In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Would you argue "women are objectified" is a false statement?
I don't even talk "US", i talk "western world".
I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I was under the impression that i asked wei2coolman for his opinion, rather than engaging in a conversation with DarkPlasmaBall.
I mean anyone can be objectified, but in America, you can at least get paid a fuck ton if you choose to be objectified.
Except for the other 99% of women who are involuntarily objectified and not successful actresses or models or porn stars. They don't even make a fuck ounce more, let alone a fuck ton.
As opposed to the men who are involuntarily objectified?
Do you believe that both sexes have it just as bad when it comes to sexual objectification and being treated equally and fairly? I think there's a pretty strong double standard that men have historically been treated a lot better and less superficially than women.
While that is true, it's not as easy as you make it sound.
For one, not every woman shares that opinion. I assume, you know that and that being the reason why you said "99% of women who are involuntarily objectified" instead of "99% of women".
And no, it's not a double standard actually. It's what makes feminism (or the "fighters for it") so obnoxious. Men had it better, yes. That doesn't mean that they need to have it worse. Or that, only because it's "a smaller portion", it's not noteworthy.
Do i think things need to improve? Definitely. Do i think that everything feminists claim need to be done?
Hell no. In fact, my soon to be wife disagrees with quite a lot of feministic notions.
The very first point I made was that even the feminist movement has extremists who are anti-male, thus muddying the waters for the larger, general, sincere movement for sexual fairness and equality. You and I are already in complete agreement that those crazy extremists fuck things up by expecting men to start being dragged down instead of finding ways to lift women up. However, the vast majority of feminists are not anti-male. So yes, there are plenty of double standards between the sexes (as mentioned before), and no, I'm not going to get into a semantics argument with you over your focus on the vocal minority of feminist extremists when the overall movement is a positive and useful and necessary one for half our population
On March 16 2016 12:14 oBlade wrote: [quote] I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
The above published research article goes into a lot of depth on the subject. It really does harm and negatively influence women.
*insert same argument with men instead* You could literally make the same argument...
This is just too easy:
Have you watched those old He-Man cartoons recently? I'm pretty fucking sure that he's gay.
No and I don't remember. Well, he is a jacked dinasour rider with a huge sword homosexual, then.
Watch DBZ characters, they are all full of muscles and good qualities. I'm ok with role models.
Kids should have something to look up to. Not only jacked cartoons, but athletes, business man, book writers, and even gasp, politicians. Instead of Jersey Shore and the Kardashians.
Would you argue "women are objectified" is a false statement?
I don't even talk "US", i talk "western world".
I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
On March 16 2016 12:14 oBlade wrote: [quote] I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
On March 16 2016 12:14 oBlade wrote: [quote] I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
Business likes Hillary cuz she's a stable choice. Believe it or not, business is more than high finance and the Fortune 500. She'll push and likely get some modest but effective reforms, but generally she's viewed by those with a lot of skin in the game as the best steward of the economy. Wall Street and corporate America (to use campaign speak) do not necessarily have to succeed at the detriment of small business and the middle class.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
On March 16 2016 12:14 oBlade wrote: [quote] I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
The above published research article goes into a lot of depth on the subject. It really does harm and negatively influence women.
*insert same argument with men instead* You could literally make the same argument...
This is just too easy:
Have you watched those old He-Man cartoons recently? I'm pretty fucking sure that he's gay.
Also he is the embodiment of male power fantasy. While Barbie is all about her friends and Ken, rather than crushing her enemies beneath her high heel. Children toys are so filled with male empowerment and convincing girls their self worth is based on friendship and how attractive they are.
On March 16 2016 12:22 oBlade wrote: [quote] Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
The above published research article goes into a lot of depth on the subject. It really does harm and negatively influence women.
That's the single one thing that i'd say "men" and "boys" are struggling with equally.
And not just since yesteryear, it has always been like that.
Never watched a movie where people cheered because the acne-riddled nerd got the girl, rather than the sportsdude?
Ever watched a movie with an acne-riddled girl? Yeah... me either.
Not entirely sure what you're trying to argue.
That men/boys don't struggle with "not being pretty enough"?
He's correctly pointing out that men are pigs when it comes to the visual appearance of women.
I never ever disputed that.
What i'm saying is that there's no difference the other way around either.
I disagree. Women are far less visually-oriented when it comes to finding partners than men are.
I think they are just less open about it. All of my female friend are very open about guys they think are hot enough to fuck. Like super blunt about it.
On March 16 2016 12:22 oBlade wrote: [quote] Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
The above published research article goes into a lot of depth on the subject. It really does harm and negatively influence women.
*insert same argument with men instead* You could literally make the same argument...
This is just too easy:
Have you watched those old He-Man cartoons recently? I'm pretty fucking sure that he's gay.
Also he is the embodiment of male power fantasy. While Barbie is all about her friends and Ken, rather than crushing her enemies beneath her high heel. Children toys are so filled with male empowerment and convincing girls their self worth is based on friendship and how attractive they are.
Am I the only one who's kind of fascinated by the fact that the posters who denigrate Muslims for having an awful attitude towards women seem to think that the U.S. attitude is pretty much fine now?
I mean I'm sure if we translated some Middle Eastern online sites you'd find people saying the exact same thing about the women in their country.
On March 16 2016 12:10 wei2coolman wrote: [quote] Clearly we're all sexist pigs because we have commercials of girls in bikinis with tig ol' bitties in bikinies eating fat burgers.
Would you argue "women are objectified" is a false statement?
I don't even talk "US", i talk "western world".
I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
The above published research article goes into a lot of depth on the subject. It really does harm and negatively influence women.
*insert same argument with men instead* You could literally make the same argument...
This is just too easy:
The difference is, that He-Man's world is fantasy, whereas Barbie's home is the "real world". You can buy pink dresses, you can buy a pink car and live in a pink house with your probably gay husband! But in this world you cannot ride on a green tiger and fight a living skeleton to save your very weird looking friends!
On March 16 2016 12:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
On March 16 2016 12:22 oBlade wrote: [quote] Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
The above published research article goes into a lot of depth on the subject. It really does harm and negatively influence women.
That's the single one thing that i'd say "men" and "boys" are struggling with equally.
And not just since yesteryear, it has always been like that.
Never watched a movie where people cheered because the acne-riddled nerd got the girl, rather than the sportsdude?
Ever watched a movie with an acne-riddled girl? Yeah... me either.
Not entirely sure what you're trying to argue.
That men/boys don't struggle with "not being pretty enough"?
He's correctly pointing out that men are pigs when it comes to the visual appearance of women.
I never ever disputed that.
What i'm saying is that there's no difference the other way around either.
I disagree. Women are far less visually-oriented when it comes to finding partners than men are.
I think you two need to discuss this in more detail in PMs. If you're looking at job applications, a "more attractive" person, whether male or female, is more likely to win when compared to similar candidates, whether the decider is male or female. On the other hand, if you look at sexual behaviour, men are more visual than women (skip the gym, hit the books, gents).
Would you argue "women are objectified" is a false statement?
I don't even talk "US", i talk "western world".
I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I was under the impression that i asked wei2coolman for his opinion, rather than engaging in a conversation with DarkPlasmaBall.
I mean anyone can be objectified, but in America, you can at least get paid a fuck ton if you choose to be objectified.
Except for the other 99% of women who are involuntarily objectified and not successful actresses or models or porn stars. They don't even make a fuck ounce more, let alone a fuck ton.
As opposed to the men who are involuntarily objectified?
Do you believe that both sexes have it just as bad when it comes to sexual objectification and being treated equally and fairly? I think there's a pretty strong double standard that men have historically been treated a lot better and less superficially than women.
Would you argue "women are objectified" is a false statement?
I don't even talk "US", i talk "western world".
I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I was under the impression that i asked wei2coolman for his opinion, rather than engaging in a conversation with DarkPlasmaBall.
I mean anyone can be objectified, but in America, you can at least get paid a fuck ton if you choose to be objectified.
Except for the other 99% of women who are involuntarily objectified and not successful actresses or models or porn stars. They don't even make a fuck ounce more, let alone a fuck ton.
As opposed to the men who are involuntarily objectified?
Do you believe that both sexes have it just as bad when it comes to sexual objectification and being treated equally and fairly? I think there's a pretty strong double standard that men have historically been treated a lot better and less superficially than women.
Yeah because having a higher death rate, die younger, more homeless, higher suicide rate.
Yeah because those statistics don't matter.
Way to sell out your own kind.
...Because wanting women to be treated better means that we can't want men to be treated better too? Holy false dichotomy, batman. This may come as a surprise to you, but I'd kind of like homicide and suicide and poverty rates to all decrease, regardless of the sex of those victims. That doesn't mean I can't also advocate for equal pay or think that someone's a douchebag for catcalling a stranger.
Not wanting to help another person because you don't identify perfectly with them? If you ask me, you're the real sellout.
On March 16 2016 12:16 ticklishmusic wrote: Also, legit terrifying. Not confirmed if it's real, but Bernie people on Reddit doing some crazy manipulation + Show Spoiler +
lol i know where you got this from
lol. That people think that's remotely serious, but the video taped breaking of rules is some sort of a conspiracy, is this campaign in a nutshell.
Deflection is all ya got left it seems.
It's okay, message me for actual factual Hillary chat if you're ever interested.
Lol deflection of what?
If you had any idea what was actually going on on the subreddit you would realize how ridiculous that post was in the first place.
I was just merely pointing out how absurd the post was when compared to the obvious documented manipulation the Clinton campaign has done.
On March 16 2016 12:22 oBlade wrote: [quote] Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
The above published research article goes into a lot of depth on the subject. It really does harm and negatively influence women.
*insert same argument with men instead* You could literally make the same argument...
This is just too easy:
Have you watched those old He-Man cartoons recently? I'm pretty fucking sure that he's gay.
Also he is the embodiment of male power fantasy. While Barbie is all about her friends and Ken, rather than crushing her enemies beneath her high heel. Children toys are so filled with male empowerment and convincing girls their self worth is based on friendship and how attractive they are.
Remember, this is "male empowerment"
No, that is a movie about female empowerment and that men being sexy for women is totally fine. And women being attracted to those men is also fine. I think you missed the point of that movie.
On March 16 2016 12:08 oBlade wrote: [quote] Could I ask what you mean when you say American culture objectifies women?
Clearly we're all sexist pigs because we have commercials of girls in bikinis with tig ol' bitties in bikinies eating fat burgers.
Would you argue "women are objectified" is a false statement?
I don't even talk "US", i talk "western world".
I'm wondering how it's both oppressive to force women to wear certain clothes to make them be modest and oppressive to let women wear and do what they want.
I don't see the correlation between objectified and oppressive.
Do you not think it's an issue then? I think DPB believes it is.
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
On March 16 2016 12:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
I don't follow the second part of that claim- that it's oppressive to let women wear and do what they want. Who said that? It sounds like someone took someone else's (my?) words out of context.
I'm pretty sure that "earning as much as a man makes for the same work" and "having autonomy and control of her own body" would be two things that women would love to be able to do, but still can't.
I'm suggesting that your notion of "objectifies" might actually be based on misconstruing women's choices in a free society as that society oppressing them. I don't believe the other two points qualify as objectification.
Ah, I see. I think that even today, girls are being raised in an environment where the perfect figure/ bust/ looks/ bodies are so ubiquitous that girls frequently don't feel like they have the choice to be anything "flawed". Plastic surgery, airbrushing, photoshop, etc. It puts unreasonable demands on young women, lowers their self-esteem and perceived self-worth, and external objectification leads to inferiority complexes and self-objectification.
There's a lot of good literature on this, actually. Here's a quote from one source:
"According to Fredrickson and Roberts (1997), the cultural practice of sexual objectification leads to self-objectification, which turns into self-surveillance, causing psychological consequences and mental health risks in victims. Sexual objectification means that women are widely seen as sex objects for male sexual pleasure. This objectification occurs in two areas: (1) interpersonal or social encounters, and (2) media exposure. “Interpersonal or social encounters include catcalls, checking out/ staring at, or gazing at women’s bodies, sexual comments, and harassment."
The above published research article goes into a lot of depth on the subject. It really does harm and negatively influence women.
*insert same argument with men instead* You could literally make the same argument...
This is just too easy:
Have you watched those old He-Man cartoons recently? I'm pretty fucking sure that he's gay.
Also he is the embodiment of male power fantasy. While Barbie is all about her friends and Ken, rather than crushing her enemies beneath her high heel. Children toys are so filled with male empowerment and convincing girls their self worth is based on friendship and how attractive they are.
Remember, this is "male empowerment"
No, that is a movie about female empowerment and that men being sexy for women is totally fine. And women being attracted to those men is also fine. I think you missed the point of that movie.
EPT
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