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On December 03 2015 03:11 ZeroChrome wrote:
Yesterday I saw a recording of a radio show from september 12 2001 in which a woman called in and told the host that she saw muslims celebrating/rioting after the attacks. Trump isn't that stupid guys.
Is that a bait post?
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On December 03 2015 03:11 ZeroChrome wrote:
Yesterday I saw a recording of a radio show from september 12 2001 in which a woman called in and told the host that she saw muslims celebrating/rioting after the attacks. Trump isn't that stupid guys.
Where these Muslims in New Jersey and in a crowd? I think we need more evidence beyond "Someone totally called into a radio show after 9/11 and said they saw it." There are a ton of people who live in the area Trump was talking about saying "I have no idea what he is smoking."
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On December 03 2015 03:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:11 ZeroChrome wrote:
Yesterday I saw a recording of a radio show from september 12 2001 in which a woman called in and told the host that she saw muslims celebrating/rioting after the attacks. Trump isn't that stupid guys. Where these Muslims in New Jersey and in a crowd? I think we need more evidence beyond "Someone totally called into a radio show after 9/11 and said they saw it." There are a ton of people who live in the area Trump was talking about saying "I have no idea what he is smoking."
She said where she lived but I can't remember where it was, just the name of some neighbourhood that didn't mean anything to me. The way they talked about it implied that there were other stories going around at the time about similar incidents. Trump's story probably has a very slight basis in truth, I don't think he would outright make shit up, he's smart enough to know he'll get busted in this day and age. I don't really like this tactic though, even as a Trump fan.
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On December 03 2015 03:32 ZeroChrome wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:14 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 03:11 ZeroChrome wrote:
Yesterday I saw a recording of a radio show from september 12 2001 in which a woman called in and told the host that she saw muslims celebrating/rioting after the attacks. Trump isn't that stupid guys. Where these Muslims in New Jersey and in a crowd? I think we need more evidence beyond "Someone totally called into a radio show after 9/11 and said they saw it." There are a ton of people who live in the area Trump was talking about saying "I have no idea what he is smoking." She said where she lived but I can't remember where it was, just the name of some neighbourhood that didn't mean anything to me. The way they talked about it implied that there were other stories going around at the time about similar incidents. Trump's story probably has a very slight basis in truth, I don't think he would outright make shit up, he's smart enough to know he'll get busted in this day and age.
I have seen zero creditable evidence that there was any public cheering as the towers feel in the US. These cases of “I remember it happening” that are unsubstantiated and vague sound like completely BS. Considering the details of what took place took most of the day to come out, I can't really see any reasons for random US Muslims to be cheering unless there was some top secret email group telling them about the attack. That is one of the numerous holes in those claims.
And Trump is not a very smart man. He is the a man that inherited a lot of money and managed to hang on to it.
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On December 03 2015 03:32 ZeroChrome wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:14 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 03:11 ZeroChrome wrote:
Yesterday I saw a recording of a radio show from september 12 2001 in which a woman called in and told the host that she saw muslims celebrating/rioting after the attacks. Trump isn't that stupid guys. Where these Muslims in New Jersey and in a crowd? I think we need more evidence beyond "Someone totally called into a radio show after 9/11 and said they saw it." There are a ton of people who live in the area Trump was talking about saying "I have no idea what he is smoking." She said where she lived but I can't remember where it was, just the name of some neighbourhood that didn't mean anything to me. The way they talked about it implied that there were other stories going around at the time about similar incidents. Trump's story probably has a very slight basis in truth, I don't think he would outright make shit up, he's smart enough to know he'll get busted in this day and age. I don't really like this tactic though, even as a Trump fan.
Not only is, "I remember hearing someone call in and say it's true" an incredibly weak argument in its own right, but people saying, "I remember seeing it too" are incredibly suspect.
1) These people can easily just be bandwagoning and supporting Trump, regardless of the facts and whether they actually saw this or not.
2) If you actually read the research, memory is so unreliable that it probably shouldn't even be admissible in court. The vast majority of people have an absolutely awful memory that frequently fills in gaps by creating false memories to make the world conform to their existing biases and make it feel coherent and real to them.
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United States44439 Posts
On December 03 2015 03:32 ZeroChrome wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:14 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 03:11 ZeroChrome wrote:
Yesterday I saw a recording of a radio show from september 12 2001 in which a woman called in and told the host that she saw muslims celebrating/rioting after the attacks. Trump isn't that stupid guys. Where these Muslims in New Jersey and in a crowd? I think we need more evidence beyond "Someone totally called into a radio show after 9/11 and said they saw it." There are a ton of people who live in the area Trump was talking about saying "I have no idea what he is smoking." She said where she lived but I can't remember where it was, just the name of some neighbourhood that didn't mean anything to me. The way they talked about it implied that there were other stories going around at the time about similar incidents. Trump's story probably has a very slight basis in truth, I don't think he would outright make shit up, he's smart enough to know he'll get busted in this day and age. I don't really like this tactic though, even as a Trump fan.
There are youtube videos of Pakistanis cheering a cricket victory that have been passed off as cheering terror. I would not be surprised if this was a similar situation where someone remembers that their friend's dog saw something about that but they didn't personally witness it. Misinformation travels fast.
Think about it another way. In 2001 most people didn't even have cell phones, let alone twitter. If you wanted to organize an immediate celebration in the streets about an ongoing event exclusively within your own community who are mostly at work, how would you do it? There are logistical issues here. Hell, did they even know it was Al Qaeda that early?
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The "evidence" I cited was a recording of a radio show recorded the day after the attacks. Not someone remembering the events years later but rather the woman calling in within hours of the events described. Still not credible I know but there is more to it than /pol/ bandwagoning on Trump's story.
I actually agree with you guys that Trump is full of shit generally.
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On December 03 2015 04:00 ZeroChrome wrote:
The "evidence" I cited was a recording of a radio show recorded the day after the attacks. Not someone remembering the events years later but rather the woman calling in within hours of the events described. Still not credible I know but there is more to it than /pol/ bandwagoning on Trump's story.
I actually agree with you guys that Trump is full of shit generally.
The evidence you didn't provide for anyone to listen to. With all the fabricated shit on the internet, I would not put it past someone to make a fake radio call in and claim it was from 2001.
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I saw it on 4chan and the thread reached bump limit so I can't find it again. If I do I'll post it. It was like 4 hours long so I don't think it was faked.
I found this quite funny though
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mu0HdnQ.jpg)
I wonder if that figure includes the salary of the guy he has shitposting on twitter all day?
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You do realize that Trump made that claim almost 10 days ago right? And being from 4chan doesn't help anything's credibility also.
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On December 03 2015 03:05 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 02:53 Yoav wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 02:42 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:37 Yoav wrote:
Kasich is right (his pussyfooting on refugees aside). We need to fight terrorism not with military power but with propaganda and with shows of goodwill. The US wants to be the world's moral exemplar, respected by all. That means we have to start acting like the grown-up. Convince the world that the West is not at war with Islam. Deprive terrorism of its lifeblood and let it wither on the vine. What evidence is there that Western culture and propaganda will eliminate radical Islam at all, much less within a generation? What evidences is there that violence will remove it within a generation? Any number of historical conquests? Though, as you point out, this requires a level of ruthlessness and willful cruelty that is now considered beyond the pale. Sure, we could wipe out ISIS and everyone who sympathizes with them. We could destroy entire villages that gave us shit. But hell, even ISIS tends to not put entire villages to death. At the point your brutality has eclipsed your enemy, you have given up any moral justification for war. The whole convincing folks of Western values thing seems like a better bet. Let's add that it's remarkable how much appeal the West really has. Even our worse traits (hedonism etc) are pretty attractive to people. Putting it another way, look at the history of US interactions with pretty much any Latin American country. Back when we were focused on killing our enemies, we kept making more. When we gave up on that (mostly through boredom and distraction, and partly due to confidence) we actually started to make friends. If anything, radical Islam is more of a problem now than it was two decades ago.
And how exactly is that surprising?
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United States44439 Posts
On December 03 2015 04:40 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:53 Yoav wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 02:42 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:37 Yoav wrote:
Kasich is right (his pussyfooting on refugees aside). We need to fight terrorism not with military power but with propaganda and with shows of goodwill. The US wants to be the world's moral exemplar, respected by all. That means we have to start acting like the grown-up. Convince the world that the West is not at war with Islam. Deprive terrorism of its lifeblood and let it wither on the vine. What evidence is there that Western culture and propaganda will eliminate radical Islam at all, much less within a generation? What evidences is there that violence will remove it within a generation? Any number of historical conquests? Though, as you point out, this requires a level of ruthlessness and willful cruelty that is now considered beyond the pale. Sure, we could wipe out ISIS and everyone who sympathizes with them. We could destroy entire villages that gave us shit. But hell, even ISIS tends to not put entire villages to death. At the point your brutality has eclipsed your enemy, you have given up any moral justification for war. The whole convincing folks of Western values thing seems like a better bet. Let's add that it's remarkable how much appeal the West really has. Even our worse traits (hedonism etc) are pretty attractive to people. Putting it another way, look at the history of US interactions with pretty much any Latin American country. Back when we were focused on killing our enemies, we kept making more. When we gave up on that (mostly through boredom and distraction, and partly due to confidence) we actually started to make friends. If anything, radical Islam is more of a problem now than it was two decades ago. And how exactly is that surprising?
Additionally I think you would struggle to describe the last two decades as being non confrontational with Islam and trying to win them over with cultural superiority and the high road. Things have gotten worse but that is not a point against the ideological strategy, that wasn't the strategy used in the last two decades. The military strategy is the one condemned by failure.
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On December 03 2015 03:11 ZeroChrome wrote:
Yesterday I saw a recording of a radio show from september 12 2001 in which a woman called in and told the host that she saw muslims celebrating/rioting after the attacks. Trump isn't that stupid guys.
Well if Muslims can be happy and/ or sad after 9/11 for reasons not necessarily linked to 9/11, then that must mean Trump- a man who consistently lies and fabricates things- is clearly telling the truth.
+ Show Spoiler +I don't really need to put "/s", do I?
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On December 03 2015 04:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:40 m4ini wrote:On December 03 2015 03:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:53 Yoav wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 02:42 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:37 Yoav wrote:
Kasich is right (his pussyfooting on refugees aside). We need to fight terrorism not with military power but with propaganda and with shows of goodwill. The US wants to be the world's moral exemplar, respected by all. That means we have to start acting like the grown-up. Convince the world that the West is not at war with Islam. Deprive terrorism of its lifeblood and let it wither on the vine. What evidence is there that Western culture and propaganda will eliminate radical Islam at all, much less within a generation? What evidences is there that violence will remove it within a generation? Any number of historical conquests? Though, as you point out, this requires a level of ruthlessness and willful cruelty that is now considered beyond the pale. Sure, we could wipe out ISIS and everyone who sympathizes with them. We could destroy entire villages that gave us shit. But hell, even ISIS tends to not put entire villages to death. At the point your brutality has eclipsed your enemy, you have given up any moral justification for war. The whole convincing folks of Western values thing seems like a better bet. Let's add that it's remarkable how much appeal the West really has. Even our worse traits (hedonism etc) are pretty attractive to people. Putting it another way, look at the history of US interactions with pretty much any Latin American country. Back when we were focused on killing our enemies, we kept making more. When we gave up on that (mostly through boredom and distraction, and partly due to confidence) we actually started to make friends. If anything, radical Islam is more of a problem now than it was two decades ago. And how exactly is that surprising? Additionally I think you would struggle to describe the last two decades as being non confrontational with Islam and trying to win them over with cultural superiority and the high road. Things have gotten worse but that is not a point against the ideological strategy, that wasn't the strategy used in the last two decades. The military strategy is the one condemned by failure.
Couldn't have said it better.
That being said, what's going on in San Bernadino?
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On December 03 2015 05:02 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:48 KwarK wrote:On December 03 2015 04:40 m4ini wrote:On December 03 2015 03:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:53 Yoav wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 02:42 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:37 Yoav wrote:
Kasich is right (his pussyfooting on refugees aside). We need to fight terrorism not with military power but with propaganda and with shows of goodwill. The US wants to be the world's moral exemplar, respected by all. That means we have to start acting like the grown-up. Convince the world that the West is not at war with Islam. Deprive terrorism of its lifeblood and let it wither on the vine. What evidence is there that Western culture and propaganda will eliminate radical Islam at all, much less within a generation? What evidences is there that violence will remove it within a generation? Any number of historical conquests? Though, as you point out, this requires a level of ruthlessness and willful cruelty that is now considered beyond the pale. Sure, we could wipe out ISIS and everyone who sympathizes with them. We could destroy entire villages that gave us shit. But hell, even ISIS tends to not put entire villages to death. At the point your brutality has eclipsed your enemy, you have given up any moral justification for war. The whole convincing folks of Western values thing seems like a better bet. Let's add that it's remarkable how much appeal the West really has. Even our worse traits (hedonism etc) are pretty attractive to people. Putting it another way, look at the history of US interactions with pretty much any Latin American country. Back when we were focused on killing our enemies, we kept making more. When we gave up on that (mostly through boredom and distraction, and partly due to confidence) we actually started to make friends. If anything, radical Islam is more of a problem now than it was two decades ago. And how exactly is that surprising? Additionally I think you would struggle to describe the last two decades as being non confrontational with Islam and trying to win them over with cultural superiority and the high road. Things have gotten worse but that is not a point against the ideological strategy, that wasn't the strategy used in the last two decades. The military strategy is the one condemned by failure. Couldn't have said it better. That being said, what's going on in San Bernadino?
The most heavily armed/armored active shooters since the North Hollywood bank shootout? But this time with heaps of dead.
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On December 03 2015 05:06 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 05:02 m4ini wrote:On December 03 2015 04:48 KwarK wrote:On December 03 2015 04:40 m4ini wrote:On December 03 2015 03:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:53 Yoav wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 02:42 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:37 Yoav wrote:
Kasich is right (his pussyfooting on refugees aside). We need to fight terrorism not with military power but with propaganda and with shows of goodwill. The US wants to be the world's moral exemplar, respected by all. That means we have to start acting like the grown-up. Convince the world that the West is not at war with Islam. Deprive terrorism of its lifeblood and let it wither on the vine. What evidence is there that Western culture and propaganda will eliminate radical Islam at all, much less within a generation? What evidences is there that violence will remove it within a generation? Any number of historical conquests? Though, as you point out, this requires a level of ruthlessness and willful cruelty that is now considered beyond the pale. Sure, we could wipe out ISIS and everyone who sympathizes with them. We could destroy entire villages that gave us shit. But hell, even ISIS tends to not put entire villages to death. At the point your brutality has eclipsed your enemy, you have given up any moral justification for war. The whole convincing folks of Western values thing seems like a better bet. Let's add that it's remarkable how much appeal the West really has. Even our worse traits (hedonism etc) are pretty attractive to people. Putting it another way, look at the history of US interactions with pretty much any Latin American country. Back when we were focused on killing our enemies, we kept making more. When we gave up on that (mostly through boredom and distraction, and partly due to confidence) we actually started to make friends. If anything, radical Islam is more of a problem now than it was two decades ago. And how exactly is that surprising? Additionally I think you would struggle to describe the last two decades as being non confrontational with Islam and trying to win them over with cultural superiority and the high road. Things have gotten worse but that is not a point against the ideological strategy, that wasn't the strategy used in the last two decades. The military strategy is the one condemned by failure. Couldn't have said it better. That being said, what's going on in San Bernadino? The most heavily armed/armored active shooters since the North Hollywood bank shootout? But this time with heaps of dead.
.. and where did you gather that?
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What was attacked? A country club/golf course?
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On December 03 2015 05:11 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 05:06 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On December 03 2015 05:02 m4ini wrote:On December 03 2015 04:48 KwarK wrote:On December 03 2015 04:40 m4ini wrote:On December 03 2015 03:05 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:53 Yoav wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 xDaunt wrote:On December 03 2015 02:45 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2015 02:42 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
What evidence is there that Western culture and propaganda will eliminate radical Islam at all, much less within a generation? What evidences is there that violence will remove it within a generation? Any number of historical conquests? Though, as you point out, this requires a level of ruthlessness and willful cruelty that is now considered beyond the pale. Sure, we could wipe out ISIS and everyone who sympathizes with them. We could destroy entire villages that gave us shit. But hell, even ISIS tends to not put entire villages to death. At the point your brutality has eclipsed your enemy, you have given up any moral justification for war. The whole convincing folks of Western values thing seems like a better bet. Let's add that it's remarkable how much appeal the West really has. Even our worse traits (hedonism etc) are pretty attractive to people. Putting it another way, look at the history of US interactions with pretty much any Latin American country. Back when we were focused on killing our enemies, we kept making more. When we gave up on that (mostly through boredom and distraction, and partly due to confidence) we actually started to make friends. If anything, radical Islam is more of a problem now than it was two decades ago. And how exactly is that surprising? Additionally I think you would struggle to describe the last two decades as being non confrontational with Islam and trying to win them over with cultural superiority and the high road. Things have gotten worse but that is not a point against the ideological strategy, that wasn't the strategy used in the last two decades. The military strategy is the one condemned by failure. Couldn't have said it better. That being said, what's going on in San Bernadino? The most heavily armed/armored active shooters since the North Hollywood bank shootout? But this time with heaps of dead. .. and where did you gather that?
Search the internet. They are reported to be heavily armed and wearing military gear. I don't know about armor, but it could be true.
On December 03 2015 05:12 xDaunt wrote:
What was attacked? A country club/golf course?
Fire department. It is unclear how why specifically.
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