EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2106
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13990 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 16 2015 02:38 Sermokala wrote: You say that like more war is a bad thing. Having already set my brother to two separate countries to accomplish almost nothing, I say yes. Also Republicans don't have the fortitude for a real war, because they couldn't deal with the idea of raising taxes to fund it. They just like talking about it. | ||
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
On July 16 2015 02:29 GreenHorizons wrote: Good lord we got the bunk Seattle minimum wage closing restaurants article, and Danglers quoting Bill Kristol and Dick Cheney on the Middle East. The restaurants aren't closing from minimum wage and Kristol and Cheney want war. Is it bunk? I am open to someone showing me the light on this, it just lines up with what I fear is going to happen. Would be happy to be wrong, maybe too soon to say yet. Cheyney wanting war is an obvious no-brainer of course. XD | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44610 Posts
"If we find undocumented/ illegal immigrants in this country, we should work with them so that they can obtain legal/ documented status (through a process that ideally isn't near-impossible to complete) and can continue to live in America and contribute positively to our country, including enjoying benefits and paying their fair share of taxes. If they do not wish to comply and become legal immigrants, then we'll be forced to send them back to their country." What's wrong with focusing on the fact that they *do* want to live here, instead of only trying to find ways to get rid of them? I'm of the impression that illegal immigrants are generally trying to make a better life for themselves/ their families, not that their objective for being here is to "stick it to America" and screw us over. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 16 2015 02:48 screamingpalm wrote: Is it bunk? I am open to someone showing me the light on this, it just lines up with what I fear is going to happen. Would be happy to be wrong, maybe too soon to say yet. Cheyney wanting war is an obvious no-brainer of course. XD From my brief review online, there seems to be a lot of conflicting evidence, specifically that they were shutting down in advance of the law. http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2015/03/22/minimum-wage-increase-killing-seattle-restaurants-anatomy-of-a-lie-from-inside-the-bubble/ Although I think it might be a factor of some less profitable restaurants closing, I there is a lot of evidence that its the direct cause. On July 16 2015 02:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I have a question about illegal immigration. Is there something wrong with taking the approach of: "If we find undocumented/ illegal immigrants in this country, we should work with them so that they can obtain legal/ documented status (through a process that ideally isn't near-impossible to complete) and can continue to live in America and contribute positively to our country, including enjoying benefits and paying their fair share of taxes. If they do not wish to comply and become legal immigrants, then we'll be forced to send them back to their country." What's wrong with focusing on the fact that they *do* want to live here, instead of only trying to find ways to get rid of them? I'm of the impression that illegal immigrants are generally trying to make a better life for themselves/ their families, not that their objective for being here is to "stick it to America" and screw us over. Nothing and it would likely be cheaper than deporting them all just to have them come back. The problem is that a section of the population doesn't like the idea of more immigrants living here and taking jobs. And by jobs, I mean maybe voting at some point down the road. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 16 2015 03:07 heliusx wrote: How you see nothing wrong with that is beyond me. Immigration rules are in place for a reason. Its called wanting to fix the problem, rather than stand on principle. The US immigration system has been broken for well over a decade and deporting illegal won't stop them from coming back. Plus anyone who preforms the mass deportations will anger a lot of the legal Hispanic Americans who are a growing population in a number of states. As always, I don't want to beat them, I want to win. | ||
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
On July 16 2015 02:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I have a question about illegal immigration. Is there something wrong with taking the approach of: "If we find undocumented/ illegal immigrants in this country, we should work with them so that they can obtain legal/ documented status (through a process that ideally isn't near-impossible to complete) and can continue to live in America and contribute positively to our country, including enjoying benefits and paying their fair share of taxes. If they do not wish to comply and become legal immigrants, then we'll be forced to send them back to their country." What's wrong with focusing on the fact that they *do* want to live here, instead of only trying to find ways to get rid of them? I'm of the impression that illegal immigrants are generally trying to make a better life for themselves/ their families, not that their objective for being here is to "stick it to America" and screw us over. I agree. I liked O'Malley's stance on the issue. "The enduring symbol of America is not the barbed wire fence,” O’Malley said. “It is the Statue of Liberty.” He's seems to be more progressive than even Sanders on many issues. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/gonzalez-martin-o-malley-bold-immigration-reform-plan-article-1.2292549 Trump's grandfather was an "illegal immigrant" btw... so was Reagan's. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 16 2015 03:23 heliusx wrote: Rewarding border hoppers is nothing close to "fixing immigration". Got any other points beyond "I don't like it"? Deporting 12 million people, AKA, more that the population of NYC, isn't really fixing it either. And they would just come back. | ||
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i61.tinypic.com/2uy1tsy.jpg) User was warned for this post | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44610 Posts
On July 16 2015 03:23 heliusx wrote: Rewarding border hoppers is nothing close to "fixing immigration". Yeah but I think an appropriate question would be "Why are they hopping the border in the first place" and the answer to that is "Because they're not allowed to stroll through the front door." | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23298 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 16 2015 03:35 heliusx wrote: I dunno bro, how about the basics? Secure the fucking border, amnesty illegals who are not criminals and start again? I've never voted R even once either so don't bother with your typical bs. That is literally what we just were talking about. Allowing folks to get work visas and stay in the country. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18055 Posts
On July 16 2015 01:14 Sermokala wrote: But the point of those jobs isn't and shouldn't be enough to support a family. They don't produce anything or contribute to the economy in any meaningful way. He bashed scotty (I don't support the guy) because he suggested that the government should be concentrating on training people into new skill positions instead of raising the minimum wage into something people could live off of. The problem with the $15 minimum wage is that it'll eliminate manufacturing jobs and other non service industry jobs that actually contribute to something instead of filling people into a proverty cycle where low level service jobs are all they end up having. What jobs shouldn't support a family? A full-time job at a fast-food joint? Wallmarts? A tomato farm? Collecting trash? What should all the uneducated masses do for a living, if all jobs for uneducated people "shouldn't be enough to support a family"? And don't feed me some bullshit about all the uneducated people should get educated, because 1) that's a pipe dream and 2) there aren't enough jobs for that many educated people. If you have a full-time job, you should be able to make a living off it. Maybe not a great living, but rent a flat, buy food, send your kids to public school should be within your financial ability. Not require government subsidized foodstamps, because your full-time job doesn't pay you enough to buy food... | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44610 Posts
On July 16 2015 03:47 heliusx wrote: I don't mean amnesty in the future. I mean after the border is secure. Wouldn't making it easier for immigrants to obtain legalization/ documentation be a huge help to "securing our borders"? That phrase seems to be a buzzphrase/ catchphrase for a ton of politicians who have no specific ideas on how to do it, anyway. (Unless you're Trump, in which | ||
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Simberto
Germany11557 Posts
On July 16 2015 03:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Yeah but I think an appropriate question would be "Why are they hopping the border in the first place" and the answer to that is "Because they're not allowed to stroll through the front door." Also "Because mexico and a lot of latin america is a shithole full of murderous cartels due to the wonderful idea called "war on drugs"" | ||
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