US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1949
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KwarK
United States42698 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44353 Posts
On May 13 2015 01:25 cLutZ wrote: Also you are probably underestimating the Central/South American population. Christians from those countries are majority Catholic. I think this data is for the United States only though, so the reference to "American Christians" has been (United States of) rather than (North/South continents). | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 13 2015 01:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think this data is for the United States only though, so the reference to "American Christians" has been (United States of) rather than (North/South continents). Immigrants/1st/2nd/etc generation. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44353 Posts
Ah okay ![]() | ||
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On May 12 2015 23:53 Nyxisto wrote: I think radical Christians suffer from the same thing parts of the Muslim world suffer from, which is a hate for religious institutions. The whole emphasis on taking scripture literally and having nobody between "man and god" produces some kind of tribal situation where small communities all have their own isolated teachings and preachers and there is absolutely no exchange of ideas happening. yea, the problem is people not blindly following authorities. crisp analysis | ||
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Reminds me of people who don't follow 'mainstream' media but instead chose to follow conspiracy blogs because you just can't trust the evil industrial media complex. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44353 Posts
On May 13 2015 01:36 Paljas wrote: yea, the problem is people not blindly following authorities. crisp analysis Isn't that rather ironic though, for those who have faith in the supernatural? | ||
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On May 13 2015 01:40 Nyxisto wrote: There's a lot of space between rejecting any form of authority, including legitimate authority, and blindly following the dear leader. Actually some level of centralized organisation is great at sorting out extremism, which is something quite a lot of religious groups are in dire need off. Reminds me of people who don't follow 'mainstream' media but instead chose to follow conspiracy blogs because you just can't trust the evil industrial media complex. centralized organisation is also great at institutionalizing extremism, as shown by history of the world biggest religion. i also dont quite understand why you claim that taking scripture literally is exclusive to non organised religion and why you equate religious organisation to a middle man with god. people are no sheep, they are very well capable to make sensible interpretation of the scripture without anyone telling them how to do it. @DarkPlasmaBall Nyxisto's legitimate religious authority is more ironic | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44353 Posts
On May 13 2015 02:09 Paljas wrote: centralized organisation is also great at institutionalizing extremism, as shown by history of the world biggest religion. i also dont quite understand why you claim that taking scripture literally is exclusive to non organised religion and why you equate religious organisation to a middle man with god. people are no sheep, they are very well capable to make sensible interpretation of the scripture without anyone telling them how to do it. @DarkPlasmaBall Nyxisto's legitimate religious authority is more ironic Agreed. | ||
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On May 13 2015 02:09 Paljas wrote: centralized organisation is also great at institutionalizing extremism, as shown by history of the world biggest religion. And this is why we should teach history better. The Catholic church, for all its many faults (I'm a Presbyterian and they spent a lot of time and money trying to wipe us out) has generally been a pretty solid bulwark against extremism. They were broadly anti-war, strongly against harming non-combatants, quite consistently stood against anti-Jewish violence (often sheltering fleeing Jews), and opposed the Spanish Inquisition. But I know, atheistic narrative, religion bad, etc. (Because we all know atheists never engage in repression of infidels, ideological violence, suicide bombing, terrorism, and mass killings) On May 12 2015 23:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The table does have a category for "historically black" Christian denominations, but I certainly think it would be cool if they cross-referenced religion with race/ ethnicity as well. I'd imagine that if every sect of Christianity was included on the table, it would be twice as long and have a lot of 0.1% rows. I think this data is trying to show the heavy hitters and the different religions overall. Historically black churches are on the table, as I said, but they are excluded from the chart (along with Mormons and some). They are absolutely sizable enough to matter, especially given their beyond-numbers attendance and intellectual life/social engagement. They're also politically important, because if the Republicans ever get their shit together, they are the obvious target for large-scale defections away from the Democrats. Blacks have been taken for granted by the Democrats for a long time, but Dems get away with it because the Republicans look so much worse. Churches are the main structure that would be organized enough to actually effect a major defection, if the Republicans are able to make a good pitch. | ||
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Grass roots democratic movements aren't automatically humanist and progressive, quite the opposite actually most of the time. | ||
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
the spanish inquisition was also not the only inquisition and is for itself also a terrible argument in favor of religous organisations based on authority also no idea why yoav is already coming up with that atheist strawman. i actually defended peoples choice to be religious without the need to follow an authority. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On May 13 2015 03:06 IgnE wrote: Anti-semitism started with Luther? the modern incarnation and revitalisation of it was heavily influenced by him | ||
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23238 Posts
As if they didn't realize Christians have held and hold practically every important position in government and business. Hell republicans have 1 non-christian in their entire national representation (house and senate). Which means the republican representation is 99.7% Christian. the one non-Christian being Jewish. They almost had 0 non-Christians but picked one up when they lost one. Congress is 80 percent white, an equal amount male, and 92 percent Christian Republican's in congress are ~87% white males and 99.7% Christian America is about 70% white (or 30% non-white) ~50% women ~75% Christian Republicans in congress don't look anything like America. America has had a long history of benefiting from abusing certain groups, what we are seeing manifest is the sheer terror that white men are facing from confronting the reality that they are losing absolute control. It's best personified by people like O'Reilly and Hannity. The mere visage of white Christians losing total dominance is enough to conjure specters of an impending end of Christianity and freedom of religion. If people think American Christians have it bad, just wait until it's non-white non-Christian people in the majority in the US (white Christians are already severely outnumbered globally). It's only a few decades away... When all the arguments white (primarily Christian) males have made against discrimination and racial prejudice get thrown back in their face because they have lost control of the system and are now on the other side of it, it will probably incense them to riot like they just won/lost a championship or worse. Then we'll have commentators asking what's wrong with the white community that even after hundreds of years of oppressing everyone else they still have so many poor people who often turn to a life of crime. How almost 40 exclusively white administrations couldn't help with so much white poverty and crime. How even when white people controlled everything there has always been more white people on government aid than any other group. It will get mentioned that even though only 30% of congress is white they still hold a larger share of representation (proportionally to their population too) than say black people did when Obama was elected. So why are they complaining? On May 13 2015 02:43 Yoav wrote: And this is why we should teach history better. The Catholic church, for all its many faults (I'm a Presbyterian and they spent a lot of time and money trying to wipe us out) has generally been a pretty solid bulwark against extremism. They were broadly anti-war, strongly against harming non-combatants, quite consistently stood against anti-Jewish violence (often sheltering fleeing Jews), and opposed the Spanish Inquisition. But I know, atheistic narrative, religion bad, etc. (Because we all know atheists never engage in repression of infidels, ideological violence, suicide bombing, terrorism, and mass killings) Historically black churches are on the table, as I said, but they are excluded from the chart (along with Mormons and some). They are absolutely sizable enough to matter, especially given their beyond-numbers attendance and intellectual life/social engagement. They're also politically important, because if the Republicans ever get their shit together, they are the obvious target for large-scale defections away from the Democrats. Blacks have been taken for granted by the Democrats for a long time, but Dems get away with it because the Republicans look so much worse. Churches are the main structure that would be organized enough to actually effect a major defection, if the Republicans are able to make a good pitch. Republicans have 0 to offer to get the black vote. The only thing black churches and Republicans agree on is being anti-gay marriage, but even there the Republicans are moving slower than the people. Rand Paul had the best chance to get some semblance of the black vote and then he said this about Baltimore... “I came through the train on Baltimore last night,” Paul told host Laura Ingraham. “I’m glad the train didn’t stop.” The senator’s breezy response came just before he blamed the violent uprising there on “the breakdown of the family structure, the lack of fathers, the lack of sort of a moral code in our society.” He also expressed his sympathy for “the plight of police,” all without speaking to the circumstances surrounding the troubling death of Freddie Gray in the custody of Baltimore Police. So no, Republicans would be lucky to see 10% of the black vote. | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Then we'll have commentators asking what's wrong with the white community that even after hundreds of years of oppressing everyone else they still have so many poor people who often turn to a life of crime. How almost 40 exclusively white administrations couldn't help with so much white poverty and crime. How even when white people controlled everything there has always been more white people on government aid than any other group. Oh fuck off, maybe it's because when white people are in government they don't exclusively focus on the needs of white people? And this is a bad thing? Identity politics is a fucking distraction from things that actually matter. Minorities are going to become better represented over time, chill out, it's a process | ||
GreenHorizons
United States23238 Posts
On May 13 2015 03:40 Chocolate wrote: The way elections work in this country ensure that the majority of the population (if this majority is rather ubiquitious, like with % of people that are religious) will be overrepresented in government. I don't think you should antagonize Republicans for their demographics, they represent their electorate decently well (other than in terms of gender, but they tend to be more religious/conservative and so women may not even want to run). Oh fuck off, maybe it's because when white people are in government they don't exclusively focus on the needs of white people? And this is a bad thing? lol, you realize every time anything racial comes up that line (or some variation) is trotted out about Obama and the black community. It's pretty funny that it would upset you, and suddenly the non-sensible nature of the comment becomes readily apparent. Even though 40 administrations is a long time and many of them certainly did focus exclusively on white issues. For several administrations black people weren't even considered people,let alone constituents or Americans. If black people don't have an excuse for poverty and crime related to historical transgressions than white people have even less of an excuse for all the poverty and crime we see in their communities. They were practically the only ones legally able to own land when the government was handing it out for free, yet there are still sooo many impoverished white folk, what's wrong with their communities that even after hundreds of years of oppressing their competition so many white folk are still so poor? Why after dozens of white administrations do white people still suck up the majority of government aid. What is wrong with the white community that they still aren't on their feet? Whites were never property in the United States, they never had laws that deprived their right to own land because they were white? Whites have had every opportunity to pick themselves up or just take one of countless hand-out/ups from the government like free land, 0% minority representation, slave labor, etc... Yet with all of that and more white people still suck up more government aid than any other group. | ||
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