US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2107
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 16 2015 03:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Wouldn't making it easier for immigrants to obtain legalization/ documentation be a huge help to "securing our borders"? That phrase seems to be a buzzphrase/ catchphrase for a ton of politicians who have no specific ideas on how to do it, anyway. (Unless you're Trump, in which Yes, because building walls to keep people out over thousands of miles was super successful throughout history. I also hate the idea that we can’t do something until we fix something else. Like updating immigration and making work visas easier to obtain wouldn’t help with the border security issue. On July 16 2015 04:07 heliusx wrote: I have zero issues with making it fair and easier. What I do have a problem with is the opinion that anyone who wants to come should be allowed to. There are limits for a reason. You seem to be arguing with the fictional people in your head, rather than us. No one has advocated for the things you are talking about or against the things you are requesting(with the exception of securing the border first) | ||
heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43797 Posts
On July 16 2015 04:07 heliusx wrote: I have zero issues with making it fair and easier. What I do have a problem with is the opinion that anyone who wants to come should be allowed to. There are limits for a reason. No one is saying there shouldn't be the appropriate protocols or background checks or whatever. You're making a slippery slope argument. Talking about immigration reform and working constructively and pragmatically to help eliminate the issue of illegal immigration doesn't necessarily spiral into "anyone who wants to come should be allowed to", without rules and regulations. | ||
heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On July 16 2015 04:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: No one is saying there shouldn't be the appropriate protocols or background checks or whatever. You're making a slippery slope argument. You're misunderstanding but no big deal. I don't mean background checks, obviously legal immigrants get checked. I mean the amount of.people coming over. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 16 2015 04:22 heliusx wrote: You're misunderstanding but no big deal. I don't mean background checks, obviously legal immigrants get checked. I mean the amount of.people coming over. People have literally zero idea what you are talking about because you do not articulate your points. You make one sentence replies with with no further details. No one is advocating for unlimited legal immigration. The current issue with the system is there is not enough legal immigration and the system is cumbersome and costly. Plus the 12 million people here already. Edit: Also, I am phone posting as well. | ||
Introvert
United States4659 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43797 Posts
On July 16 2015 04:22 heliusx wrote: You're misunderstanding but no big deal. I don't mean background checks, obviously legal immigrants get checked. I mean the amount of.people coming over. As in, the number of illegal immigrants who would be allowed to become documented? I can't see the line "America has 320 million people and can't afford to risk its success by allowing 11 million illegal immigrants to enter legally" as anything but laughable... that's roughly the American population and that's how many illegal immigrants we have. And why should it matter at all, as long as these newly legalized immigrants work and contribute to society (although it's not like all currently legal Americans do anyway...). | ||
heliusx
United States2306 Posts
1. Secure the border 2. Amnesty illegals who are not criminals 3. Enforce the immigration quotas Also dark what state do you reside in? and yes as introvert said(a guy I disagree with on almost everything) the order is important. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States43797 Posts
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43797 Posts
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43797 Posts
On July 16 2015 04:51 heliusx wrote: I was just curious, not many Mexicans where I am either. Didn't mean to insinuate you're ignorant on the subject. Well one of my jobs has me working in Newark, specifically at NJIT, which has a very high Hispanic population ![]() | ||
whatisthisasheep
624 Posts
Trump just released his financial disclosure. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/15/1402561/-Donald-Trump-files-financial-disclosure-says-he-is-worth-TEN-BILLION-DOLLARS For Immediate Release: (New York, NY) July 15, 2015 - Today, Donald J. Trump filed his Personal Financial Disclosure (PFD) forms with the Federal Election Commission (FEC). This report was not designed for a man of Mr. Trump's massive wealth. For instance, they have boxes once a certain number is reached that simply state $50 million or more. Many of these boxes have been checked. As an example, if a building owned by Mr. Trump is worth $1.5 billion, the box checked is "$50,000,000 or more." Mr. Trump stated, "First people said I would never run, and I did. Then, they said, I would never file my statement of candidacy with the FEC, and I did. Next, they said I would never file my personal financial disclosure forms. I filed them early despite the fact that I am allowed two 45 days extensions. Now I have surged in the polls and am fighting to Make America Great Again. I look forward to the challenge of winning the presidency and doing a fantastic job for our country. I will make the United States rich and strong and respected again, but also a country with a 'big heart' toward the care of our people." Mr. Trump's net worth has increased since the more than one year old financial statement produced at his presidential announcement. Real estate values in New York City, San Francisco, Miami and many other places where he owns property have gone up considerably during this period of time. His debt is a very small percentage of value, and at very low interest rates. As of this date, Mr. Trump's net worth is in excess of TEN BILLION DOLLARS. | ||
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On July 16 2015 01:14 Sermokala wrote: But the point of those jobs isn't and shouldn't be enough to support a family. They don't produce anything or contribute to the economy in any meaningful way. He bashed scotty (I don't support the guy) because he suggested that the government should be concentrating on training people into new skill positions instead of raising the minimum wage into something people could live off of. The problem with the $15 minimum wage is that it'll eliminate manufacturing jobs and other non service industry jobs that actually contribute to something instead of filling people into a proverty cycle where low level service jobs are all they end up having. Are you fucking serious? This is some of the most insulting, condescending stuff I've heard coming from someone on these boards, and that's saying something. The idea that "these jobs shouldn't be enough to support a family" is utterly ridiculous and screams of privileged ignorance. The reality is that the majority of people aren't intelligent enough or just aren't in a position to "get an education". Society needs workers that only have a high school education, and shouldn't stigmatize this as "settling" or somehow being lesser than having an education and a job correlating to it. The idea that they don't contribute to the economy is a joke; many of the essential services that make your life enjoyable are done by someone without an advanced education that's getting paid crap. "These jobs aren't for supporting families" is utter bullshit. There will always be people to work these jobs because they will always be necessary. They shouldn't be resigned to a life of crushing poverty for it. "Everyone should get an education" is an ignorant pipe dream that isn't even remotely feasible due to the fact that there aren't enough jobs to hire everyone if they were all "educated". This is why you have a huge unemployment rate for college graduates right now, and many of them that are working are working jobs that only require a high school education. | ||
JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On July 16 2015 05:29 Stratos_speAr wrote: Are you fucking serious? This is some of the most insulting, condescending stuff I've heard coming from someone on these boards, and that's saying something. The idea that "these jobs shouldn't be enough to support a family" is utterly ridiculous and screams of privileged ignorance. The reality is that the majority of people aren't intelligent enough or just aren't in a position to "get an education". Society needs workers that only have a high school education, and shouldn't stigmatize this as "settling" or somehow being lesser than having an education and a job correlating to it. The idea that they don't contribute to the economy is a joke; many of the essential services that make your life enjoyable are done by someone without an advanced education that's getting paid crap. "These jobs aren't for supporting families" is utter bullshit. There will always be people to work these jobs because they will always be necessary. They shouldn't be resigned to a life of crushing poverty for it. "Everyone should get an education" is an ignorant pipe dream that isn't even remotely feasible due to the fact that there aren't enough jobs to hire everyone if they were all "educated". This is why you have a huge unemployment rate for college graduates right now, and many of them that are working are working jobs that only require a high school education. I think, in Sermakola's POV (Serma, correct me if I'm wrong) and also some other's POV, minimum wage jobs such as fast food workers are for people to work in part time or during college years etc, as a means of getting money to fund their higher education. Therefore there will always be people in place to work in these jobs - and they will transition out to a better job in time for the next group of people that need those jobs. This is specifically the bottom rung of jobs in a ladder of occupations. | ||
Wolfstan
Canada605 Posts
On July 16 2015 05:29 Stratos_speAr wrote: Are you fucking serious? This is some of the most insulting, condescending stuff I've heard coming from someone on these boards, and that's saying something. The idea that "these jobs shouldn't be enough to support a family" is utterly ridiculous and screams of privileged ignorance. The reality is that the majority of people aren't intelligent enough or just aren't in a position to "get an education". Society needs workers that only have a high school education, and shouldn't stigmatize this as "settling" or somehow being lesser than having an education and a job correlating to it. The idea that they don't contribute to the economy is a joke; many of the essential services that make your life enjoyable are done by someone without an advanced education that's getting paid crap. "These jobs aren't for supporting families" is utter bullshit. There will always be people to work these jobs because they will always be necessary. They shouldn't be resigned to a life of crushing poverty for it. "Everyone should get an education" is an ignorant pipe dream that isn't even remotely feasible due to the fact that there aren't enough jobs to hire everyone if they were all "educated". This is why you have a huge unemployment rate for college graduates right now, and many of them that are working are working jobs that only require a high school education. That's fine just don't make minimum wage Federal, leave it to the states as all regions face different economic realities. They all have different costs of living and some regions have very large economic distortions that shouldn't be a factor for others. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17852 Posts
On July 16 2015 05:58 JinDesu wrote: I think, in Sermakola's POV (Serma, correct me if I'm wrong) and also some other's POV, minimum wage jobs such as fast food workers are for people to work in part time or during college years etc, as a means of getting money to fund their higher education. Therefore there will always be people in place to work in these jobs - and they will transition out to a better job in time for the next group of people that need those jobs. This is specifically the bottom rung of jobs in a ladder of occupations. Fine. Take burger flippers out of the equation. How about trash collectors? Fruit pickers (and other farmhands)? Most factory workers? People working in warehouses? Convenience stores? The list goes on.. and on.. and on.. with jobs that require little to no education and pay shit salaries. And most of those jobs aren´t meant for college kids as a stop-gap while they move on to better things. They are full-time jobs (or more than full-time) that are done, and should be done, by adults. And Sermo is free to go live in some distopia of his own where his fruit doesn´t get picked and his trash isn´t collected, because these jobs "don´t add any value to the economy". | ||
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