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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3623

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
April 17 2016 03:07 GMT
#72441
Too bad if that's the case, as blindly supporting something is never a good sign.

On the other hand his chance of gaining delegation in NY was a long shot anyway so might as well use it to push some agenda.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 17 2016 03:11 GMT
#72442
On April 17 2016 09:35 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2016 09:24 ragz_gt wrote:
Not saying if the statement is true or not, but "YEAH WELL BERNIE SUCKS MORE" is a perfectly valid argument when it's choosing one of them

On April 17 2016 07:27 Velr wrote:
Breaking up companies so big that their, purely profit driven, fuckups could treaten whole countries can't be a bad thing.


You can argue how but if you argue anything more your just waiting for m.a.d.


There are legit reasons why big bank can be beneficial. It gives them the leverage to compete internationally. Unless US can also break up Deutsche bank, HSBC, or any of the big bank in China (all which are bigger than any US bank), it is a problem.


This argument doesn't stand on its own. If someone tells you that banks that are too big to fail cause a danger to society, you can't just say that it allows them to be competitive. That's like saying that doping products are fine because it allows athletes to be competitive. You recognize that the argument in this analogy is fallacious because it's acknowledged that doping is a problem in sports. In the same way, unless you demonstrate that these banks aren't too big to fail (or that being too big to fail isn't a problem), in other words unless you address the argument that is made, then being competitive doesn't hold weight as an argument.


But the size of the banks is not the issue, the issue is that every bank does the same thing because the incentives push them all to do the same thing. Some of those incentives are regulatory, some are obviously just part of capitalism. There is, actually, no reason to think the US banks are too large. Large and consolidated banks and FIs in the US outperformed midsize banks during both 2008 and S&L crises.

The last time the US truly had a "big" bank JP Morgan saved the US from a recession in 1907. Meanwhile, the institution that was created because politicians were pissed because Morgan had too much power, the Federal Reserve, is generally thought to have had a large hand in making the Great Depression into the prolonged miserable situation that it was.
Freeeeeeedom
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 17 2016 03:21 GMT
#72443
big banks do get some extra implicit subsidy in the presumption of rescue leading to lower borrowing cost etc. it's not a precise measure though.

there's also the libor thing
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13925 Posts
April 17 2016 03:26 GMT
#72444
Its hard because theres a point where the company will get big enough that it can effect whole counties and make legitimate profit off off some pretty heinous things. Us oil companies have to be partially so profitable because they are competing with less competitive state run oil companies, but at the same time if they were allowed to operate in say brazil I wouldn't be too shocked if the country simply destabilized when the favelian gangs get heavy weapons.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 17 2016 03:26 GMT
#72445
Warren Buffett’s MidAmerican Energy Company plans to invest $3.6 billion in what would become the nation’s largest wind energy facility.

At 2,000 megawatts, the proposed Wind XI project would overshadow California’s 1,548-megawatt Alta Wind Energy Center — currently the largest wind facility in the U.S. and second largest in the world.

MidAmerican Energy, which serves 752,000 electric customers in four midwestern states, said Thursday that the massive investment would provide Iowa with a cleaner energy future and be a huge step toward the company’s 100 percent renewable energy goal.

“We have a bold vision for our energy future,” company CEO and president Bill Fehrman said in a statement. “We don’t know of another U.S. energy provider that has staked out this 100 percent position. Our customers want more renewable energy, and we couldn’t agree more.”

Fehrman added the project will bring the company “within striking distance” of its renewable vision.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
April 17 2016 03:28 GMT
#72446
On April 17 2016 12:07 ragz_gt wrote:
Too bad if that's the case, as blindly supporting something is never a good sign.

I don't think it's blind support - I think it might just be that they have different priorities. A lot of them still feel that the Jewish diaspora and that they should be ready to move countries ASAP if the political climate turns against them. In East Europe, a lot of them are very used to moving between countries (a lot of the anti-USSR sentiment stems from the fact that they weren't allowed to go West) and brought that piece of culture with them to the West. And while they don't live in Israel for any number of reasons (e.g. would rather not live in a nation in a state of perpetual war, US is currently a much wealthier nation), their loyalties often do lie primarily with their cultural homeland.

Not all are like this, but it is definitely an overwhelming majority.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
April 17 2016 03:31 GMT
#72447
On April 17 2016 12:21 oneofthem wrote:
big banks do get some extra implicit subsidy in the presumption of rescue leading to lower borrowing cost etc. it's not a precise measure though.

there's also the libor thing


Yes the "libor thing"

Late last week, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation initiated legal action against 16 of the world’s largest banks for their roles in manipulating benchmark LIBOR rates. The FDIC filed the lawsuit on behalf of 38 banks which went bankrupt at the peak of the downturn in 2008, as a considerable part of the losses for these banks were incurred on interest-rate derivative products sold to them by the bigger banks. As the bigger banks were in a position to influence the benchmark rates in a manner suitable to them when the crisis hit, the losses on these products were exaggerated for the failed banks, including Washington Mutual and IndyMac. The lawsuit names U.S.-based banks Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and Citigroup, as well as other globally diversified banking groups as well as the British Bankers’ Association which oversaw the LIBOR fixing process at the time.


Source

Hmm those banks sound familiar, like they have been paying large amounts of money to someone to influence the rules those same banks have to operate under...

Also, while I mention the FDIC, they make AIG look like a soundly resourced institution by comparison.

Source

If any of the too big to fail banks went down (without somehow dragging everyone else down too) there wouldn't be enough just to cover that single bank. It's like having an empty fire extinguisher (that you refuse to acknowledge is empty) for peace of mind.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 17 2016 04:16 GMT
#72448
Republicans over the past seven years have come to view Barack Obama not just as an ideological enemy but as a “dictator”—an accusation hurled most recently by both Chris Christie and Glenn Beck—a president who has unconstitutionally abused his executive power with an array of unilateral actions.

But Republicans are hardly passive victims of an overweening executive; they are, in fact, paying for their own unilateral surrender of power. The GOP-dominated Congress has sought to weaken and undermine Obama and instead has achieved the opposite. Unable to pass significant legislation after the Affordable Care Act, the Obama White House filled the vacuum by creative use of executive authority, setting a potentially risky precedent for the future balance between the branches but spurred, ironically, by the very opponents who were trying to contain him.

Out of anti-Obama pique, Congress has also relinquished much of its primary tool, the power of the purse. Congress and the White House have not agreed on a budget since 2009, and only at the end of 2015 was an actual budget passed by the House. So while it is technically true that even the most controversial military programs of the Obama years have had de facto congressional support, Congress has failed to use its constitutional control of the budget as a check on executive action.

Some critics also currently speculate that the refusal by most Republican senators to even consider the new nominee for the Supreme Court could lead to an attempt to simply place an appointee on the court. Obama could use the novel interpretation that nothing in the Constitution says the Senate must actually confirm a nominee by vote and that failing to vote could be construed as a tacit and passive approval of a nominee. Were that to happen, it would surely be condemned by Republicans as a naked power grab, but it could also set another precedent for the current imbalance of power between the executive and legislative branches.

Thus, the long-run effect of Obama enmity has been to enable this president to expand the power of the executive branch, perhaps permanently. Not only did Republicans fail to contain Obama, they have enabled him to become one of the most powerful presidents ever, and certainly the most powerful non-wartime president the country has ever known as well as the most active and consequential “lame duck” president in memory.

When it comes to the power game, whether or not Obama has been making good or bad decisions is beside the point. He has won, while the GOP has been scoring on its own goal for the past seven years.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
April 17 2016 04:50 GMT
#72449
Some of the GOP bitch about an abuse of authority by the president but imo their staunch obstructionist stance is just as abusive to their authority as any Obama executive action.
Never Knows Best.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-17 05:01:08
April 17 2016 04:58 GMT
#72450
On April 17 2016 13:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Republicans over the past seven years have come to view Barack Obama not just as an ideological enemy but as a “dictator”—an accusation hurled most recently by both Chris Christie and Glenn Beck—a president who has unconstitutionally abused his executive power with an array of unilateral actions.

But Republicans are hardly passive victims of an overweening executive; they are, in fact, paying for their own unilateral surrender of power. The GOP-dominated Congress has sought to weaken and undermine Obama and instead has achieved the opposite. Unable to pass significant legislation after the Affordable Care Act, the Obama White House filled the vacuum by creative use of executive authority, setting a potentially risky precedent for the future balance between the branches but spurred, ironically, by the very opponents who were trying to contain him.

Out of anti-Obama pique, Congress has also relinquished much of its primary tool, the power of the purse. Congress and the White House have not agreed on a budget since 2009, and only at the end of 2015 was an actual budget passed by the House. So while it is technically true that even the most controversial military programs of the Obama years have had de facto congressional support, Congress has failed to use its constitutional control of the budget as a check on executive action.

Some critics also currently speculate that the refusal by most Republican senators to even consider the new nominee for the Supreme Court could lead to an attempt to simply place an appointee on the court. Obama could use the novel interpretation that nothing in the Constitution says the Senate must actually confirm a nominee by vote and that failing to vote could be construed as a tacit and passive approval of a nominee. Were that to happen, it would surely be condemned by Republicans as a naked power grab, but it could also set another precedent for the current imbalance of power between the executive and legislative branches.

Thus, the long-run effect of Obama enmity has been to enable this president to expand the power of the executive branch, perhaps permanently. Not only did Republicans fail to contain Obama, they have enabled him to become one of the most powerful presidents ever, and certainly the most powerful non-wartime president the country has ever known as well as the most active and consequential “lame duck” president in memory.

When it comes to the power game, whether or not Obama has been making good or bad decisions is beside the point. He has won, while the GOP has been scoring on its own goal for the past seven years.


Source


roflmao.

"Congress exerted some of its constitutional authority. Therefore Obama took executive action to new heights. It's all the Republicans' fault." Some seriously faulty logic.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
April 17 2016 05:12 GMT
#72451
On April 17 2016 13:58 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2016 13:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Republicans over the past seven years have come to view Barack Obama not just as an ideological enemy but as a “dictator”—an accusation hurled most recently by both Chris Christie and Glenn Beck—a president who has unconstitutionally abused his executive power with an array of unilateral actions.

But Republicans are hardly passive victims of an overweening executive; they are, in fact, paying for their own unilateral surrender of power. The GOP-dominated Congress has sought to weaken and undermine Obama and instead has achieved the opposite. Unable to pass significant legislation after the Affordable Care Act, the Obama White House filled the vacuum by creative use of executive authority, setting a potentially risky precedent for the future balance between the branches but spurred, ironically, by the very opponents who were trying to contain him.

Out of anti-Obama pique, Congress has also relinquished much of its primary tool, the power of the purse. Congress and the White House have not agreed on a budget since 2009, and only at the end of 2015 was an actual budget passed by the House. So while it is technically true that even the most controversial military programs of the Obama years have had de facto congressional support, Congress has failed to use its constitutional control of the budget as a check on executive action.

Some critics also currently speculate that the refusal by most Republican senators to even consider the new nominee for the Supreme Court could lead to an attempt to simply place an appointee on the court. Obama could use the novel interpretation that nothing in the Constitution says the Senate must actually confirm a nominee by vote and that failing to vote could be construed as a tacit and passive approval of a nominee. Were that to happen, it would surely be condemned by Republicans as a naked power grab, but it could also set another precedent for the current imbalance of power between the executive and legislative branches.

Thus, the long-run effect of Obama enmity has been to enable this president to expand the power of the executive branch, perhaps permanently. Not only did Republicans fail to contain Obama, they have enabled him to become one of the most powerful presidents ever, and certainly the most powerful non-wartime president the country has ever known as well as the most active and consequential “lame duck” president in memory.

When it comes to the power game, whether or not Obama has been making good or bad decisions is beside the point. He has won, while the GOP has been scoring on its own goal for the past seven years.


Source


roflmao.

"Congress exerted some of its constitutional authority. Therefore Obama took executive action to new heights. It's all the Republicans' fault." Some seriously faulty logic.


Well if you know your opposition is irrational, incompetent, and dictatorial (as Republicans insist he is) they do share the responsibility of not recognizing that's what someone like that would do.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 17 2016 05:25 GMT
#72452
The truth of that is that the Congress did fail to exercise the power of the purse. This is the tea party/Cruz complaint. Not only did they fail to ever threaten it legitimately, they also pre-emptively surrendered that ground.

Realistically, however, the piece is wrong because Congress can easily re-assert its powers, the problem is they have no will to do so and are unlikely to have such will in the near future.
Freeeeeeedom
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
April 17 2016 06:07 GMT
#72453
On April 17 2016 11:42 oneofthem wrote:
jewish people do.

I don't.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-17 06:43:12
April 17 2016 06:41 GMT
#72454
On April 17 2016 14:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2016 13:58 Introvert wrote:
On April 17 2016 13:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Republicans over the past seven years have come to view Barack Obama not just as an ideological enemy but as a “dictator”—an accusation hurled most recently by both Chris Christie and Glenn Beck—a president who has unconstitutionally abused his executive power with an array of unilateral actions.

But Republicans are hardly passive victims of an overweening executive; they are, in fact, paying for their own unilateral surrender of power. The GOP-dominated Congress has sought to weaken and undermine Obama and instead has achieved the opposite. Unable to pass significant legislation after the Affordable Care Act, the Obama White House filled the vacuum by creative use of executive authority, setting a potentially risky precedent for the future balance between the branches but spurred, ironically, by the very opponents who were trying to contain him.

Out of anti-Obama pique, Congress has also relinquished much of its primary tool, the power of the purse. Congress and the White House have not agreed on a budget since 2009, and only at the end of 2015 was an actual budget passed by the House. So while it is technically true that even the most controversial military programs of the Obama years have had de facto congressional support, Congress has failed to use its constitutional control of the budget as a check on executive action.

Some critics also currently speculate that the refusal by most Republican senators to even consider the new nominee for the Supreme Court could lead to an attempt to simply place an appointee on the court. Obama could use the novel interpretation that nothing in the Constitution says the Senate must actually confirm a nominee by vote and that failing to vote could be construed as a tacit and passive approval of a nominee. Were that to happen, it would surely be condemned by Republicans as a naked power grab, but it could also set another precedent for the current imbalance of power between the executive and legislative branches.

Thus, the long-run effect of Obama enmity has been to enable this president to expand the power of the executive branch, perhaps permanently. Not only did Republicans fail to contain Obama, they have enabled him to become one of the most powerful presidents ever, and certainly the most powerful non-wartime president the country has ever known as well as the most active and consequential “lame duck” president in memory.

When it comes to the power game, whether or not Obama has been making good or bad decisions is beside the point. He has won, while the GOP has been scoring on its own goal for the past seven years.


Source


roflmao.

"Congress exerted some of its constitutional authority. Therefore Obama took executive action to new heights. It's all the Republicans' fault." Some seriously faulty logic.


Well if you know your opposition is irrational, incompetent, and dictatorial (as Republicans insist he is) they do share the responsibility of not recognizing that's what someone like that would do.


That doesn't make sense. They are exercising (to a modest degree, considering their options) some congressional power. It's on Obama, not the GOP, to respect the separation of powers. Of course Obama has appointed oodles of judges now that will back most of his assertions. So we'll eventually get the point where Congress is irrelevant anyway. Such fun times.

Perhaps in a roundabout way you have a point. They should be more aggressive with reining him in.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
April 17 2016 07:26 GMT
#72455
On April 17 2016 15:41 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2016 14:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 17 2016 13:58 Introvert wrote:
On April 17 2016 13:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Republicans over the past seven years have come to view Barack Obama not just as an ideological enemy but as a “dictator”—an accusation hurled most recently by both Chris Christie and Glenn Beck—a president who has unconstitutionally abused his executive power with an array of unilateral actions.

But Republicans are hardly passive victims of an overweening executive; they are, in fact, paying for their own unilateral surrender of power. The GOP-dominated Congress has sought to weaken and undermine Obama and instead has achieved the opposite. Unable to pass significant legislation after the Affordable Care Act, the Obama White House filled the vacuum by creative use of executive authority, setting a potentially risky precedent for the future balance between the branches but spurred, ironically, by the very opponents who were trying to contain him.

Out of anti-Obama pique, Congress has also relinquished much of its primary tool, the power of the purse. Congress and the White House have not agreed on a budget since 2009, and only at the end of 2015 was an actual budget passed by the House. So while it is technically true that even the most controversial military programs of the Obama years have had de facto congressional support, Congress has failed to use its constitutional control of the budget as a check on executive action.

Some critics also currently speculate that the refusal by most Republican senators to even consider the new nominee for the Supreme Court could lead to an attempt to simply place an appointee on the court. Obama could use the novel interpretation that nothing in the Constitution says the Senate must actually confirm a nominee by vote and that failing to vote could be construed as a tacit and passive approval of a nominee. Were that to happen, it would surely be condemned by Republicans as a naked power grab, but it could also set another precedent for the current imbalance of power between the executive and legislative branches.

Thus, the long-run effect of Obama enmity has been to enable this president to expand the power of the executive branch, perhaps permanently. Not only did Republicans fail to contain Obama, they have enabled him to become one of the most powerful presidents ever, and certainly the most powerful non-wartime president the country has ever known as well as the most active and consequential “lame duck” president in memory.

When it comes to the power game, whether or not Obama has been making good or bad decisions is beside the point. He has won, while the GOP has been scoring on its own goal for the past seven years.


Source


roflmao.

"Congress exerted some of its constitutional authority. Therefore Obama took executive action to new heights. It's all the Republicans' fault." Some seriously faulty logic.


Well if you know your opposition is irrational, incompetent, and dictatorial (as Republicans insist he is) they do share the responsibility of not recognizing that's what someone like that would do.


That doesn't make sense. They are exercising (to a modest degree, considering their options) some congressional power. It's on Obama, not the GOP, to respect the separation of powers. Of course Obama has appointed oodles of judges now that will back most of his assertions. So we'll eventually get the point where Congress is irrelevant anyway. Such fun times.

Perhaps in a roundabout way you have a point. They should be more aggressive with reining him in.


Either way one branch would be suppressing the other, if Obama did nothing then congress would be holding him down through refusing to work with him. Obama didn't stay passive forever and you can tell he eventually got really pissed at congressional republicans over the years. Him pushing back against congress's willful inaction isn't a sign of a dictatorship. The courts are there also and his enemies have tried their best to use them to also stymie his efforts.
Never Knows Best.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-17 07:36:22
April 17 2016 07:34 GMT
#72456
On April 17 2016 16:26 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2016 15:41 Introvert wrote:
On April 17 2016 14:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 17 2016 13:58 Introvert wrote:
On April 17 2016 13:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Republicans over the past seven years have come to view Barack Obama not just as an ideological enemy but as a “dictator”—an accusation hurled most recently by both Chris Christie and Glenn Beck—a president who has unconstitutionally abused his executive power with an array of unilateral actions.

But Republicans are hardly passive victims of an overweening executive; they are, in fact, paying for their own unilateral surrender of power. The GOP-dominated Congress has sought to weaken and undermine Obama and instead has achieved the opposite. Unable to pass significant legislation after the Affordable Care Act, the Obama White House filled the vacuum by creative use of executive authority, setting a potentially risky precedent for the future balance between the branches but spurred, ironically, by the very opponents who were trying to contain him.

Out of anti-Obama pique, Congress has also relinquished much of its primary tool, the power of the purse. Congress and the White House have not agreed on a budget since 2009, and only at the end of 2015 was an actual budget passed by the House. So while it is technically true that even the most controversial military programs of the Obama years have had de facto congressional support, Congress has failed to use its constitutional control of the budget as a check on executive action.

Some critics also currently speculate that the refusal by most Republican senators to even consider the new nominee for the Supreme Court could lead to an attempt to simply place an appointee on the court. Obama could use the novel interpretation that nothing in the Constitution says the Senate must actually confirm a nominee by vote and that failing to vote could be construed as a tacit and passive approval of a nominee. Were that to happen, it would surely be condemned by Republicans as a naked power grab, but it could also set another precedent for the current imbalance of power between the executive and legislative branches.

Thus, the long-run effect of Obama enmity has been to enable this president to expand the power of the executive branch, perhaps permanently. Not only did Republicans fail to contain Obama, they have enabled him to become one of the most powerful presidents ever, and certainly the most powerful non-wartime president the country has ever known as well as the most active and consequential “lame duck” president in memory.

When it comes to the power game, whether or not Obama has been making good or bad decisions is beside the point. He has won, while the GOP has been scoring on its own goal for the past seven years.


Source


roflmao.

"Congress exerted some of its constitutional authority. Therefore Obama took executive action to new heights. It's all the Republicans' fault." Some seriously faulty logic.


Well if you know your opposition is irrational, incompetent, and dictatorial (as Republicans insist he is) they do share the responsibility of not recognizing that's what someone like that would do.


That doesn't make sense. They are exercising (to a modest degree, considering their options) some congressional power. It's on Obama, not the GOP, to respect the separation of powers. Of course Obama has appointed oodles of judges now that will back most of his assertions. So we'll eventually get the point where Congress is irrelevant anyway. Such fun times.

Perhaps in a roundabout way you have a point. They should be more aggressive with reining him in.


Either way one branch would be suppressing the other, if Obama did nothing then congress would be holding him down through refusing to work with him. Obama didn't stay passive forever and you can tell he eventually got really pissed at congressional republicans over the years. Him pushing back against congress's willful inaction isn't a sign of a dictatorship. The courts are there also and his enemies have tried their best to use them to also stymie his efforts.


The courts have only stopped his most absurd attempts, and even then they are weak. The Supreme Court's ruling on the appointments clause is a perfect example if this.

And there is a difference. Congress is not obliged to act or pass any version of what Obama wants. That doesn't give him the right to do it himself. I'm just glad that it seems more people are catching on to the fact that what Obama is doing is not normal.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-17 07:40:32
April 17 2016 07:38 GMT
#72457
And what Congress has been doing is? Congress isn't obliged to pass what he wants but they also are not supposed to actively try to undermine him either.
Never Knows Best.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
April 17 2016 07:45 GMT
#72458
On April 17 2016 16:38 Slaughter wrote:
And what Congress has been doing is? Congress isn't obliged to pass what he wants but they also are not supposed to actively try to undermine him either.


Says who? That's not in the Constitution. The executive was designed as the weakest branch, the legislative the strongest. I'm not even sure what you mean by undermine. If Congress doesn't pass the law, you don't get to do it.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-17 07:54:14
April 17 2016 07:53 GMT
#72459
On April 17 2016 16:45 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2016 16:38 Slaughter wrote:
And what Congress has been doing is? Congress isn't obliged to pass what he wants but they also are not supposed to actively try to undermine him either.


Says who? That's not in the Constitution. The executive was designed as the weakest branch, the legislative the strongest. I'm not even sure what you mean by undermine. If Congress doesn't pass the law, you don't get to do it.


Then why the fuck do we make such big deal out of the policies of the president and they put so much effort to show us plans they have? They influence and set the agenda heavily for the legislative branch. Idgaf what the wording of the constitution is in this case, we haven't been strictly sticking to it for many years because its so vague and outdated. In practice it matters.
Never Knows Best.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
April 17 2016 07:59 GMT
#72460
On April 17 2016 16:53 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2016 16:45 Introvert wrote:
On April 17 2016 16:38 Slaughter wrote:
And what Congress has been doing is? Congress isn't obliged to pass what he wants but they also are not supposed to actively try to undermine him either.


Says who? That's not in the Constitution. The executive was designed as the weakest branch, the legislative the strongest. I'm not even sure what you mean by undermine. If Congress doesn't pass the law, you don't get to do it.


Then why the fuck do we make such big deal out of the policies of the president and they put so much effort to show us plans they have? They influence and set the agenda heavily for the legislative branch. Idgaf what the wording of the constitution is in this case, we haven't been strictly sticking to it for many years because its so vague and outdated. In practice it matters.


And Obama is setting new bounds, while Congress is not. But most people don't are, so it doesn't surprise me. But to blame Congress for Obama's actions is asinine.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
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