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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:10 GreenHorizons wrote: The NFL won't let you in any of their stadiums, not sure about the other leagues though. 1: Theaters are not sports stadiums. The Bataclan was a theater. 2: It varies across states for sports stadiums. Holders of private property can, of course, disallow carry on their property unless state or federal law specifically countermands it. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8726 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:15 ticklishmusic wrote: lmao carson classic doctor's joke ^^ | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:07 acker wrote: Relative to the alternative? Literally nothing. Doesn't that really depend on the goals of the armed intruders? If it's a hostage situation vs. mass murder the outcomes with armed civilians are pretty different (where a hostage situation can become the latter if they feel threatened pretty quickly) | ||
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Introvert
United States4921 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Not because we let Muslims enter the country though. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:16 TheTenthDoc wrote: Doesn't that really depend on the goals of the armed intruders? If it's a hostage situation vs. mass murder the outcomes with armed civilians are pretty different (where a hostage situation can become the latter if they feel threatened pretty quickly) I thought we were talking about the Bataclan here, where the entire point was to kill as many civilians in the most efficient manner possible. If we're talking about other intentions, I don't think there have been any hostage situations where the situation became a mass murder incident due to a CCW holder. On the other hand, there have been quite a few situations where a CCW holder got the jump on an unsuspecting hostage taker (most recently in November, in Chicago). The same holds true for robberies and other "lesser" crimes; sometimes the CCW holder dies because he/she fucks up or isn't fast enough, but that's it. Nonetheless, the possibility that something goes wrong is definitely there. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:22 acker wrote: I thought we were talking about the Bataclan here, where the entire point of the militants was to kill as many civilians in the most efficient manner possible. If we're talking about other intentions, I don't think there have been any hostage situations where the situation became a mass murder incident due to a CCW holder. On the other hand, there have been quite a few situations where a CCW holder got the jump on an unsuspecting hostage holder (most recently in November, in Chicago). Nonetheless, the possibility is definitely there. people aren't omnipotent and will not only carry their weapons when there's actual danger. If the victims of everyday gun violence are any indicator that isn't a trade worth making even if they theoretically could stop such incidents. | ||
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Sadist
United States7326 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:22 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: https://twitter.com/JohnFugelsang/status/687837208275988480 He also was a chicken shit for not calling those people unhinged :\ | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8726 Posts
also, I totally agree with darth sidious. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23732 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:24 Nyxisto wrote: people aren't omnipotent and will not only carry their weapons when there's actual danger. If the victims of everyday gun violence are any indicator that isn't a trade worth making even if they theoretically could stop such incidents. It depends on whether you believe that CCW holders significantly overlap with criminals who cause gun violence. This is almost never the case; for example, CCW holders in Texas are half as likely as cops and a fourth as likely as the average Texan to commit any given sort of crime*. Illegal violence committed with guns is the province of repeat felons and gang members in impoverished communities; these people cannot hold CCW licenses. *Or, more accurately, to be successfully prosecuted for any given class of crime. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:29 GreenHorizons wrote: I seriously wonder what rhetoric these guys would have left to elevate the threat of a real threat like the USSR if one were to come up after making ISIS sound like the most powerful group in the world. Something like this: "WE SHOULD BOMB RUSSIA" "YOU REALIZE THAT'S MAD" "I'M NOT MAD" "NO I MEANT MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION, THEY HAVE NUKES TOO" "OUR NUKES ARE BETTER BECAUSE WE SPEND MORE MONEY... AMERICA" | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:22 acker wrote: I thought we were talking about the Bataclan here, where the entire point was to kill as many civilians in the most efficient manner possible. If we're talking about other intentions, I don't think there have been any hostage situations where the situation became a mass murder incident due to a CCW holder. On the other hand, there have been quite a few situations where a CCW holder got the jump on an unsuspecting hostage taker (most recently in November, in Chicago). The same holds true for robberies and other "lesser" crimes; sometimes the CCW holder dies because he/she fucks up or isn't fast enough, but that's it. Nonetheless, the possibility that something goes wrong is definitely there. I think there are some good arguments for CCW in a lot of situations. I'm just not sure that it's a terribly good method to propose to defuse organized terrorist mass murder/hostage situations with multiple perpetrators, though I'm not acquainted with the history of CCW in affecting them (or when it even could have). They'll just be so far outnumbered, outorganized, and outgunned that I can't see it doing much beyond raising the body count. "I'm all for free trade but I want a tariff" LMAO Trump | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Introvert
United States4921 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8726 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On January 15 2016 12:33 TheTenthDoc wrote: I think there are some good arguments for CCW in a lot of situations. I'm just not sure that it's a terribly good method to propose to defuse organized terrorist mass murder/hostage situations with multiple perpetrators, though I'm not acquainted with the history of CCW in affecting them (or when it even could have). They'll just be so far outnumbered and outgunned that I can't see it doing much. Roughly 4% of the US population holds a CCW license. It's fairly easy to calculate how many people need to be in an area before CCW holders outnumber terrorists, as CCW holders tend to be religious about the whole "CARRY GUNS EVERYWHERE SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED KENYAN MUSLIM" thing. Quite frankly, "good guys with guns" is a terrible way to deal with a mass murder event, armed robbery, home invasion, hostage incident, etc. It's just that every other way is worse; police response times are simply too slow to do anything except clean up the aftermath. | ||
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