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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
January 19 2016 03:33 GMT
#55201
On January 19 2016 09:37 LemOn wrote:
Trump actually is a favourite with the bookies according to oddschecker?


I would certainly put my money on him.
Has been succesful in various fields and how he plays the media is exactly as outlined in his Business Book lol.

And Hillary is a felon and Bernie Sanders a Socialist.

God Bless America

I will actually make the bet.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
January 19 2016 03:34 GMT
#55202
On January 19 2016 09:38 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 07:46 Souma wrote:
In response to Plansix and GreenHorizons:

People have to condemn it everywhere. When Plansix or anyone tries to justify a protester's unacceptable action on this forum, that's adding to the problem. The internet is a powerful forum, so you definitely should not callously disregard places like Reddit.

We're talking about common sense here. If someone purports violence, condemn them. If they're spreading a message contrary to what the movement is about, stamp them out. This is the job of the protesters and their supporters. If they can't manage that, then they shouldn't be surprised when people outside the movement don't empathize with their cause.

Can the media be unfair and only depict the bad aspects of a protest? Of course. We've witnessed it time and time again. But that's just another obstacle people are going to have to try and overcome in this day and age, and believe it or not one of the best ways to do that is to just stay on message and true to the movement, and not let the idiots string you along.

Vote Bernie Sanders, 2016.

If only the problems with BLM were so simple. Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a "movement" that is so eager to find meaning for its existence that it is more than happy to plant its retarded flag on the most ludicrous of causes. BLM literally invents racism out of thin air to justify itself. Of course, the great irony here is that, by doing so, BLM completely undercuts its ability to credibly address legitimate racial problems.

For the longest time, I thought we were still talking about the Bureau of Land Management messing with people.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
January 19 2016 03:36 GMT
#55203
On January 19 2016 09:38 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 07:46 Souma wrote:
In response to Plansix and GreenHorizons:

People have to condemn it everywhere. When Plansix or anyone tries to justify a protester's unacceptable action on this forum, that's adding to the problem. The internet is a powerful forum, so you definitely should not callously disregard places like Reddit.

We're talking about common sense here. If someone purports violence, condemn them. If they're spreading a message contrary to what the movement is about, stamp them out. This is the job of the protesters and their supporters. If they can't manage that, then they shouldn't be surprised when people outside the movement don't empathize with their cause.

Can the media be unfair and only depict the bad aspects of a protest? Of course. We've witnessed it time and time again. But that's just another obstacle people are going to have to try and overcome in this day and age, and believe it or not one of the best ways to do that is to just stay on message and true to the movement, and not let the idiots string you along.

Vote Bernie Sanders, 2016.

If only the problems with BLM were so simple. Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a "movement" that is so eager to find meaning for its existence that it is more than happy to plant its retarded flag on the most ludicrous of causes. BLM literally invents racism out of thin air to justify itself. Of course, the great irony here is that, by doing so, BLM completely undercuts its ability to credibly address legitimate racial problems.

For once, I agree with you. BLM isn't changing the course of dialogue or public opinion on the matter. Those things were in route already with the recent police actions across the nation and their publicity.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 19 2016 03:47 GMT
#55204
Harney County, Oregon—the site of a two-week long, militia-led standoff against the federal government—is "the most government-dependent county in Oregon," according to a report from the New York Times.

The 2013 statistic, which is the most recent available, reveals that the relationship between the county's approximately 7,000 residents and the government is more complicated than standoff leader Ammon Bundy admits in front of television cameras.

According to a Times story on the sagging economy in Harney County, government jobs at prisons, schools and the very wildlife refuge occupied by Bundy and his brigade form the life blood of a community that once leaned more heavily on private industry. Today, the Times reports that 60 percent of the income in the county comes from "the public sector."

The state of Delaware could fit four times comfortably in the sprawling lands that make up Harney County, which once leaned heavily on the timber industry for good paying jobs. Since the 1980s, most of the mills have closed around Burns, the town closest to the wildlife reduge.

According to the Times, the economic woes of living on the high plains in Oregon have become so devastating that Harney County has lost 4 percent of its people since 2010.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11509 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-19 04:00:28
January 19 2016 03:53 GMT
#55205
On January 19 2016 09:14 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 06:29 Introvert wrote:
On January 19 2016 06:16 Yoav wrote:
So, in the interest of defending people I strongly disagree with on nearly everything...

Did I miss a memo that Christians are supposed to care really strongly about whether you say "two Corinthians" or "second Corinthians?" Apparently Trump is getting shit for doing this at Liberty University (because we've all decided to treat Jerry Falwell like the Protestant Pope for some reason). My Bible says PROS KORINTHIOUS B (in the original Greek) so maybe I missed that we were supposed to care. Don't we all google this shit now 2 cor 3 or whatever? So done with sanctimonious pharisees pretending to represent "true" Christianity.

Of course, Trump and his claims to religiosity are obviously fraudulent, but the issue is more his likening of the Bible of "The Art of the Deal," and the fact that he says he's never asked for forgiveness... never mind the xenophobia and objectification of women.


Can confirm, no one cares. I've heard it both ways.

That being said, the use of "second" is far more common, in my experience.


"Second" is considered proper/correct, and is what most evangelical/religious right church-goers would expect to hear from someone who is enmeshed in their culture. "Two" is what you expect the inexperienced or complete outsiders to say.

So Trump caused a hubbub because his blatant pandering was a little too blatant.

I think this analysis rings more true than

On January 19 2016 06:16 Yoav wrote:
Did I miss a memo that Christians are supposed to care really strongly about whether you say "two Corinthians" or "second Corinthians?"


It might just be that Trump tends to speak at grade 4 level (Flesch-Kincaid tests), but I also think it sounds like someone inexperienced at the very least. However, I think American Christians have every right to be suspicious that they are being manipulated by a bunch of Jesus talk in the primaries (and should have been suspicious a lot earlier- although perhaps they were, I don't know.) While it is difficult to know what people really believe, the American system seems to reward fairly transparent pandering to Christians during the primaries, even if the ones trying to woo Christian voters are in fact heretical Mormons (I'm not sure why the latter would work).
Moderator"Major headline-grabbing victory for progressives was that of John Fetterman" The Jacobin
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
January 19 2016 04:31 GMT
#55206
Forgive my ignorance, are Mormons considered to be Christians? Don't they believe that someone found Egyptian plates in New York or something?
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
January 19 2016 04:35 GMT
#55207
On January 19 2016 13:31 Nyxisto wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, are Mormons considered to be Christians? Don't they believe that someone found Egyptian plates in New York or something?


Eh, it depends who you ask. Many people who openly mock Mormons as a cult were open to consider them Christian when it came to Mitt Romney. I don't know anyone who would consider them Christian but I know a lot of people that don't consider Baptists or Catholics real Christians either. It depends entirely on who you ask.
LiquidDota Staff
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45855 Posts
January 19 2016 04:40 GMT
#55208
Bernie has an amazing amount of resilience, patience, and composure against trolls. He's consistently being asked to attack Hillary Clinton, present ad hominems, and otherwise create superficial entertainment instead of doing what he wants to do: debate important issues.
Here's one of the many examples:



And here's another one... that steely resolve!!!

"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 19 2016 04:51 GMT
#55209
Separation of church and state? When it comes to fighting food waste, the U.S. government is looking to partner up with the faithful.

The Environmental Protection Agency on Monday launched the Food Steward's Pledge, an initiative to engage religious groups of all faiths to help redirect the food that ends up in landfills to hungry mouths. It's one piece of the agency's larger plan to reduce food waste by 50 percent by 2030.

"We can make leaps and bounds in this process if we tackle this problem more systemically and bring a broader number of stakeholders to the table," EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy tells us. By engaging religious communities, she says, "we are tapping into incredibly motivated and dedicated people."

Food waste connects to the core values of many faith communities, particularly helping the poor and feeding the hungry, McCarthy notes.

As we've reported, more than 1,200 calories per American per day are wasted, according to U.S. government figures. Loss occurs on the farm, at the retail level and in homes. We consumers often toss out foods because they've passed their sell-by date — but are still just fine to eat — or because we buy more than we can eat before it goes bad.

As McCarthy notes, a lot of that is discarded but still edible and wholesome and could be used to feed some of the 48 million American who struggle to get enough to eat.

At the consumer level, changing behavior is key, says EPA Assistant Administrator Mathy Stanislaus, and faith-based groups can help make that happen in a variety of ways. For instance, when these organizations hold potlucks, the leftovers can go to the local food bank.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zf
Profile Joined April 2011
231 Posts
January 19 2016 04:56 GMT
#55210
On January 19 2016 13:31 Nyxisto wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, are Mormons considered to be Christians? Don't they believe that someone found Egyptian plates in New York or something?

Depends on who you ask. Heck, there are Protestants who don't consider Catholics to be Christians and vice versa.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
January 19 2016 04:57 GMT
#55211
My friends who are Catholic don't consider themselves Christian.

It's weird.
Writer
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
January 19 2016 05:09 GMT
#55212
We had this discussion before: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=2318#46346

It's only a matter of time before some nitwit comes in and points to this: No True Scotsman
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23932 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-19 05:41:42
January 19 2016 05:39 GMT
#55213
On January 19 2016 12:36 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 09:38 xDaunt wrote:
On January 19 2016 07:46 Souma wrote:
In response to Plansix and GreenHorizons:

People have to condemn it everywhere. When Plansix or anyone tries to justify a protester's unacceptable action on this forum, that's adding to the problem. The internet is a powerful forum, so you definitely should not callously disregard places like Reddit.

We're talking about common sense here. If someone purports violence, condemn them. If they're spreading a message contrary to what the movement is about, stamp them out. This is the job of the protesters and their supporters. If they can't manage that, then they shouldn't be surprised when people outside the movement don't empathize with their cause.

Can the media be unfair and only depict the bad aspects of a protest? Of course. We've witnessed it time and time again. But that's just another obstacle people are going to have to try and overcome in this day and age, and believe it or not one of the best ways to do that is to just stay on message and true to the movement, and not let the idiots string you along.

Vote Bernie Sanders, 2016.

If only the problems with BLM were so simple. Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a "movement" that is so eager to find meaning for its existence that it is more than happy to plant its retarded flag on the most ludicrous of causes. BLM literally invents racism out of thin air to justify itself. Of course, the great irony here is that, by doing so, BLM completely undercuts its ability to credibly address legitimate racial problems.

For once, I agree with you. BLM isn't changing the course of dialogue or public opinion on the matter. Those things were in route already with the recent police actions across the nation and their publicity.


I don't even understand how one can possibly arrive at such a ridiculous conclusion?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
January 19 2016 06:06 GMT
#55214
On January 19 2016 14:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 12:36 aksfjh wrote:
On January 19 2016 09:38 xDaunt wrote:
On January 19 2016 07:46 Souma wrote:
In response to Plansix and GreenHorizons:

People have to condemn it everywhere. When Plansix or anyone tries to justify a protester's unacceptable action on this forum, that's adding to the problem. The internet is a powerful forum, so you definitely should not callously disregard places like Reddit.

We're talking about common sense here. If someone purports violence, condemn them. If they're spreading a message contrary to what the movement is about, stamp them out. This is the job of the protesters and their supporters. If they can't manage that, then they shouldn't be surprised when people outside the movement don't empathize with their cause.

Can the media be unfair and only depict the bad aspects of a protest? Of course. We've witnessed it time and time again. But that's just another obstacle people are going to have to try and overcome in this day and age, and believe it or not one of the best ways to do that is to just stay on message and true to the movement, and not let the idiots string you along.

Vote Bernie Sanders, 2016.

If only the problems with BLM were so simple. Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a "movement" that is so eager to find meaning for its existence that it is more than happy to plant its retarded flag on the most ludicrous of causes. BLM literally invents racism out of thin air to justify itself. Of course, the great irony here is that, by doing so, BLM completely undercuts its ability to credibly address legitimate racial problems.

For once, I agree with you. BLM isn't changing the course of dialogue or public opinion on the matter. Those things were in route already with the recent police actions across the nation and their publicity.


I don't even understand how one can possibly arrive at such a ridiculous conclusion?

Shall we start with "hands up don't shoot?" Or maybe Mizzou would be better?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 19 2016 06:10 GMT
#55215
On January 19 2016 14:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 12:36 aksfjh wrote:
On January 19 2016 09:38 xDaunt wrote:
On January 19 2016 07:46 Souma wrote:
In response to Plansix and GreenHorizons:

People have to condemn it everywhere. When Plansix or anyone tries to justify a protester's unacceptable action on this forum, that's adding to the problem. The internet is a powerful forum, so you definitely should not callously disregard places like Reddit.

We're talking about common sense here. If someone purports violence, condemn them. If they're spreading a message contrary to what the movement is about, stamp them out. This is the job of the protesters and their supporters. If they can't manage that, then they shouldn't be surprised when people outside the movement don't empathize with their cause.

Can the media be unfair and only depict the bad aspects of a protest? Of course. We've witnessed it time and time again. But that's just another obstacle people are going to have to try and overcome in this day and age, and believe it or not one of the best ways to do that is to just stay on message and true to the movement, and not let the idiots string you along.

Vote Bernie Sanders, 2016.

If only the problems with BLM were so simple. Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a "movement" that is so eager to find meaning for its existence that it is more than happy to plant its retarded flag on the most ludicrous of causes. BLM literally invents racism out of thin air to justify itself. Of course, the great irony here is that, by doing so, BLM completely undercuts its ability to credibly address legitimate racial problems.

For once, I agree with you. BLM isn't changing the course of dialogue or public opinion on the matter. Those things were in route already with the recent police actions across the nation and their publicity.


I don't even understand how one can possibly arrive at such a ridiculous conclusion?


BLM has made people post some memes on facebook, but I am not really seeing any actual changes. I feel like the hype kind of died down because they couldn't deliver a solid message and couldn't gather around a single action. I feel like modern day BLM is just "BLACK PEOPLE HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME, OK? IT IS REALLY MEAN". If they had focused around body cams on police or something, I think something may have gotten done. But as it is right now, BLM is just people yelling about inequality. And I say this as a liberal leaning dude. This is what it appears to be, to me. They needed to have a dagger and all they did was interrupt events.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
January 19 2016 06:38 GMT
#55216
On January 19 2016 13:31 Nyxisto wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, are Mormons considered to be Christians? Don't they believe that someone found Egyptian plates in New York or something?


Depends. They consider themselves as such, but some will also use the word "Christians" to refer to the rest of us.

The classical definition of "Christian" has to do with the Nicene creed, several parts of which the Mormons would dispute. Heck, I'm not sure Mormonism is strictly Monotheist (God has a physical body, gender, etc.)

The closest parallel is Islam, which borrows a lot from Christianity, comes later, adds a key prophet and some sacred texts, prohibits certain "vice" activities like drinking, and emphasizes traditional authority structures (the state in Islam, the family in Mormonism). Whether Islam or Mormonism is closer to Nicene Christianity could be reasonably argued.

As for the specifics of the Book of Mormon, yes, they are mighty strange to most of us.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8744 Posts
January 19 2016 06:46 GMT
#55217
I am more interested in and fascinated by their magic underwear, but I am weird that way I guess.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
January 19 2016 06:57 GMT
#55218
Mormonism is also much less international, even though they have missions. Even though in some ways Mormons can be seen as agents for social conservatism, it is very much an american religion that gave up on polygamy after some pressure, became an integrated church, and now is one of the laziest religions at opposing gay marriage now that it is where it is. I really don't think they compare well with Islam at all because of the lack of Islam really being associated with one country and continually adapting to that one country.
Freeeeeeedom
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11509 Posts
January 19 2016 08:05 GMT
#55219
On January 19 2016 13:35 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 13:31 Nyxisto wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, are Mormons considered to be Christians? Don't they believe that someone found Egyptian plates in New York or something?


Eh, it depends who you ask. Many people who openly mock Mormons as a cult were open to consider them Christian when it came to Mitt Romney. I don't know anyone who would consider them Christian but I know a lot of people that don't consider Baptists or Catholics real Christians either. It depends entirely on who you ask.

Honestly, the only sort of church that I can think that would call Mormons fellow Christians tend towards de-emphasizing the central tenants of Christianity anyways... the sort that can't even kick out an atheist minister because they fear being dogmatic (see United Church of Canada and Gretta Vosper).
Moderator"Major headline-grabbing victory for progressives was that of John Fetterman" The Jacobin
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23932 Posts
January 19 2016 09:25 GMT
#55220
On January 19 2016 15:10 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 14:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 19 2016 12:36 aksfjh wrote:
On January 19 2016 09:38 xDaunt wrote:
On January 19 2016 07:46 Souma wrote:
In response to Plansix and GreenHorizons:

People have to condemn it everywhere. When Plansix or anyone tries to justify a protester's unacceptable action on this forum, that's adding to the problem. The internet is a powerful forum, so you definitely should not callously disregard places like Reddit.

We're talking about common sense here. If someone purports violence, condemn them. If they're spreading a message contrary to what the movement is about, stamp them out. This is the job of the protesters and their supporters. If they can't manage that, then they shouldn't be surprised when people outside the movement don't empathize with their cause.

Can the media be unfair and only depict the bad aspects of a protest? Of course. We've witnessed it time and time again. But that's just another obstacle people are going to have to try and overcome in this day and age, and believe it or not one of the best ways to do that is to just stay on message and true to the movement, and not let the idiots string you along.

Vote Bernie Sanders, 2016.

If only the problems with BLM were so simple. Let's keep in mind that we're talking about a "movement" that is so eager to find meaning for its existence that it is more than happy to plant its retarded flag on the most ludicrous of causes. BLM literally invents racism out of thin air to justify itself. Of course, the great irony here is that, by doing so, BLM completely undercuts its ability to credibly address legitimate racial problems.

For once, I agree with you. BLM isn't changing the course of dialogue or public opinion on the matter. Those things were in route already with the recent police actions across the nation and their publicity.


I don't even understand how one can possibly arrive at such a ridiculous conclusion?


BLM has made people post some memes on facebook, but I am not really seeing any actual changes. I feel like the hype kind of died down because they couldn't deliver a solid message and couldn't gather around a single action. I feel like modern day BLM is just "BLACK PEOPLE HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME, OK? IT IS REALLY MEAN". If they had focused around body cams on police or something, I think something may have gotten done. But as it is right now, BLM is just people yelling about inequality. And I say this as a liberal leaning dude. This is what it appears to be, to me. They needed to have a dagger and all they did was interrupt events.


Just because you (and others) aren't listening doesn't mean it isn't being said...

This isn't a comprehensive list or anything but there's a clear message for those who listen beyond typical media outlets.

http://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions/#solutionsoverview

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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