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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 03 2016 14:14 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 14:06 wei2coolman wrote:https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1087016697987364&id=150225644999812Recently there has been media attention regarding an incident where 30-40 youth were removed from the Donald Trump Rally in Valdosta on Monday evening. Several people have made allegations that these youth who were predominantly African American, were removed solely based on their race.
To clear up these allegations, everyone must understand that the Trump Campaign rented the entire PE Complex where the event was held which made the event under Georgia Law a private event. It is true that spectators obtained tickets to the rally but they were free and issued by the Trump Campaign. This means that his campaign staff had the right to decide who can and cannot enter and remain on the premises. That is the law, regardless if I or anyone else likes it or not.
Second, the youths were clearly being disruptive and according to various sources to include law enforcement, the Trump staff, and other spectators who observed the initial actions of the youth, they were being disruptive to include using profanity, well before law enforcement made contact with them. This and only this reason was why they were asked to leave the complex. Further, once the youths were escorted outside the complex, they tried to re-enter by jumping in front of others who were waiting to enter the complex. At that point, law enforcement advised the youth again that they must leave the property. To be clear, the youth at that time could have been arrested but law enforcement decided not to which was one of our initial objectives in the first place; to avoid arresting spectators if possible. Body-camera video of the incident showed the youths were disruptive and used profanity against law enforcement. But even then, no force was used against these youth and they were even given alternate protest locations where they may go.
But to suggest that this incident was racially motivated is unfair and simply not factual. If these students had not had a previous agenda to be disruptive, this incident would not have happened. if anyone wishes to place blame on why this happened, the blame lies solely with the youths; period.
Brian Childress
Chief of Police In regards to the twitter post posted earlier in the thread showing the people being removed from the Trump Rally. But nothing about the white supremacists and others shoving folks and screaming that they are scum?
Sounds like from the post, the "youths" left the rally unharmed, and were trying to re-enter back into the rally...
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On March 03 2016 13:58 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 13:44 oBlade wrote:On March 03 2016 13:35 kwizach wrote:Open Letter on Donald Trump from GOP National Security Leaders
We the undersigned, members of the Republican national security community, represent a broad spectrum of opinion on America’s role in the world and what is necessary to keep us safe and prosperous. We have disagreed with one another on many issues, including the Iraq war and intervention in Syria. But we are united in our opposition to a Donald Trump presidency. Recognizing as we do, the conditions in American politics that have contributed to his popularity, we nonetheless are obligated to state our core objections clearly:
His vision of American influence and power in the world is wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle. He swings from isolationism to military adventurism within the space of one sentence.
His advocacy for aggressively waging trade wars is a recipe for economic disaster in a globally connected world.
His embrace of the expansive use of torture is inexcusable.
His hateful, anti-Muslim rhetoric undercuts the seriousness of combatting Islamic radicalism by alienating partners in the Islamic world making significant contributions to the effort. Furthermore, it endangers the safety and Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of American Muslims.
Controlling our border and preventing illegal immigration is a serious issue, but his insistence that Mexico will fund a wall on the southern border inflames unhelpful passions, and rests on an utter misreading of, and contempt for, our southern neighbor.
Similarly, his insistence that close allies such as Japan must pay vast sums for protection is the sentiment of a racketeer, not the leader of the alliances that have served us so well since World War II.
His admiration for foreign dictators such as Vladimir Putin is unacceptable for the leader of the world’s greatest democracy.
He is fundamentally dishonest. Evidence of this includes his attempts to deny positions he has unquestionably taken in the past, including on the 2003 Iraq war and the 2011 Libyan conflict. We accept that views evolve over time, but this is simply misrepresentation.
His equation of business acumen with foreign policy experience is false. Not all lethal conflicts can be resolved as a real estate deal might, and there is no recourse to bankruptcy court in international affairs.
Mr. Trump’s own statements lead us to conclude that as president, he would use the authority of his office to act in ways that make America less safe, and which would diminish our standing in the world. Furthermore, his expansive view of how presidential power should be wielded against his detractors poses a distinct threat to civil liberty in the United States. Therefore, as committed and loyal Republicans, we are unable to support a Party ticket with Mr. Trump at its head. We commit ourselves to working energetically to prevent the election of someone so utterly unfitted to the office. Source It's funny that someone just mentioned a couple pages ago that Trump's healthcare page looks like something written by an amateur, when this reads like a parody of the Declaration of Independence that a grade schooler would write to their parents. Uh, no, it doesn't. Any comments on the contents?
The petulant list of grievances with a mass of signatories? I thought there was a resemblance. The contents are the same old thing - Republican establishment reacting too late to actually stop Trump in a way that would have to have involved adapting and reconnecting with voters.
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i see where you're coming from
trump is a kind of a joke, but the republicans are even more of a joke.
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On March 03 2016 13:53 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 13:04 Acrofales wrote:On March 03 2016 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Externalities exist. It's cheaper to pay for someone's abortion than to live in a society with unwanted children. Not sure that's true either. There's plenty of reasons for being pro-choice without inventing your own new economics. I don't know what percentage of unwanted children end up costing more than they contribute to the economy, but even if it's 20% (an absurdly high number), those 20% will have to be a 4x greater burden per person than the other 80% gain for your statement to be true. You assume that people who have abortions won't ever have children later on when they're more financially secure and better able to provide a solid home for them. That's simply untrue. A teenage girl who aborts a fetus in order to stay in school and finish her career, rather than have a child with her deadbeat high school boyfriend, isn't going to never have children. She's going to have children in her early 30s once her career is solid and her marriage to her college boyfriend is ten years old. If you let people choose when they'll have children then they'll choose the times when they're most able to support those children and provide them a solid home. If you force them to have children when they themselves don't think they can properly take care of them then you're fucking over their children and making them far more likely to be a burden ont he rest of us. This isn't some kind of "new economics". This is pretty fucking basic. If the people most intimately involved in the situation are saying "I don't want to have a baby" then maybe it's not a good time for them to have a baby. Later on when they're saying "but now would be a great time to have a baby" is probably a better time. If you make the assumption that it's babies now or babies later (which is a perfectly logical assumption to make, most people know how many children they want) it's not a particularly complicated decision.
Except Western nations with birth control have negative population growth barring immigration?
Edit: there are also way too many posters in this thread to keep up with anymore, can't we just collapse some of the right wing loonies (oblade, wei2, other trumpers) into a committee that can only make a certain number of posts a day? you guys should organize amongst yourselves, and maybe p6 and GH can stop bickering for pages on end. then we all win.
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On March 03 2016 14:17 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't think he actually knows anything about foreign politics, he's America's Berlusconi
Well, would be funny to see him end up in paris for a meeting with Merkel though.
In his defense, after reading what other republicans spit out on occasion, it seems to be normal though (Iraq-Pakistan border, time for the human race to enter the solar system, africa is a nation, venezuela = peru etc).
edit: and yes, i'm equating foreign politics with at least basic geographical knowledge. Or, if you want to go more "actual politics", i'd like the leader of my country to know what things like TPP are.
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Would certainly be funny seeing him at international diplomacy. "Hey Vlad, we're going to make Russia great again, I make the best deals!"
"Please Donald, no..."
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On March 03 2016 14:40 Nyxisto wrote:
Would certainly be funny seeing him at international diplomacy. "Hey Vlad, we're going to make Russia great again, I make the best deals!"
"We are a great nation already, what are you talking about. We just expanded it a little bit, too. Have a nice day." (in a heavy russian accent)
edit: damn. Now i want him to be president, just to watch that show. Since he'd be president only for four years, how much could he ruin anyway.
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We really don't want Trump to be president. It's objectively terrifying that he's this close to the GOP nomination as it stands.
I mean, there are any number of things that could happen that could lead him to an easy win in November. The Clinton email scandal could actually be damning but not explode until after Sanders is out. The economy could tank and the President's party usually eats the blame for that. Another national security nightmare could happen with Obama/Clinton eating the blame.
Do we really want to be crossing our fingers between July and November that none of that, or other, shit happens?
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On March 03 2016 14:54 Seuss wrote:
We really don't want Trump to be president. It's objectively terrifying that he's this close to the GOP nomination as it stands.
I mean, there are any number of things that could happen that could lead him to an easy win in November. The Clinton email scandal could actually be damning but not explode until after Sanders is out. The economy could tank and the President's party usually eats the blame for that. Another national security nightmare could happen with Obama/Clinton eating the blame.
Do we really want to be crossing our fingers between July and November that none of that, or other, shit happens?
Whoa, speak for yourself. I'm all for a meme presidency. If anything, it's what the liberals really should be begging for tbh. Either we get the democrats and republicans working together in the House and the Senate to fuck over Trump, or the Democrats sweep the living shit out of the Republicans in the House 4 to 8 years down the line, or America is Great Again.
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On March 03 2016 14:45 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 14:40 Nyxisto wrote:
Would certainly be funny seeing him at international diplomacy. "Hey Vlad, we're going to make Russia great again, I make the best deals!"
"We are a great nation already, what are you talking about. We just expanded it a little bit, too. Have a nice day." (in a heavy russian accent) edit: damn. Now i want him to be president, just to watch that show. Since he'd be president only for four years, how much could he ruin anyway.
I'm just waiting for him to call some foreign dignitary an asshat. 4 years is plenty of time to get us into a war.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 03 2016 14:39 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 14:17 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't think he actually knows anything about foreign politics, he's America's Berlusconi Well, would be funny to see him end up in paris for a meeting with Merkel though. In his defense, after reading what other republicans spit out on occasion, it seems to be normal though (Iraq-Pakistan border, time for the human race to enter the solar system, africa is a nation, venezuela = peru etc). edit: and yes, i'm equating foreign politics with at least basic geographical knowledge. Or, if you want to go more "actual politics", i'd like the leader of my country to know what things like TPP are.
They've all said some pretty irresponsible things on foreign policy, but I suppose McCain did too when he was trying to be extra hawkish. Still, I don't recall anyone else pushing for more war crimes to be committed. Bad judgment is one thing. Making everyone your enemy with absurdly aggressive policies is another.
That's one of the fundamental reasons the Paul's will stay away from him, and it's why he has a problem with the military right now.
In actuality, he probably thinks he can win a deal (like he does on everything else) by pushing for the extreme first. But still, you don't play that type of gamesmanship so freely with IR.
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US track record with 3 major candidates:
1992 Clinton (Dem)
1980 Reagan (Rep)
1968 Nixon (Rep)
1924 Coolidge (Rep)
1856 Buchanan (Dem)
1848 Taylor (Whig)
1832 Jackson (Dem)
US track record with 4 major candidates:
1912 Wilson (Dem)
1860 Lincoln (Rep)
1824 John Quincy Adams
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Haha on Trumps "healthcare policy reform" and the entirely expected reaction based on my previous brief foray on the topic.
Yes it's fairly unspecific and comes across somewhat amateurish. HE IS NOT WRITING IT FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
As far as I could tell literally everyone posting in favor of the ACA in this thread was someone who had never in their life had to shop for or buy their own insurance. Presumably on your parents til 25 then hopefully you secured a good career with your degree and it's now provided by employer. All find and good and it certainly qualifies you to tell people how nice it is to have but it did produce some hilariously naive posts.
Anyways. Trumps deal is not surprising in any way and he basically just pieced it together from other candidates stuff but it is EXACTLY what anybody who hates the ACA wants to hear and hits most of the important reasons. Whether it's "practical" is completely irrelevant to the people he is reaching for.
FYI. The states line deal is extremely important for small diverse population state like AK. It is incredibly difficult post ACA to even find a company that will sell you insurance privately up here and the premiums are insane. 320/month for a standardize plan for a 29 year old male based solely on age and where he lives. It goes up with medical conditions/history, work field etc. I got a great laugh out of last time #s people were throwing around. You can find smaller numbers on the internet ez enough until you try to give them your money. Everyone I know personally who is in a position to have to buy their own healthcare is in a religious sharing program we are talking at least like 30-35 people who I know well enough to talk about the shifty insurance situation. Most don't go to church regularly and about half of them were buying insurance for themselves happily enough prior to ACA.
In fact it has gotten so bad that I actually was able to exempt the penalty based on "not being able to afford it"! Made my whole day. First time in forever I celebrated after filing my taxes. (Yeh I have to file Mar 1, because my real world and your real world are different places)
It's not that other republicans didn't have more thought out healthcare reform. They were just either tools of the system or incapable of winning general.
Go Trump
Hahahahaha
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On March 03 2016 14:14 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 14:11 ElMeanYo wrote:On March 03 2016 14:06 Nyxisto wrote:
Well it sounds reasonable. I'm actually fucking scared of Trump leading the most powerful NATO state. Why? He's the only one with the balls (literally) to stand up to Putin, who is basically a Russian version of him. Yeah, and as we all know Putin has been GREAT for Russia...
Yes.He has.
It took the USA almost 10 years to raise rates from 0.25 to 0.5 whilst last year Russia hiked rates to 16-17%.USA would collapse overnight with 10% rates, heck there was enough wailing about a paltry 0.25% hike.I guess having 19 trillion in debt does that.The USA raised rates to 18% in 1980.An economy that cannot raise rates (Eg Japan since 1995) is a very unhealthy one.
And gotta laugh about these folks posting stuff about how many republicans won't be backing Trump in the general...
ITS THE SAME WITH SANDERS SUPPORTERS AND CLINTON! #bernieorbust
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On March 03 2016 15:29 strongwind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 14:45 m4ini wrote:On March 03 2016 14:40 Nyxisto wrote:
Would certainly be funny seeing him at international diplomacy. "Hey Vlad, we're going to make Russia great again, I make the best deals!"
"We are a great nation already, what are you talking about. We just expanded it a little bit, too. Have a nice day." (in a heavy russian accent) edit: damn. Now i want him to be president, just to watch that show. Since he'd be president only for four years, how much could he ruin anyway. I'm just waiting for him to call some foreign dignitary an asshat. 4 years is plenty of time to get us into a war.
War is far less likely with Trump.Trump can at least say that Iraq, Syria, Libya etc have been disasters.Clinton voted in favour of invading Iraq and had a hand in other mideast conflicts as secretary of state.Bush,Cheney,Rummy should all be in jail for war crimes but so should Clinton,Obama,Albright etc.The situation in the middle east is far more volatile now than in 2008, very much due to US intervention.
The establishment (Military industrial complex) cannot puppet Trump as they can Rubio.On the democrat side Clinton is obviously an establishment puppet, Sanders is not.
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This is the best comedy in years. Lots of people appreciate the hilarity of trump memeing his way to the presidency and personally it got even more enjoyable once I convinced myself it might even be an ok thing. 
(Cuz no bullshit the guy acts like a moron and his vocal base is dumb as rocks)
Oh. I loved palin the way 19 year olds now love sanders. She was awesome, the future, etc etc. went from a School Board to governor very quickly right through the outrage of the establishment Then the vp nomination to Mr Magoo and it all went downhill very quickly. End result most people felt betrayed and quite bitter about it. I suspect that's the fate of the sanders fans 
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On March 03 2016 17:18 Atreides wrote:This is the best comedy in years. Lots of people appreciate the hilarity of trump memeing his way to the presidency and personally it got even more enjoyable once I convinced myself it might even be an ok thing. (Cuz no bullshit the guy acts like a moron and his vocal base is dumb as rocks) Oh. I loved palin the way 19 year olds now love sanders. She was awesome, the future, etc etc. went from a School Board to governor very quickly right through the outrage of the establishment Then the vp nomination to Mr Magoo and it all went downhill very quickly. End result most people felt betrayed and quite bitter about it. I suspect that's the fate of the sanders fans
You loved Palin? You advertise that willingly?
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Palin when she was a school board member turned small town mayor etc was very personable and real and did many good things. She was mayor near where I lived senior year high school. Governor run happened while I was second year state college. She carried even the campus by a good margin I think. She was immensely popular outside the political establishment. I honestly think STILL think that she would have been the best governor we'd had in a while and Alaska wouldn't be so far down the shithole if not for the VP appointment. THAT happened while I was doing my PhD at Iowa and let me tell you everyone wanted my opinion day that was announced. Heh
But then she turned into/turned out to be an unreliable nut job. Soul crushing. Alaska was still ok with her til she resigned as governor to go cash out on her current popularity and sell books (perception) think she got on the big stage too soon. As opposed to sanders who is too late.
I had a low opinion of the TV palin everyone saw also. She was completely opposite if trump and awful at dealing with the media but yehh.....
I'd be highly interested in similar personal anecdotes of most politicians in their early years. All the ones I read they still sound like asses.
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On March 03 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2016 14:14 Mercy13 wrote:On March 03 2016 14:11 ElMeanYo wrote:On March 03 2016 14:06 Nyxisto wrote:
Well it sounds reasonable. I'm actually fucking scared of Trump leading the most powerful NATO state. Why? He's the only one with the balls (literally) to stand up to Putin, who is basically a Russian version of him. Yeah, and as we all know Putin has been GREAT for Russia... Yes.He has. It took the USA almost 10 years to raise rates from 0.25 to 0.5 whilst last year Russia hiked rates to 16-17%.USA would collapse overnight with 10% rates, heck there was enough wailing about a paltry 0.25% hike.I guess having 19 trillion in debt does that.The USA raised rates to 18% in 1980.An economy that cannot raise rates (Eg Japan since 1995) is a very unhealthy one. And gotta laugh about these folks posting stuff about how many republicans won't be backing Trump in the general... ITS THE SAME WITH SANDERS SUPPORTERS AND CLINTON! #bernieorbust
if you take a measure stupidly out of context you reach stupid conclusions...
maybe ask yourself: how has the GINI of russia fared under putin... how have civil liberties fared under putin and most importantly to a libertarian: what do you think about an oligarchy that kills and/or imprisons its opponents and hands out control over natural resources of the land to the buddies of the supreme leader?
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EPT
