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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
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Well if you're allowed to drive one of these bad boys I really do understand why you wouldn't care about traffic...
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United States42777 Posts
I disagree. The opinion of a lot of Americans, both those I've interacted with since being in the US and those in this topic, is that police violence is not a failure of policing. That sometimes it is appropriate, or necessary, or even deserved. That's the cultural divide between Europe and America, although many Europeans fall on the side I've arbitrarily called "American" and many Americans agree with the "European" side.
The police do not administer justice. They are not empowered to do so, and they should not be. That is what separates the police from an occupying force. They are empowered to protect society by allowing the justice system, of which they are not a part, to do its job. There is a crucial difference there. You need police so that people who break the law can have their day in court and be judged by their peers/an appointed judge but the police themselves do not administer justice.
If a police is forced to kill a suspect in self defence that is a failure of policing. The suspect never made it to court, they were never judged, they were killed. Sometimes it is unavoidable and in those cases so be it but it is still a failure of policing, in an ideal world the police would have been trained, equipped and prepared to resolve the situation without a loss of life. Too often I see "well that's what happens" or "well he deserved it" or "he was a criminal" as if they changes anything. Even if the person had committed a crime that is punished by death they still need their day in court.
When the police get away with taking justice into their own hands, and in my city they have gotten away with it far too much for far too long (Albuquerque, DoJ recently tore into them for their routine killing/beating of unarmed civilians), the contract between police and society has been broken.
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On April 30 2015 07:35 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote:I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening.Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I can not and will not believe that somebody can be this vocal about a topic he has so little clue about. Is that correct? IIRC police have been using firearms less, etc. However, I'm hardly an expert so the question is honest. Good data seems hard to get, as apparently american police departments still have not gotten their act together on reporting incidents and accounting for every shot they fired.
The FBI understates the true incidence but their numbers show a slight upward trend surpassing levels of 1994 when there were much higher crime levels (as you previously documented) http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homicide_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls
vs http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ph98.pdf
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On April 30 2015 07:47 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:42 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:30 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:14 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:08 Jormundr wrote: So far you have posited: -Always gunfights/car chases -always murdering innocents -Some unsubstantiated stuff about how gangs r tuffer in the US, dem boyz in blue gotta b strong Hard to take you seriously.
I never said always. I find it very hard to believe though, that a significant number of police killings are as controversial as the few that have made the news lately. I'm sure some are not legitimate, but to claim that the number of killings alone, regardless of their legitimacy, is evidence that something is wrong is ridiculous. Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I think you're jumping to conclusions; that I think cops are all saints. I don't. They need better oversight. They should have mandatory cameras. The War on Drugs needs to end. They need to get rid of fines. But they're not all murdering, racist thugs either. Independent investigations too right? Which we all know is what we don't have in Baltimore? At least tell me that fact got through? Yeah, independent investigations too. On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote: I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers
your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening. All I am saying is that it is possible that the police need to kill more here than the police in Germany. I am saying a comparison based solely on the total number is ridiculous. Germany had ~3000 traffic fatalities in 2013. The US had ~36000. Following your kind of logic, drivers in the US are horrible. Damn I really wanted to try to defend your position since you acknowledged we should have independent investigations and that's not what's happening in Baltimore, but damn... US drivers are much worse than German drivers (along with our laws again). Obviously there are lots of factors but that's a terrible example lol. And yet the comparison of police killing statistics in the US and in Germany is thrown around as if the only factor is that German police are all kind pacifists while American police are all jackbooted thugs looking to murder. There has been no appreciation from puerk or Jormundr that there is likely more at work here than simple total # of killings can tell us. Well, this seems to be supported. Crime has been declining. Police violence has been decreasing. And while I cannot confirm, I really doubt that crime is down because of police being more thuggish. Uh huh. That has got nothing to do with what I said. Which is that the comparison between the US and Germany, based solely on the number killed, is bullshit. It's such a complicated problem you can't just go "German police don't kill many people, ergo US police are out of control fascists."
They might be. I hate the prevalence of SWAT teams. I hate that the police get armored vehicles from the military. But there will still be more police killings in the US than in Germany, simply because of our size. And even if the militarization of the police is ended and SWAT teams are all disbanded, you may STILL see more killings, even on a per capita basis, because our situation is different. We have a different culture. We border a 3rd world country. We have other poor nations with easy smuggling range just across the Gulf of Mexico.
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On April 30 2015 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:34 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2015 07:30 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:14 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:08 Jormundr wrote: So far you have posited: -Always gunfights/car chases -always murdering innocents -Some unsubstantiated stuff about how gangs r tuffer in the US, dem boyz in blue gotta b strong Hard to take you seriously.
I never said always. I find it very hard to believe though, that a significant number of police killings are as controversial as the few that have made the news lately. I'm sure some are not legitimate, but to claim that the number of killings alone, regardless of their legitimacy, is evidence that something is wrong is ridiculous. Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I think you're jumping to conclusions; that I think cops are all saints. I don't. They need better oversight. They should have mandatory cameras. The War on Drugs needs to end. They need to get rid of fines. But they're not all murdering, racist thugs either. Independent investigations too right? Which we all know is what we don't have in Baltimore? At least tell me that fact got through? Yeah, independent investigations too. On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote: I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers
your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening. All I am saying is that it is possible that the police need to kill more here than the police in Germany. I am saying a comparison based solely on the total number is ridiculous. Germany had ~3000 traffic fatalities in 2013. The US had ~36000. Following your kind of logic, drivers in the US are horrible. Seriously? You're asking that question? Have you ever driven in Europe? Americans can't drive for shit. omg so racists  What I would give for American's to actually think we were a race  I know right? Whenever I hear the words "screen door" or "submarine" I think of my Polish heritage and want to cry... and it's 2015 and stores still sell Polish remover T.T
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On April 30 2015 07:52 KwarK wrote: I disagree. The opinion of a lot of Americans, both those I've interacted with since being in the US and those in this topic, is that police violence is not a failure of policing. That sometimes it is appropriate, or necessary, or even deserved. That's the cultural divide between Europe and America, although many Europeans fall on the side I've arbitrarily called "American" and many Americans agree with the "European" side.
The police do not administer justice. They are not empowered to do so, and they should not be. That is what separates the police from an occupying force. They are empowered to protect society by allowing the justice system, of which they are not a part, to do its job. There is a crucial difference there. You need police so that people who break the law can have their day in court and be judged by their peers/an appointed judge but the police themselves do not administer justice.
If a police is forced to kill a suspect in self defence that is a failure of policing. The suspect never made it to court, they were never judged, they were killed. Sometimes it is unavoidable and in those cases so be it but it is still a failure of policing, in an ideal world the police would have been trained, equipped and prepared to resolve the situation without a loss of life. Too often I see "well that's what happens" or "well he deserved it" or "he was a criminal" as if they changes anything. Even if the person had committed a crime that is punished by death they still need their day in court.
When the police get away with taking justice into their own hands, and in my city they have gotten away with it far too much for far too long (Albuquerque, DoJ recently tore into them for their routine killing/beating of unarmed civilians), the contract between police and society has been broken.
Glad someone said it.
On April 30 2015 07:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:34 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2015 07:30 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:14 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:08 Jormundr wrote: So far you have posited: -Always gunfights/car chases -always murdering innocents -Some unsubstantiated stuff about how gangs r tuffer in the US, dem boyz in blue gotta b strong Hard to take you seriously.
I never said always. I find it very hard to believe though, that a significant number of police killings are as controversial as the few that have made the news lately. I'm sure some are not legitimate, but to claim that the number of killings alone, regardless of their legitimacy, is evidence that something is wrong is ridiculous. Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I think you're jumping to conclusions; that I think cops are all saints. I don't. They need better oversight. They should have mandatory cameras. The War on Drugs needs to end. They need to get rid of fines. But they're not all murdering, racist thugs either. Independent investigations too right? Which we all know is what we don't have in Baltimore? At least tell me that fact got through? Yeah, independent investigations too. On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote: I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers
your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening. All I am saying is that it is possible that the police need to kill more here than the police in Germany. I am saying a comparison based solely on the total number is ridiculous. Germany had ~3000 traffic fatalities in 2013. The US had ~36000. Following your kind of logic, drivers in the US are horrible. Seriously? You're asking that question? Have you ever driven in Europe? Americans can't drive for shit. omg so racists  What I would give for American's to actually think we were a race  I know right? Whenever I hear the words "screen door" or "submarine" I think of my Polish heritage and want to cry... and it's 2015 and stores still sell Polish remover T.T
Keepin it classy as always Jonny.
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North Dakota state Rep. Randy Boehning (R) said he was outed as being gay after he voted against a gay rights bill, the Forum newspaper in Fargo, N.D. reported on Monday.
Boehning, 52, told the site that a personal text exchange using the gay dating app "Grindr" was made public as retribution for his vote. Boehning also alleged that an employee at the Capitol told him another lawmaker had promised to out him if he voted against the bill, according to the Forum.
The personal exchange was made public when Dustin Smith, a man who'd spoken with Boehning on Grindr, reportedly recognized a photo of him in an article published in The Forum newspaper. The April 3 cover story displayed photos of all of the lawmakers who had voted against the bill outlawing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
Smith, 21, contacted the paper more than two weeks ago and reportedly revealed that Boehning went under the alias "Top Man!" on the dating site. According to Smith, he has no connections to the Capitol and was not coerced into exposing Boehning but rather decided to step forward because he thought it was hypocritical for Boehning to vote against a gay rights bill, the Forum reported.
Source
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On April 30 2015 07:53 puerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:35 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote:I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening.Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I can not and will not believe that somebody can be this vocal about a topic he has so little clue about. Is that correct? IIRC police have been using firearms less, etc. However, I'm hardly an expert so the question is honest. Good data seems hard to get, as apparently american police departments still have not gotten their act together on reporting incidents and accounting for every shot they fired. The FBI understates the true incidence but their numbers show a slight upward trend surpassing levels of 1994 when there were much higher crime levels (as you previously documented) http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homicide_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls vs http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ph98.pdf Thanks, it looks like justifiable homicides are loosely correlated with the crime rate. It's hard to tell about the last few years with the data cutoffs though.
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On April 30 2015 08:04 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:34 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2015 07:30 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:14 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:08 Jormundr wrote: So far you have posited: -Always gunfights/car chases -always murdering innocents -Some unsubstantiated stuff about how gangs r tuffer in the US, dem boyz in blue gotta b strong Hard to take you seriously.
I never said always. I find it very hard to believe though, that a significant number of police killings are as controversial as the few that have made the news lately. I'm sure some are not legitimate, but to claim that the number of killings alone, regardless of their legitimacy, is evidence that something is wrong is ridiculous. Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I think you're jumping to conclusions; that I think cops are all saints. I don't. They need better oversight. They should have mandatory cameras. The War on Drugs needs to end. They need to get rid of fines. But they're not all murdering, racist thugs either. Independent investigations too right? Which we all know is what we don't have in Baltimore? At least tell me that fact got through? Yeah, independent investigations too. On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote: I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers
your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening. All I am saying is that it is possible that the police need to kill more here than the police in Germany. I am saying a comparison based solely on the total number is ridiculous. Germany had ~3000 traffic fatalities in 2013. The US had ~36000. Following your kind of logic, drivers in the US are horrible. Seriously? You're asking that question? Have you ever driven in Europe? Americans can't drive for shit. omg so racists  What I would give for American's to actually think we were a race  I know right? Whenever I hear the words "screen door" or "submarine" I think of my Polish heritage and want to cry... and it's 2015 and stores still sell Polish remover T.T Keepin it classy as always Jonny. np, I thought the thread could use a little (bad) humor
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On April 30 2015 08:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 08:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:34 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2015 07:30 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:14 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:08 Jormundr wrote: So far you have posited: -Always gunfights/car chases -always murdering innocents -Some unsubstantiated stuff about how gangs r tuffer in the US, dem boyz in blue gotta b strong Hard to take you seriously.
I never said always. I find it very hard to believe though, that a significant number of police killings are as controversial as the few that have made the news lately. I'm sure some are not legitimate, but to claim that the number of killings alone, regardless of their legitimacy, is evidence that something is wrong is ridiculous. Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I think you're jumping to conclusions; that I think cops are all saints. I don't. They need better oversight. They should have mandatory cameras. The War on Drugs needs to end. They need to get rid of fines. But they're not all murdering, racist thugs either. Independent investigations too right? Which we all know is what we don't have in Baltimore? At least tell me that fact got through? Yeah, independent investigations too. On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote: I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers
your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening. All I am saying is that it is possible that the police need to kill more here than the police in Germany. I am saying a comparison based solely on the total number is ridiculous. Germany had ~3000 traffic fatalities in 2013. The US had ~36000. Following your kind of logic, drivers in the US are horrible. Seriously? You're asking that question? Have you ever driven in Europe? Americans can't drive for shit. omg so racists  What I would give for American's to actually think we were a race  I know right? Whenever I hear the words "screen door" or "submarine" I think of my Polish heritage and want to cry... and it's 2015 and stores still sell Polish remover T.T Keepin it classy as always Jonny. np, I thought the thread could use a little (bad) humor 
Can we get some rape, cancer, and transgender jokes in poor taste too? It's been way too heavy lately, plus I wouldn't want them to feel left out that we aren't laughing at their situation too 
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On April 30 2015 08:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 08:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 08:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:34 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2015 07:30 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:14 Millitron wrote: [quote] I never said always. I find it very hard to believe though, that a significant number of police killings are as controversial as the few that have made the news lately. I'm sure some are not legitimate, but to claim that the number of killings alone, regardless of their legitimacy, is evidence that something is wrong is ridiculous.
Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America?
I think you're jumping to conclusions; that I think cops are all saints. I don't. They need better oversight. They should have mandatory cameras. The War on Drugs needs to end. They need to get rid of fines. But they're not all murdering, racist thugs either. Independent investigations too right? Which we all know is what we don't have in Baltimore? At least tell me that fact got through? Yeah, independent investigations too. On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote: I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers
your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening. All I am saying is that it is possible that the police need to kill more here than the police in Germany. I am saying a comparison based solely on the total number is ridiculous. Germany had ~3000 traffic fatalities in 2013. The US had ~36000. Following your kind of logic, drivers in the US are horrible. Seriously? You're asking that question? Have you ever driven in Europe? Americans can't drive for shit. omg so racists  What I would give for American's to actually think we were a race  I know right? Whenever I hear the words "screen door" or "submarine" I think of my Polish heritage and want to cry... and it's 2015 and stores still sell Polish remover T.T Keepin it classy as always Jonny. np, I thought the thread could use a little (bad) humor  Can we get some rape, cancer, and transgender jokes in poor taste too? It's been way too heavy lately, plus I wouldn't want them to feel left out that we aren't laughing at their situation too  Heads up, possibly insensitive joke coming through: + Show Spoiler +Baltimore, more like Bawl-timore
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On April 30 2015 07:53 Millitron wrote: Uh huh. That has got nothing to do with what I said. Which is that the comparison between the US and Germany, based solely on the number killed, is bullshit. It's such a complicated problem you can't just go "German police don't kill many people, ergo US police are out of control fascists."
They might be. I hate the prevalence of SWAT teams. I hate that the police get armored vehicles from the military. But there will still be more police killings in the US than in Germany, simply because of our size. And even if the militarization of the police is ended and SWAT teams are all disbanded, you may STILL see more killings, even on a per capita basis, because our situation is different. We have a different culture. We border a 3rd world country. We have other poor nations with easy smuggling range just across the Gulf of Mexico. Number of deaths is not the be all end all, but they are an indicator, you can not simply ignore. You on the other hand have this weird city on a hill surrounded by savages out to get you fantasy, that somehow justifies not even holding your police force accountable for how many shots they fired, when, where, how and why.
- No, the United States are not struggling against insurmountable uncomparable geographic odds. - Germany doesn't need a 5000km land route to south american cocain production when primarily consumed illegal nonsubscribable drugs are cannabis, heroin and mdma. - You have no fucking clue about Eurasian drug-geography. - You have no fucking clue about the size of the area you are even talking about. If "just across the Gulf of Mexico" is close by, Germany is in the most dangerous region of the world surrounded by war in ukraine, dictatorship in belorus, civil war in north africa, the middle east, and not to forget chechnya and even your favorite boogyman iran is closer to my german hometown than Baltimore is to your ultimate destroyer of american livelyhoods Columbia.
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On April 30 2015 07:46 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:35 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote:I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening.Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I can not and will not believe that somebody can be this vocal about a topic he has so little clue about. Is that correct? IIRC police have been using firearms less, etc. However, I'm hardly an expert so the question is honest. http://www.globalresearch.ca/increasing-police-brutality-americans-killed-by-cops-now-outnumber-americans-killed-in-iraq-war/5361554 Theres a reason why they call chicago chiraq + Show Spoiler +
Not going to lie I downloaded the wire and am watching it through again. Wheres wallace?
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On April 30 2015 07:42 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:34 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2015 07:30 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:14 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:08 Jormundr wrote: So far you have posited: -Always gunfights/car chases -always murdering innocents -Some unsubstantiated stuff about how gangs r tuffer in the US, dem boyz in blue gotta b strong Hard to take you seriously.
I never said always. I find it very hard to believe though, that a significant number of police killings are as controversial as the few that have made the news lately. I'm sure some are not legitimate, but to claim that the number of killings alone, regardless of their legitimacy, is evidence that something is wrong is ridiculous. Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I think you're jumping to conclusions; that I think cops are all saints. I don't. They need better oversight. They should have mandatory cameras. The War on Drugs needs to end. They need to get rid of fines. But they're not all murdering, racist thugs either. Independent investigations too right? Which we all know is what we don't have in Baltimore? At least tell me that fact got through? Yeah, independent investigations too. On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote: I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers
your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening. All I am saying is that it is possible that the police need to kill more here than the police in Germany. I am saying a comparison based solely on the total number is ridiculous. Germany had ~3000 traffic fatalities in 2013. The US had ~36000. Following your kind of logic, drivers in the US are horrible. Seriously? You're asking that question? Have you ever driven in Europe? Americans can't drive for shit. omg so racists  I'm sure if you guys required the same amount of study and lessons as I had to do in Europe and hadn't turned the roads into some kind of insane ego fuelled arms race you'd be fine. This idea that road safety is only achieved by being the biggest most aggressive vehicle on the road is pretty nuts. So many trucks  I don't know if study and lessons is the key to be honest. I did chuckle at the "insane ego fuelled arms race" and aggressive driving hyperbole. It's a good break from these race politics and law enforcement arguments.
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cars suck, use trains instead
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On April 30 2015 08:06 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:53 puerk wrote:On April 30 2015 07:35 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote:I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening.Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I can not and will not believe that somebody can be this vocal about a topic he has so little clue about. Is that correct? IIRC police have been using firearms less, etc. However, I'm hardly an expert so the question is honest. Good data seems hard to get, as apparently american police departments still have not gotten their act together on reporting incidents and accounting for every shot they fired. The FBI understates the true incidence but their numbers show a slight upward trend surpassing levels of 1994 when there were much higher crime levels (as you previously documented) http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homicide_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls vs http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ph98.pdf Thanks, it looks like justifiable homicides are loosely correlated with the crime rate. It's hard to tell about the last few years with the data cutoffs though.
Oh yeah sorry, the sources are terribly discontinous, but here is the missing stretch in between (sadly no numbers per year, but at least a continuation of the graph from 94 to 2008 in the same data) http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-14-justifiable_N.htm
and since we are right in the middle of light hearted fun
On April 30 2015 08:21 Sermokala wrote:Theres a reason why they call chicago chiraq + Show Spoiler + theres a reason why they call iraqi citizens sandniggers
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 30 2015 08:17 puerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:53 Millitron wrote: Uh huh. That has got nothing to do with what I said. Which is that the comparison between the US and Germany, based solely on the number killed, is bullshit. It's such a complicated problem you can't just go "German police don't kill many people, ergo US police are out of control fascists."
They might be. I hate the prevalence of SWAT teams. I hate that the police get armored vehicles from the military. But there will still be more police killings in the US than in Germany, simply because of our size. And even if the militarization of the police is ended and SWAT teams are all disbanded, you may STILL see more killings, even on a per capita basis, because our situation is different. We have a different culture. We border a 3rd world country. We have other poor nations with easy smuggling range just across the Gulf of Mexico. Number of deaths is not the be all end all, but they are an indicator, you can not simply ignore. You on the other hand have this weird city on a hill surrounded by savages out to get you fantasy, that somehow justifies not even holding your police force accountable for how many shots they fired, when, where, how and why. - No, the United States are not struggling against insurmountable uncomparable geographic odds. - Germany doesn't need a 5000km land route to south american cocain production when primarily consumed illegal nonsubscribable drugs are cannabis, heroin and mdma. - You have no fucking clue about Eurasian drug-geography. - You have no fucking clue about the size of the area you are even talking about. If "just across the Gulf of Mexico" is close by, Germany is in the most dangerous region of the world surrounded by war in ukraine, dictatorship in belorus, civil war in north africa, the middle east, and not to forget chechnya and even your favorite boogyman iran is closer to my german hometown than Baltimore is to your ultimate destroyer of american livelyhoods Columbia. Ok lets break this down:
1) I have never defended how pisspoor police record keeping is.
2) You have no fucking clue about American drug-geography
3) You can see Cuba from Key West. It's not as far as you make it seem. I'm not talking about going from Colombia straight to Mississippi.
4) None of those countries you mentioned want into Germany. All the strife in them is internal. But the cartels in Mexico and South America want access to the lucrative markets of the US.
Is it not possible that things are worse in the US for more reasons than just "Our cops are thugs."?
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United States42777 Posts
On April 30 2015 08:21 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 07:42 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2015 07:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On April 30 2015 07:34 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2015 07:30 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 30 2015 07:14 Millitron wrote:On April 30 2015 07:08 Jormundr wrote: So far you have posited: -Always gunfights/car chases -always murdering innocents -Some unsubstantiated stuff about how gangs r tuffer in the US, dem boyz in blue gotta b strong Hard to take you seriously.
I never said always. I find it very hard to believe though, that a significant number of police killings are as controversial as the few that have made the news lately. I'm sure some are not legitimate, but to claim that the number of killings alone, regardless of their legitimacy, is evidence that something is wrong is ridiculous. Does Germany border a 3rd world country? Does Germany have a land-route to the drug fields of South America? I think you're jumping to conclusions; that I think cops are all saints. I don't. They need better oversight. They should have mandatory cameras. The War on Drugs needs to end. They need to get rid of fines. But they're not all murdering, racist thugs either. Independent investigations too right? Which we all know is what we don't have in Baltimore? At least tell me that fact got through? Yeah, independent investigations too. On April 30 2015 07:20 puerk wrote: I will never understand your weird fascination with survival of the fittest and admiration of warlords and similar or accompanying circumstances. Your infividual actors are no different than elsewhere in the world, black gangsters are not genetically more violent than the russian mafia, vietnamese gangs (although they lost their territories here already in the nineties as far as i am aware, so they are less relevant), bulgarian mafia and our own homegrown crime syndicates.. be it rocker gangs, or the bouncers
your crime numbers are improving year after year as jonny makes a great effort about pointing out again and again, yet your police degenerates into ever more violence, over less and less actual crime happening. All I am saying is that it is possible that the police need to kill more here than the police in Germany. I am saying a comparison based solely on the total number is ridiculous. Germany had ~3000 traffic fatalities in 2013. The US had ~36000. Following your kind of logic, drivers in the US are horrible. Seriously? You're asking that question? Have you ever driven in Europe? Americans can't drive for shit. omg so racists  I'm sure if you guys required the same amount of study and lessons as I had to do in Europe and hadn't turned the roads into some kind of insane ego fuelled arms race you'd be fine. This idea that road safety is only achieved by being the biggest most aggressive vehicle on the road is pretty nuts. So many trucks  I don't know if study and lessons is the key to be honest. I did chuckle at the "insane ego fuelled arms race" and aggressive driving hyperbole. It's a good break from these race politics and law enforcement arguments. You have to be in a giant vehicle for safety. After all what happens when you're not in a giant vehicle and someone who cared enough to protect their family hits you. The only logical choice is to buy whatever is one bigger than theirs. 'Murica.
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"you have no clue about geography" "no, you"
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On April 30 2015 08:30 Paljas wrote: "you have no clue about geography" "no, you" That's kinda my point. He's making baseless accusations.
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