EPTOn April 26 2015 06:42 WhiteDog wrote:
You really think physical strength was enough to assure private property ? Animal have complicated institutions too btw, the difference is we are not finished when we come to life.
I love your quotes. they're meaningless tho. I never intended to discuss the possibility of communism with you, but just saying all this is also true for free market.
You just proved you don't know much about the history of communism some pages ago...
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 06:30 Millitron wrote:
Physical strength isn't an institution, and that's all it took at first. Hell, animals understand property.
As for the practical issues of communism, they're inherent human qualities. In fact, if they didn't exist, the whole discussion would be moot. You don't need any government if everyone behaves.
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison
So basically, Communism doesn't work in the real world, and in some ideal world where it could work, it would be pointless.
On April 26 2015 06:13 WhiteDog wrote:
The only practical issue I see is that the world is full of Jonnys lol.
The problem is to make other respect your "this is mine, that is yours". And yes you need plenty of institutions for that, not a question of efficiency. That's a stupid idea, efficiency is defined in respect to the goal that you set, it does not come from god or nature.
Exactly like social ownership. Idea =/= reality.
On April 26 2015 06:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
So what? Just because some ideas develop successfully over time does not mean that all ideas will successfully develop over time. Some will just turn out to be bad ideas. Like Marxism.
Just look at where these discussions always go - straight to the dumpster of theoretical bullshitting. Practical issues? Who gives a fuck about that? Native Americans and stuff! Whoooo!
On April 26 2015 05:20 WhiteDog wrote:
You think our current society was possible in the XVth century ? It's a question of education, even democracy was a completly impossible idea at first.
And you're always arguing against things that are not discussed. I responded a claim that said that socialism is only state ownership. That's false, and the history of socialism proved it.
The discussion is not : does collective societies are possible ? And I don't want to discuss that with a mind wrapped in "economism".
On April 26 2015 05:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Yeah yeah, someday blizz will patch humanity and your awesome theorycrafted strats will be totally viable.
someday ...
On April 26 2015 04:00 WhiteDog wrote:
Maybe, but again that's not the point. It's too hypothetical to be discussed : with us, mankind as it is being raised and taught today, it is not possible indeed.
On April 26 2015 03:58 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
I'm not saying it's less efficient, I'm saying it isn't workable on a large scale.
On April 26 2015 03:47 WhiteDog wrote:
You can argue that collectively owned firms are less efficient in some regards, if you will, I'll not discuss it. But that was not the point.
You can argue that collectively owned firms are less efficient in some regards, if you will, I'll not discuss it. But that was not the point.
I'm not saying it's less efficient, I'm saying it isn't workable on a large scale.
Maybe, but again that's not the point. It's too hypothetical to be discussed : with us, mankind as it is being raised and taught today, it is not possible indeed.
Yeah yeah, someday blizz will patch humanity and your awesome theorycrafted strats will be totally viable.
someday ...
You think our current society was possible in the XVth century ? It's a question of education, even democracy was a completly impossible idea at first.
And you're always arguing against things that are not discussed. I responded a claim that said that socialism is only state ownership. That's false, and the history of socialism proved it.
The discussion is not : does collective societies are possible ? And I don't want to discuss that with a mind wrapped in "economism".
So what? Just because some ideas develop successfully over time does not mean that all ideas will successfully develop over time. Some will just turn out to be bad ideas. Like Marxism.
Just look at where these discussions always go - straight to the dumpster of theoretical bullshitting. Practical issues? Who gives a fuck about that? Native Americans and stuff! Whoooo!
The only practical issue I see is that the world is full of Jonnys lol.
You don't need any institutions to come up with the idea "This is mine, that is yours." Assuring it's maintained is an issue of efficiency, which you've already said you don't care about.
The problem is to make other respect your "this is mine, that is yours". And yes you need plenty of institutions for that, not a question of efficiency. That's a stupid idea, efficiency is defined in respect to the goal that you set, it does not come from god or nature.
He's saying democracy at all was impossible. I'm saying we're not biologically different than medieval people. They were plenty smart enough to come up with the idea.
Exactly like social ownership. Idea =/= reality.
Physical strength isn't an institution, and that's all it took at first. Hell, animals understand property.
As for the practical issues of communism, they're inherent human qualities. In fact, if they didn't exist, the whole discussion would be moot. You don't need any government if everyone behaves.
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison
So basically, Communism doesn't work in the real world, and in some ideal world where it could work, it would be pointless.
You really think physical strength was enough to assure private property ? Animal have complicated institutions too btw, the difference is we are not finished when we come to life.
I love your quotes. they're meaningless tho. I never intended to discuss the possibility of communism with you, but just saying all this is also true for free market.
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 06:33 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
That's the history of communism in a nutshell right there.
On April 26 2015 06:13 WhiteDog wrote:
The only practical issue I see is that the world is full of Jonnys lol.
On April 26 2015 06:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
So what? Just because some ideas develop successfully over time does not mean that all ideas will successfully develop over time. Some will just turn out to be bad ideas. Like Marxism.
Just look at where these discussions always go - straight to the dumpster of theoretical bullshitting. Practical issues? Who gives a fuck about that? Native Americans and stuff! Whoooo!
On April 26 2015 05:20 WhiteDog wrote:
You think our current society was possible in the XVth century ? It's a question of education, even democracy was a completly impossible idea at first.
And you're always arguing against things that are not discussed. I responded a claim that said that socialism is only state ownership. That's false, and the history of socialism proved it.
The discussion is not : does collective societies are possible ? And I don't want to discuss that with a mind wrapped in "economism".
On April 26 2015 05:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Yeah yeah, someday blizz will patch humanity and your awesome theorycrafted strats will be totally viable.
someday ...
On April 26 2015 04:00 WhiteDog wrote:
Maybe, but again that's not the point. It's too hypothetical to be discussed : with us, mankind as it is being raised and taught today, it is not possible indeed.
On April 26 2015 03:58 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
I'm not saying it's less efficient, I'm saying it isn't workable on a large scale.
On April 26 2015 03:47 WhiteDog wrote:
You can argue that collectively owned firms are less efficient in some regards, if you will, I'll not discuss it. But that was not the point.
You can argue that collectively owned firms are less efficient in some regards, if you will, I'll not discuss it. But that was not the point.
I'm not saying it's less efficient, I'm saying it isn't workable on a large scale.
Maybe, but again that's not the point. It's too hypothetical to be discussed : with us, mankind as it is being raised and taught today, it is not possible indeed.
Yeah yeah, someday blizz will patch humanity and your awesome theorycrafted strats will be totally viable.
someday ...
You think our current society was possible in the XVth century ? It's a question of education, even democracy was a completly impossible idea at first.
And you're always arguing against things that are not discussed. I responded a claim that said that socialism is only state ownership. That's false, and the history of socialism proved it.
The discussion is not : does collective societies are possible ? And I don't want to discuss that with a mind wrapped in "economism".
So what? Just because some ideas develop successfully over time does not mean that all ideas will successfully develop over time. Some will just turn out to be bad ideas. Like Marxism.
Just look at where these discussions always go - straight to the dumpster of theoretical bullshitting. Practical issues? Who gives a fuck about that? Native Americans and stuff! Whoooo!
The only practical issue I see is that the world is full of Jonnys lol.
That's the history of communism in a nutshell right there.
You just proved you don't know much about the history of communism some pages ago...
On April 26 2015 06:42 WhiteDog wrote:
You really think physical strength was enough to assure private property ? Animal have complicated institutions too btw, the difference is we are not finished when we come to life.
I love your quotes. they're meaningless tho. I never intended to discuss the possibility of communism with you, but just saying all this is also true for free market.
You just proved you don't know much about the history of communism some pages ago...
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 06:30 Millitron wrote:
Physical strength isn't an institution, and that's all it took at first. Hell, animals understand property.
As for the practical issues of communism, they're inherent human qualities. In fact, if they didn't exist, the whole discussion would be moot. You don't need any government if everyone behaves.
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison
So basically, Communism doesn't work in the real world, and in some ideal world where it could work, it would be pointless.
On April 26 2015 06:13 WhiteDog wrote:
The only practical issue I see is that the world is full of Jonnys lol.
The problem is to make other respect your "this is mine, that is yours". And yes you need plenty of institutions for that, not a question of efficiency. That's a stupid idea, efficiency is defined in respect to the goal that you set, it does not come from god or nature.
Exactly like social ownership. Idea =/= reality.
On April 26 2015 06:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
So what? Just because some ideas develop successfully over time does not mean that all ideas will successfully develop over time. Some will just turn out to be bad ideas. Like Marxism.
Just look at where these discussions always go - straight to the dumpster of theoretical bullshitting. Practical issues? Who gives a fuck about that? Native Americans and stuff! Whoooo!
On April 26 2015 05:20 WhiteDog wrote:
You think our current society was possible in the XVth century ? It's a question of education, even democracy was a completly impossible idea at first.
And you're always arguing against things that are not discussed. I responded a claim that said that socialism is only state ownership. That's false, and the history of socialism proved it.
The discussion is not : does collective societies are possible ? And I don't want to discuss that with a mind wrapped in "economism".
On April 26 2015 05:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Yeah yeah, someday blizz will patch humanity and your awesome theorycrafted strats will be totally viable.
someday ...
On April 26 2015 04:00 WhiteDog wrote:
Maybe, but again that's not the point. It's too hypothetical to be discussed : with us, mankind as it is being raised and taught today, it is not possible indeed.
On April 26 2015 03:58 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
I'm not saying it's less efficient, I'm saying it isn't workable on a large scale.
On April 26 2015 03:47 WhiteDog wrote:
You can argue that collectively owned firms are less efficient in some regards, if you will, I'll not discuss it. But that was not the point.
You can argue that collectively owned firms are less efficient in some regards, if you will, I'll not discuss it. But that was not the point.
I'm not saying it's less efficient, I'm saying it isn't workable on a large scale.
Maybe, but again that's not the point. It's too hypothetical to be discussed : with us, mankind as it is being raised and taught today, it is not possible indeed.
Yeah yeah, someday blizz will patch humanity and your awesome theorycrafted strats will be totally viable.
someday ...
You think our current society was possible in the XVth century ? It's a question of education, even democracy was a completly impossible idea at first.
And you're always arguing against things that are not discussed. I responded a claim that said that socialism is only state ownership. That's false, and the history of socialism proved it.
The discussion is not : does collective societies are possible ? And I don't want to discuss that with a mind wrapped in "economism".
So what? Just because some ideas develop successfully over time does not mean that all ideas will successfully develop over time. Some will just turn out to be bad ideas. Like Marxism.
Just look at where these discussions always go - straight to the dumpster of theoretical bullshitting. Practical issues? Who gives a fuck about that? Native Americans and stuff! Whoooo!
The only practical issue I see is that the world is full of Jonnys lol.
You don't need any institutions to come up with the idea "This is mine, that is yours." Assuring it's maintained is an issue of efficiency, which you've already said you don't care about.
The problem is to make other respect your "this is mine, that is yours". And yes you need plenty of institutions for that, not a question of efficiency. That's a stupid idea, efficiency is defined in respect to the goal that you set, it does not come from god or nature.
He's saying democracy at all was impossible. I'm saying we're not biologically different than medieval people. They were plenty smart enough to come up with the idea.
Exactly like social ownership. Idea =/= reality.
Physical strength isn't an institution, and that's all it took at first. Hell, animals understand property.
As for the practical issues of communism, they're inherent human qualities. In fact, if they didn't exist, the whole discussion would be moot. You don't need any government if everyone behaves.
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison
So basically, Communism doesn't work in the real world, and in some ideal world where it could work, it would be pointless.
You really think physical strength was enough to assure private property ? Animal have complicated institutions too btw, the difference is we are not finished when we come to life.
I love your quotes. they're meaningless tho. I never intended to discuss the possibility of communism with you, but just saying all this is also true for free market.
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 06:33 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
That's the history of communism in a nutshell right there.
On April 26 2015 06:13 WhiteDog wrote:
The only practical issue I see is that the world is full of Jonnys lol.
On April 26 2015 06:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
So what? Just because some ideas develop successfully over time does not mean that all ideas will successfully develop over time. Some will just turn out to be bad ideas. Like Marxism.
Just look at where these discussions always go - straight to the dumpster of theoretical bullshitting. Practical issues? Who gives a fuck about that? Native Americans and stuff! Whoooo!
On April 26 2015 05:20 WhiteDog wrote:
You think our current society was possible in the XVth century ? It's a question of education, even democracy was a completly impossible idea at first.
And you're always arguing against things that are not discussed. I responded a claim that said that socialism is only state ownership. That's false, and the history of socialism proved it.
The discussion is not : does collective societies are possible ? And I don't want to discuss that with a mind wrapped in "economism".
On April 26 2015 05:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Yeah yeah, someday blizz will patch humanity and your awesome theorycrafted strats will be totally viable.
someday ...
On April 26 2015 04:00 WhiteDog wrote:
Maybe, but again that's not the point. It's too hypothetical to be discussed : with us, mankind as it is being raised and taught today, it is not possible indeed.
On April 26 2015 03:58 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
I'm not saying it's less efficient, I'm saying it isn't workable on a large scale.
On April 26 2015 03:47 WhiteDog wrote:
You can argue that collectively owned firms are less efficient in some regards, if you will, I'll not discuss it. But that was not the point.
You can argue that collectively owned firms are less efficient in some regards, if you will, I'll not discuss it. But that was not the point.
I'm not saying it's less efficient, I'm saying it isn't workable on a large scale.
Maybe, but again that's not the point. It's too hypothetical to be discussed : with us, mankind as it is being raised and taught today, it is not possible indeed.
Yeah yeah, someday blizz will patch humanity and your awesome theorycrafted strats will be totally viable.
someday ...
You think our current society was possible in the XVth century ? It's a question of education, even democracy was a completly impossible idea at first.
And you're always arguing against things that are not discussed. I responded a claim that said that socialism is only state ownership. That's false, and the history of socialism proved it.
The discussion is not : does collective societies are possible ? And I don't want to discuss that with a mind wrapped in "economism".
So what? Just because some ideas develop successfully over time does not mean that all ideas will successfully develop over time. Some will just turn out to be bad ideas. Like Marxism.
Just look at where these discussions always go - straight to the dumpster of theoretical bullshitting. Practical issues? Who gives a fuck about that? Native Americans and stuff! Whoooo!
The only practical issue I see is that the world is full of Jonnys lol.
That's the history of communism in a nutshell right there.
You just proved you don't know much about the history of communism some pages ago...
Physical strength wasn't enough to secure private property. But nothing is. Nothing is 100% successful at it. Physical strength was just the first attempt.
I don't think I ever brought up the free market. You were the one who cited that whole "property is theft" bullshit though. That's some grade A double-think.
Animal institutions do not get more complex than "This is mine, mess with it and I kill you.". They don't have courts of law or anything like that.
