|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
America’s Changing Religious Landscape
Christians Decline Sharply as Share of Population; Unaffiliated and Other Faiths Continue to Grow The Christian share of the U.S. population is declining, while the number of U.S. adults who do not identify with any organized religion is growing, according to an extensive new survey by the Pew Research Center. Moreover, these changes are taking place across the religious landscape, affecting all regions of the country and many demographic groups. While the drop in Christian affiliation is particularly pronounced among young adults, it is occurring among Americans of all ages. The same trends are seen among whites, blacks and Latinos; among both college graduates and adults with only a high school education; and among women as well as men. To be sure, the United States remains home to more Christians than any other country in the world, and a large majority of Americans – roughly seven-in-ten – continue to identify with some branch of the Christian faith.1 But the major new survey of more than 35,000 Americans by the Pew Research Center finds that the percentage of adults (ages 18 and older) who describe themselves as Christians has dropped by nearly eight percentage points in just seven years, from 78.4% in an equally massive Pew Research survey in 2007 to 70.6% in 2014. Over the same period, the percentage of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated – describing themselves as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular” – has jumped more than six points, from 16.1% to 22.8%. And the share of Americans who identify with non-Christian faiths also has inched up, rising 1.2 percentage points, from 4.7% in 2007 to 5.9% in 2014. Growth has been especially great among Muslims and Hindus, albeit from a very low base. Christians Decline as Share of U.S. Population; Other Faiths and the Unaffiliated Are GrowingThe drop in the Christian share of the population has been driven mainly by declines among mainline Protestants and Catholics. Each of those large religious traditions has shrunk by approximately three percentage points since 2007. The evangelical Protestant share of the U.S. population also has dipped, but at a slower rate, falling by about one percentage point since 2007.2 Even as their numbers decline, American Christians – like the U.S. population as a whole – are becoming more racially and ethnically diverse. Non-Hispanic whites now account for smaller shares of evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics than they did seven years earlier, while Hispanics have grown as a share of all three religious groups. Racial and ethnic minorities now make up 41% of Catholics (up from 35% in 2007), 24% of evangelical Protestants (up from 19%) and 14% of mainline Protestants (up from 9%). ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hVHXBAp.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/08EwXs2.png)
(even more information at http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/ )
There are about 4 times as many non-religious Americans (atheists, agnostics, etc.) as there are non-Christian faith Americans (Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc.);
the non-religious demographic continues to increase steadily to nearly 1/4 of all Americans;
the number of non-religious Americans now outnumbers the number of American Catholics;
and Christian faith Americans still make up a large majority, although dropping steadily to around 70%.
I wonder if 23% is a big enough chunk of the American population for non-religious people to become part of the consideration when every American politician metaphorically gives the Christian god a blowjob during and at the end of every speech. Politicians also seem to have a lot more conversations about non-Christian faiths than they do about non-religious people.
|
On May 12 2015 22:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +America’s Changing Religious Landscape
Christians Decline Sharply as Share of Population; Unaffiliated and Other Faiths Continue to Grow The Christian share of the U.S. population is declining, while the number of U.S. adults who do not identify with any organized religion is growing, according to an extensive new survey by the Pew Research Center. Moreover, these changes are taking place across the religious landscape, affecting all regions of the country and many demographic groups. While the drop in Christian affiliation is particularly pronounced among young adults, it is occurring among Americans of all ages. The same trends are seen among whites, blacks and Latinos; among both college graduates and adults with only a high school education; and among women as well as men. To be sure, the United States remains home to more Christians than any other country in the world, and a large majority of Americans – roughly seven-in-ten – continue to identify with some branch of the Christian faith.1 But the major new survey of more than 35,000 Americans by the Pew Research Center finds that the percentage of adults (ages 18 and older) who describe themselves as Christians has dropped by nearly eight percentage points in just seven years, from 78.4% in an equally massive Pew Research survey in 2007 to 70.6% in 2014. Over the same period, the percentage of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated – describing themselves as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular” – has jumped more than six points, from 16.1% to 22.8%. And the share of Americans who identify with non-Christian faiths also has inched up, rising 1.2 percentage points, from 4.7% in 2007 to 5.9% in 2014. Growth has been especially great among Muslims and Hindus, albeit from a very low base. Christians Decline as Share of U.S. Population; Other Faiths and the Unaffiliated Are GrowingThe drop in the Christian share of the population has been driven mainly by declines among mainline Protestants and Catholics. Each of those large religious traditions has shrunk by approximately three percentage points since 2007. The evangelical Protestant share of the U.S. population also has dipped, but at a slower rate, falling by about one percentage point since 2007.2 Even as their numbers decline, American Christians – like the U.S. population as a whole – are becoming more racially and ethnically diverse. Non-Hispanic whites now account for smaller shares of evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics than they did seven years earlier, while Hispanics have grown as a share of all three religious groups. Racial and ethnic minorities now make up 41% of Catholics (up from 35% in 2007), 24% of evangelical Protestants (up from 19%) and 14% of mainline Protestants (up from 9%). (even more information at http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/ ) There are about 4 times as many non-religious Americans (atheists, agnostics, etc.) as there are non-Christian faith Americans (Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc.); the non-religious demographic continues to increase steadily to nearly 1/4 of all Americans; and Christian faith Americans still make up a large majority, although dropping steadily to around 70%. I wonder if 23% is a big enough chunk of the American population for non-religious people to become part of the consideration when every American politician metaphorically gives the Christian god a blowjob during and at the end of every speech. Politicians also seem to have a lot more conversations about non-Christian faiths than they do about non-religious people.
Can I emphatically bitch about Pew not even including historically black denominations on the chart (it's in the data)? I mean, we already basically erase black folks from any discussion of religion in the US, which is just frankly bizarre. It's outrageous, and paints a more realistic picture than "white evangelicals are all there is to American Christianity." The US is 70% nominally Christian... "Evangelicals" are, in this poll, 25% of the population, which sounds about right. They're about a third of American Christianity. So yeah, why every politician acts like Jerry Falwell speaks for all American Christians is quite beyond my comprehension. I'll give evangelicals that they're good at outreach and the increasingly voluntary nature of religion has been good to them. I hope in my life to be a part of the outreach mainliners do to keep from getting too small in the US religious scene.
|
You have to admit Christians in the US are pretty weird. Somehow all the crazy ones have moved to the US, you just don't find these hardcore evangelical people anywhere else, at least in these numbers. Just like free speech discussion I also think that freedom of religion is going a bit too far into the wrong direction. When I saw a Scientology commercial during last year's Superbowl I though that I had lost my mind.
|
On May 12 2015 23:21 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2015 22:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:America’s Changing Religious Landscape
Christians Decline Sharply as Share of Population; Unaffiliated and Other Faiths Continue to Grow The Christian share of the U.S. population is declining, while the number of U.S. adults who do not identify with any organized religion is growing, according to an extensive new survey by the Pew Research Center. Moreover, these changes are taking place across the religious landscape, affecting all regions of the country and many demographic groups. While the drop in Christian affiliation is particularly pronounced among young adults, it is occurring among Americans of all ages. The same trends are seen among whites, blacks and Latinos; among both college graduates and adults with only a high school education; and among women as well as men. To be sure, the United States remains home to more Christians than any other country in the world, and a large majority of Americans – roughly seven-in-ten – continue to identify with some branch of the Christian faith.1 But the major new survey of more than 35,000 Americans by the Pew Research Center finds that the percentage of adults (ages 18 and older) who describe themselves as Christians has dropped by nearly eight percentage points in just seven years, from 78.4% in an equally massive Pew Research survey in 2007 to 70.6% in 2014. Over the same period, the percentage of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated – describing themselves as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular” – has jumped more than six points, from 16.1% to 22.8%. And the share of Americans who identify with non-Christian faiths also has inched up, rising 1.2 percentage points, from 4.7% in 2007 to 5.9% in 2014. Growth has been especially great among Muslims and Hindus, albeit from a very low base. Christians Decline as Share of U.S. Population; Other Faiths and the Unaffiliated Are GrowingThe drop in the Christian share of the population has been driven mainly by declines among mainline Protestants and Catholics. Each of those large religious traditions has shrunk by approximately three percentage points since 2007. The evangelical Protestant share of the U.S. population also has dipped, but at a slower rate, falling by about one percentage point since 2007.2 Even as their numbers decline, American Christians – like the U.S. population as a whole – are becoming more racially and ethnically diverse. Non-Hispanic whites now account for smaller shares of evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics than they did seven years earlier, while Hispanics have grown as a share of all three religious groups. Racial and ethnic minorities now make up 41% of Catholics (up from 35% in 2007), 24% of evangelical Protestants (up from 19%) and 14% of mainline Protestants (up from 9%). (even more information at http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/ ) There are about 4 times as many non-religious Americans (atheists, agnostics, etc.) as there are non-Christian faith Americans (Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc.); the non-religious demographic continues to increase steadily to nearly 1/4 of all Americans; and Christian faith Americans still make up a large majority, although dropping steadily to around 70%. I wonder if 23% is a big enough chunk of the American population for non-religious people to become part of the consideration when every American politician metaphorically gives the Christian god a blowjob during and at the end of every speech. Politicians also seem to have a lot more conversations about non-Christian faiths than they do about non-religious people. Can I emphatically bitch about Pew not even including historically black denominations on the chart (it's in the data)? I mean, we already basically erase black folks from any discussion of religion in the US, which is just frankly bizarre. It's outrageous, and paints a more realistic picture than "white evangelicals are all there is to American Christianity." The US is 70% nominally Christian... "Evangelicals" are, in this poll, 25% of the population, which sounds about right. They're about a third of American Christianity. So yeah, why every politician acts like Jerry Falwell speaks for all American Christians is quite beyond my comprehension. I'll give evangelicals that they're good at outreach and the increasingly voluntary nature of religion has been good to them. I hope in my life to be a part of the outreach mainliners do to keep from getting too small in the US religious scene.
The table does have a category for "historically black" Christian denominations, but I certainly think it would be cool if they cross-referenced religion with race/ ethnicity as well. I'd imagine that if every sect of Christianity was included on the table, it would be twice as long and have a lot of 0.1% rows. I think this data is trying to show the heavy hitters and the different religions overall.
|
On May 12 2015 23:45 Nyxisto wrote:
You have to admit Christians in the US are pretty weird. Somehow all the crazy ones have moved to the US, you just don't find these hardcore evangelical people anywhere else, at least in these numbers. Just like free speech discussion I also think that freedom of religion is going a bit too far into the wrong direction. When I saw a Scientology commercial during last year's Superbowl I though that I had lost my mind.
I chalk it up to the United States still being very young and immature in a lot of ways, but I think that in 2-3 more generations, non-religious Americans will be roughly the same number as Christian Americans.
EDIT: I'm sure our culture has something to do with breeding fundamentalists and extremists... I wonder if there are any parallels to be drawn between the culture/ religions of the Middle East (and that level of fanaticism) and those here in America.
|
I think radical Christians suffer from the same thing parts of the Muslim world suffer from, which is a hate for religious institutions. The whole emphasis on taking scripture literally and having nobody between "man and god" produces some kind of tribal situation where small communities all have their own isolated teachings and preachers and there is absolutely no exchange of ideas happening.
|
On May 12 2015 23:45 Nyxisto wrote:
You have to admit Christians in the US are pretty weird. Somehow all the crazy ones have moved to the US, you just don't find these hardcore evangelical people anywhere else, at least in these numbers. Just like free speech discussion I also think that freedom of religion is going a bit too far into the wrong direction. When I saw a Scientology commercial during last year's Superbowl I though that I had lost my mind.
The reason the US has so many Protestants has to do with the fact they were heavily persecuted in Europe so they came here. Europe tends to have that sort of mindset on a whole range of things as evidenced by your trope about having too much 'freedoms'. I was born in St. Petersburg, and Clearwater is like 15 mins away. Yes, Scientology folks are out there, but why on Earth would you advocate persecution? If anything we need to extend the same freedoms that religious folks have to all other activities, thoughts, ideas, etc.
The same goes for the crazy Christian folk who think non-religious, atheists, agnostics, etc. are some pox to be routed out and chastised. Too many people are too focused on other peoples personal thoughts and beliefs.
Before anyone asks I am in the group of I don't give a fuck about religion (areligious), but like any decent person will defend everyones rights.
|
I'm saying that Scientology shouldn't qualify as a religion, not that you impale their members. They're not a genuine religion, they're a money generating cult which indoctrinates people and threatens them if they want to leave.
|
On May 12 2015 23:58 Nyxisto wrote:
I'm saying that Scientology shouldn't qualify as a religion, not that you impale their members. They're not a genuine religion, they're a money generating cult which indoctrinates people and threatens them if they want to leave.
That's a pretty apt description of many religions though.
A lot of people prefer to use the term Spiritual instead of Religious because of the problems that organized religion has had (and because that usually means you have to fit a certain stereotypical mold of whatever sect you say you're a part of).
|
United States44439 Posts
On May 12 2015 23:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2015 23:58 Nyxisto wrote:
I'm saying that Scientology shouldn't qualify as a religion, not that you impale their members. They're not a genuine religion, they're a money generating cult which indoctrinates people and threatens them if they want to leave. So then they're a religion. A lot of people prefer to use the term Spiritual instead of Religious because of the problems that organized religion has had (and because that usually means you have to fit a certain stereotypical mold of whatever sect you say you're a part of).
They've not been around for long enough yet to be a proper religion.
|
On May 13 2015 00:02 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2015 23:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2015 23:58 Nyxisto wrote:
I'm saying that Scientology shouldn't qualify as a religion, not that you impale their members. They're not a genuine religion, they're a money generating cult which indoctrinates people and threatens them if they want to leave. So then they're a religion. A lot of people prefer to use the term Spiritual instead of Religious because of the problems that organized religion has had (and because that usually means you have to fit a certain stereotypical mold of whatever sect you say you're a part of). They've not been around for long enough yet to be a proper religion.
Indeed. The only differences between a cult and a religion are longevity and popularity. And then when they fade, they become mythology.
|
Also one of them has produced countless of serious thinkers while the other consists of Hollywood celebrities,crazy people and lawyers. all legitimate criticism aside, you can't seriously argue that the only difference between Scientology and mainstream religions is the age.
|
On May 13 2015 00:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 00:02 KwarK wrote:On May 12 2015 23:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2015 23:58 Nyxisto wrote:
I'm saying that Scientology shouldn't qualify as a religion, not that you impale their members. They're not a genuine religion, they're a money generating cult which indoctrinates people and threatens them if they want to leave. So then they're a religion. A lot of people prefer to use the term Spiritual instead of Religious because of the problems that organized religion has had (and because that usually means you have to fit a certain stereotypical mold of whatever sect you say you're a part of). They've not been around for long enough yet to be a proper religion. Indeed. The only differences between a cult and a religion are longevity and popularity. And then when they fade, they become mythology.
"The only differences..."
No, there are others.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
religion vs cult is pretty useless of a discussion. some religious doctrines etc are better than others. i'd look at the content of belief and practices.
|
United States44439 Posts
On May 13 2015 00:18 Nyxisto wrote:
Also one of them has produced countless of serious thinkers while the other consists of Hollywood celebrities,crazy people and lawyers. all legitimate criticism aside, you can't seriously argue that the only difference between Scientology and mainstream religions is the age.
I think it's a little dishonest to use the lack of Hollywood celebrities among the early converts to Christianity as a tool to legitimize it. There weren't any Hollywood celebrities around at the time. However there are plenty endorsing it now, far more than those who endorse Scientology.
|
On May 13 2015 00:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 00:18 Nyxisto wrote:
Also one of them has produced countless of serious thinkers while the other consists of Hollywood celebrities,crazy people and lawyers. all legitimate criticism aside, you can't seriously argue that the only difference between Scientology and mainstream religions is the age. I think it's a little dishonest to use the lack of Hollywood celebrities among the early converts to Christianity as a tool to legitimize it. There weren't any Hollywood celebrities around at the time. However there are plenty endorsing it now, far more than those who endorse Scientology.
I don't think anyone is going to be betting that Scientology will ever produce an Augustine or Thomas Aquinas in the next millennium.
|
On May 13 2015 00:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 00:18 Nyxisto wrote:
Also one of them has produced countless of serious thinkers while the other consists of Hollywood celebrities,crazy people and lawyers. all legitimate criticism aside, you can't seriously argue that the only difference between Scientology and mainstream religions is the age. I think it's a little dishonest to use the lack of Hollywood celebrities among the early converts to Christianity as a tool to legitimize it. There weren't any Hollywood celebrities around at the time. However there are plenty endorsing it now, far more than those who endorse Scientology.
Plus, for every great Christian thinker, there are many more crazy Christian nutjobs, and this doesn't even cover the 95+% of Christians who are just "normal" people. And I think you can replace Christian with any other popular global religion (or non-religious affiliation, for that matter). The people in any given religious group are probably normally distributed in terms of common sense.
|
On May 13 2015 00:54 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 00:34 KwarK wrote:On May 13 2015 00:18 Nyxisto wrote:
Also one of them has produced countless of serious thinkers while the other consists of Hollywood celebrities,crazy people and lawyers. all legitimate criticism aside, you can't seriously argue that the only difference between Scientology and mainstream religions is the age. I think it's a little dishonest to use the lack of Hollywood celebrities among the early converts to Christianity as a tool to legitimize it. There weren't any Hollywood celebrities around at the time. However there are plenty endorsing it now, far more than those who endorse Scientology. I don't think anyone is going to be betting that Scientology will ever produce an Augustine or Thomas Aquinas in the next millennium.
Nor will scientology ever produce the innumerable Christian psychos on the other side of the spectrum. Christianity is so popular (and certainly compared to scientology) that the countless affects that Christianity has had on the world (both positive and negative) will always be magnified compared to cults like scientology. Both the best and the worst of the Christian religion will be far better or far worse than anything scientology could muster, because it's a numbers game.
|
United States44439 Posts
On May 13 2015 00:54 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 00:34 KwarK wrote:On May 13 2015 00:18 Nyxisto wrote:
Also one of them has produced countless of serious thinkers while the other consists of Hollywood celebrities,crazy people and lawyers. all legitimate criticism aside, you can't seriously argue that the only difference between Scientology and mainstream religions is the age. I think it's a little dishonest to use the lack of Hollywood celebrities among the early converts to Christianity as a tool to legitimize it. There weren't any Hollywood celebrities around at the time. However there are plenty endorsing it now, far more than those who endorse Scientology. I don't think anyone is going to be betting that Scientology will ever produce an Augustine or Thomas Aquinas in the next millennium.
It's also a little unlikely that civilisation will collapse and that Scientology will be the sole guardian of literacy and knowledge and the ultimate arbiter of what is preserved for future generations.
You must recognize that history has an extremely pro-Christian selection bias. Not only were all the people writing things down Christian but also all the people preserving those writings, which was an extremely costly and labour intensive task, were doing so because they thought the writings had value to Christianity. That's one hell of a screening process.
Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that the church saved as much as it did, without it our knowledge of the ancient world would be far worse, but there is absolutely no reason to suppose that Aquinas was unique. He was simply uniquely preserved.
Let's put it another way. Do you really think the entire female gender was unable to come up with an Augustine or Aquinas from 500 to 1500 or do you think it might have been other factors at play?
|
1/4 to 1/3 of american christians are catholic. That's something I didn't know (thought it would be less).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
