbelo and other influential Latino leaders in Florida — are still refusing to get behind the GOP nominee.

“He has, over the campaign, talked about lots of things, and what he’s talked about in his solutions to these things have raised a lot of eyebrows,” said Voinovich, counting himself as one of what he described as many Ohioans who have serious concerns about Trump’s plans for everything from the debt to international alliances. “I mean, the point is, people are dismayed at some of the stuff.”

He went on to add, “He’s got a lot of work to do between now and the election to reach out, not only to Republicans, but to independents who have serious questions about whether he’s able to get the job done.”

A lack of establishment support didn’t slow Trump in the primary, as Trump got very few big-name endorsements but won handily anyway. But even if establishment figures sway only small numbers of voters, recent history demonstrates that small margins can make a big difference. When George W. Bush beat John Kerry in Ohio in 2004, the last time the state went Republican, he did it by just over 100,000 votes. And when Bush was declared Florida’s victor over Al Gore in 2000, the margin was so tight that some Democrats are still arguing over the result 16 years later.

The challenge for Trump is starkly apparent in Ohio, where insufficient Republican turnout in 2012 (and robust Democratic turnout) helped President Barack Obama romp to victory over Mitt Romney, even though Romney won independents in the state.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15688 Posts
June 02 2016 19:53 GMT
#78513
On June 03 2016 04:24 Introvert wrote:
I must say, I'm surprised Ryan held out as long as he did.

Their statisticians showed a 3rd party isn't viable. I think that's all it comes down to lol
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21675 Posts
June 02 2016 19:57 GMT
#78514


Since people talked about it without providing the story itself.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 02 2016 19:58 GMT
#78515
I'm sure that Trump made Ryan a deal that he couldn't refuse.
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
June 02 2016 19:59 GMT
#78516
Has the House GOP announced a new agenda already? Because "do nothing but express repeatedly and staunchly to be against anything that can be vaguely associated with obama" for sure won't cut it as an agenda once a new president is voted in.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 02 2016 20:00 GMT
#78517
I found Ryan's oped interesting, it shows he's supporting trump, but it's a far cry from a full on endorsement. A well done hedge.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 20:06:19
June 02 2016 20:05 GMT
#78518
On June 03 2016 04:58 xDaunt wrote:
I'm sure that Trump made Ryan a deal that he couldn't refuse.

Nah, it's a relatively easy way for Ryan to share in Trump's spotlight while playing up the big man status of the speaker position. I bet the party had more to do with it
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 02 2016 20:07 GMT
#78519
On June 03 2016 04:59 puerk wrote:
Has the House GOP announced a new agenda already? Because "do nothing but express repeatedly and staunchly to be against anything that can be vaguely associated with obama" for sure won't cut it as an agenda once a new president is voted in.

The platforms for the parties are announced at the conventions. But you might see something similar, but you replace Obama with Clinton and keep talking about repealing the ACA. And tax cuts targeted at the rich, I mean Job Creators.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15688 Posts
June 02 2016 20:24 GMT
#78520
Watching the Mexican wall be presented as a policy position of a political party is going to be amazing.
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