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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3927

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13926 Posts
June 02 2016 20:45 GMT
#78521
I think that the whole thing was to construct a "coming to Jesus" moment for all the old holdouts who wanted on the trump bandwagon now but had previously been against him. It got a ton of media that it wouldn't have had if he had just rolled over for the nominee.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 02 2016 20:54 GMT
#78522
On June 03 2016 05:45 Sermokala wrote:
I think that the whole thing was to construct a "coming to Jesus" moment for all the old holdouts who wanted on the trump bandwagon now but had previously been against him. It got a ton of media that it wouldn't have had if he had just rolled over for the nominee.

Yeah, I have no doubt that the timeline was hashed out when Ryan and Trump met 2-3 weeks ago to maximize optics.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 02 2016 21:25 GMT
#78523
At least 33 cities across 17 US states have used water testing “cheats” that potentially conceal dangerous levels of lead, a Guardian investigation launched in the wake of the toxic water crisis in Flint, Michigan, has found.

Of these cities, 21 used the same water testing methods that prompted criminal charges against three government employees in Flint over their role in one of the worst public health disasters in US history.

The crisis that gripped Flint is an extreme case where a cost-cutting decision to divert the city’s water supply to a polluted river was compounded by a poor testing regime and delays by environmental officials to respond to the health emergency.

The Guardian’s investigation demonstrates that similar testing regimes were in place in cities including Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Detroit and Milwaukee.

On Thursday, the Hagens Berman law firm filed a class action lawsuit against the city of Philadelphia, alleging that water department testing protocols “temporarily hide” lead contamination and that the city does not test enough high-risk homes.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 22:27:59
June 02 2016 22:25 GMT
#78524
I've been reading quite a number of articles recently making the comparison to the rise of fascism and "this is our Weimar moment" articles. I find them premature and hysterical, but I do concede there are some number of similarities that can be made between Trump, his political ideology (or lack thereof) and movement, to the core definition of fascism.

Also, http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 02 2016 22:29 GMT
#78525
Trump is more Mussolini than anything else. He also reminds me of McCarthy, with his endless fear mongering. And then there is that fake quote: "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 22:43:32
June 02 2016 22:38 GMT
#78526
I find the fascism/Europe analogies to be a total distraction. That he plays on racial fears is bad on its own without analogies to the past. Moreover, Trump's alleged ideology is such a mess that comparing to actual fascist thinkers is insulting to the men of the past. Trump can't go a week without running right back over what he had previously said. HRC didn't need to make distracting fascism comparisons to rip him apart on foreign policy today.

On his best of days, Trump could be Berlusconi. On his usual days, he is just a lying child getting upset at the very coverage that made him famous.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 02 2016 22:40 GMT
#78527
Agreed. Think their are way more compelling argument against Trump, such as him being a huge man baby and trying defraud people with fake degrees. The discussion about fascism is mostly about how the US is not magically immune and fascism won't arrive in jack boots.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 22:44:17
June 02 2016 22:43 GMT
#78528
it's the machismo and authoritarianism that invokes the comparisons. Also Trumps anti-exceptionalism and collective self loathing, which is quite dangerous.
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
June 02 2016 22:47 GMT
#78529
On June 03 2016 07:29 Plansix wrote:
endless fear mongering

Time to start imagining President Trump in the Situation Room.

Source is hillaryclinton.com
© Current year.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5584 Posts
June 02 2016 22:52 GMT
#78530
On June 03 2016 07:43 Nyxisto wrote:
Also Trumps anti-exceptionalism and collective self loathing

Can you elaborate about these characteristics?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 22:55:59
June 02 2016 22:54 GMT
#78531
Well all I hear Trump saying is that America is failing and that dramatic things need to happen so that the country isn't going down. Usually I'd expect an American conservative to say that America simply is great by virtue of being America, which obviously disables politicians from doing very dramatic things and puts trust in the population. What Trumps is doing is enabling strong collective action.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9195 Posts
June 02 2016 23:00 GMT
#78532
I could imagine a Trump supporter saying that America is great now but Trump can make it GREAT again
You're now breathing manually
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
June 02 2016 23:12 GMT
#78533
On June 03 2016 07:54 Nyxisto wrote:
Well all I hear Trump saying is that America is failing and that dramatic things need to happen so that the country isn't going down. Usually I'd expect an American conservative to say that America simply is great by virtue of being America, which obviously disables politicians from doing very dramatic things and puts trust in the population. What Trumps is doing is enabling strong collective action.

The labor participation rate dropped 3.3% in the last 10 years (about 4% since NAFTA as signed). Decent number of people removing themselves from the workplace or looking for work.
© Current year.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 23:29:41
June 02 2016 23:21 GMT
#78534
When Trump is saying that China is more clever than the US or that Russia is winning then he's creating the image of an existential threat to the US, it's not about technocratic issues of the labour market or anything. His platform would also work if the labour participation rate would have gone up by 3.3% . It's about immigrants at the border, terrorists on the inside and so on and everyone being out there to get you. Objectively this is obviously ridiculous, the US aren't at the brink of collapse.

But that's also what resembles the fascist stuff a lot. All of these movements came out of an atmosphere of inferiority and paranoia.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
June 02 2016 23:31 GMT
#78535
Trumps rhetoric hits most of the Fascist check marks. Having said that, it isn't a constructive word to use in conversation. As a trigger word, his supporters will just flock to denouncing the term, shifting the debate away from specific reasons Trump has no business being President.
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 23:59:14
June 02 2016 23:39 GMT
#78536
On June 03 2016 07:52 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2016 07:43 Nyxisto wrote:
Also Trumps anti-exceptionalism and collective self loathing

Can you elaborate about these characteristics?


The 100-plus times Donald Trump assured us that America is a laughingstock

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/27/the-100-plus-times-donald-trump-has-assured-us-the-united-states-is-a-laughingstock/

EDIT: note that this is over 20 something years. Donald has been consistent in his poo pooing of American success.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
June 02 2016 23:56 GMT
#78537
he didn't mention canada
© Current year.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 03 2016 00:06 GMT
#78538
That's because he thinks it's a state that doesn't have a primary.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5584 Posts
June 03 2016 00:09 GMT
#78539
On June 03 2016 08:21 Nyxisto wrote:
When Trump is saying that China is more clever than the US or that Russia is winning then he's creating the image of an existential threat to the US, it's not about technocratic issues of the labour market or anything. His platform would also work if the labour participation rate would have gone up by 3.3% . It's about immigrants at the border, terrorists on the inside and so on and everyone being out there to get you. Objectively this is obviously ridiculous, the US aren't at the brink of collapse.

But that's also what resembles the fascist stuff a lot. All of these movements came out of an atmosphere of inferiority and paranoia.

I don't see the self-loathing or anti-exceptionalism in what you describe. Self-pity would be closer if you wanted to put it that way. I don't know what sense you're using exceptionalism, but it seems like if Trump is saying he wants the country to be great, that wouldn't be anti-exceptionalist.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-03 00:37:06
June 03 2016 00:30 GMT
#78540
On June 03 2016 07:38 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
I find the fascism/Europe analogies to be a total distraction. That he plays on racial fears is bad on its own without analogies to the past. Moreover, Trump's alleged ideology is such a mess that comparing to actual fascist thinkers is insulting to the men of the past. Trump can't go a week without running right back over what he had previously said. HRC didn't need to make distracting fascism comparisons to rip him apart on foreign policy today.

On his best of days, Trump could be Berlusconi. On his usual days, he is just a lying child getting upset at the very coverage that made him famous.

Whether or not Trump himself is a "true" fascist (or just a fascist like opportunist) is not as relevant as the structure and composition of his supporters: white men from the middle or lower class, who fear for their economic status in the future, as well as huge support from chauvinist groups. The ingredients for a proper facist movement are there.
TL+ Member
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