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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1861

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
April 19 2015 21:38 GMT
#37201
On April 20 2015 06:30 Paljas wrote:
A President has to lead, not to read.
#Arnold2016

Knowing things is overrated :3
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 19 2015 21:42 GMT
#37202
it would be an interesting exercise to name the two people who are most qualified to be president based on their political ideology, knowledge and praxis.

We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18849 Posts
April 19 2015 21:43 GMT
#37203
The answer to that question is obviously me
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28740 Posts
April 19 2015 21:49 GMT
#37204
On April 20 2015 04:03 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2015 02:06 Liquid`Drone wrote:
well you can always remove all taxes and replace it with a sales tax.. I dunno how happy people would be about having 30% more money if everything immediately becomes 30% more expensive though. And if not everything becomes 30% more expensive, like if luxury items have a higher sales tax, then suddenly you'd have companies trying to classify their luxury items as not luxury items. And if you don't have that distinction, then you just made taxes much less progressive, which certainly doesn't seem like an ideal (to me. )

Frankly I'm more leaning the other way, remove sales taxes completely, at least for groceries and other necessities, because they are the taxes least suited for redistribution. And the purpose of taxation is essentially redistribution. Everyone has to buy food, and working minimum wage leaves you paying the same tax for bread as a billionaire does. Note, I don't think that bread should be less expensive if you have less, but sales tax goes against the idea of progressive taxation. From my perspective, the problem with the American tax system is that for the top levels, it's not progressive at all, billionaires pay a smaller % of their income than lower middle class, and that makes no sense to me. My impression (from Norway) is that sales tax if anything function as a way of concealing the real taxation level from the public, because even though we don't have very high income taxes (for a large majority of people income taxes are between 27% and 35%, I've been paying less than 20% for the past 5 years), real taxation levels have been estimated to be more in the 60-70% ballpark, with everything added together.

A lot of states have sales tax exemptions on necessities like food and clothes.

As for tax progressiveness, the US has one of the more progressive tax systems in the OECD (arguably the most progressive). The idea that billionaires are taxed less is largely a myth. Every tax bracket will have variation in the effective tax rate, so finding examples of x or y being true is possible in any country. But it is the average that is more instructive. And on average the rich pay a much higher tax rate than the middle class, particularly if you account for benefits as income, which the IRS generally does not.


I have to admit I'm pretty much parroting Warren Buffett here. (http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/04/news/economy/buffett-secretary-taxes/) I'll happily concede that I did not know that the differences between those tiers were that big - and that your taxes actually are this progressive seems like one of those pieces of knowledge that go against the common European understanding. It's important to debunk these myths, so thank you for that. Even the Buffett interview I linked seems to include a tax hike on capital gains which I had no idea about.

Still though, I did say billionaires. To be in the top 1% of income, according to this, you need somewhere between $250k and $1.6mill, probably significantly closer to $250k, and I think it's very fair to assume that a significantly higher portion of the income of a billionaire will be derived from capital gains than from regular income. Not saying it makes my statement correct, but I do still hold the opinion that your richest should pay an even higher share.

Although personally, and I have to admit that this isn't a position I've spent a whoole lot of time thinking about so it might be flawed in ways I don't understand, I'd prefer to see something like a ceiling to how much more a CEO can take home compared to entry level workers (to ensure that a thriving company benefits all the employees and that we don't get the absurdly unjust 600:1 ratios, that people get paid salary rather than handed government benefits which is empowering and gives people the feeling of everyone pulling in the same direction rather than divisive because it turns some people into 'freeloaders' in the views of others and often themselves) over seeing increased tax ratios followed by other forms of redistribution.
Moderator
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 19 2015 21:53 GMT
#37205


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 19 2015 21:54 GMT
#37206
On April 20 2015 06:43 farvacola wrote:
The answer to that question is obviously me

remember to hire me for your campaign. i can troll and stuff
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-19 22:06:52
April 19 2015 21:59 GMT
#37207
capital income in the US dominate the 0.1% of the highest income, the other 99.9% are mostly regular income.

how ever, billionaires shouldnt exist. it is absurd that anyone could have so much money while others have trouble feeding their kids.


regarding scientists in politics: germanys beloved chancellor overlord has a phd in physics. i mean, she sucks as a politican, but hey, the Tyson/Nye 2020 dream is alive
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 19 2015 22:03 GMT
#37208
On April 20 2015 06:59 Paljas wrote:
capital income in the US dominate the 0.1% of the highest income, the other 99.9% are mostly regular income.

how ever, billionaires shouldnt exist. it is absurd that anyone could have so much money while others have trouble feeding their kids.
property is a hell of a drug.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
April 19 2015 22:14 GMT
#37209
On April 20 2015 06:59 Paljas wrote:
capital income in the US dominate the 0.1% of the highest income, the other 99.9% are mostly regular income.

how ever, billionaires shouldnt exist. it is absurd that anyone could have so much money while others have trouble feeding their kids.


regarding scientists in politics: germanys beloved chancellor overlord has a phd in physics. i mean, she sucks as a politican, but hey, the Tyson/Nye 2020 dream is alive

and the quantum chemistry work she did for that was actually pretty decent - not groundbreaking but thorough
if she sucks as a politician is hard to determine, she clings to power better then her mentor, especially more subtle
and being like teflon is basically the ultimate power as politician
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 19 2015 22:23 GMT
#37210
WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - The FBI and U.S. Justice Department have acknowledged that almost all of the experts in a forensic unit dedicated to microscopic hair comparison gave flawed testimony against defendants before 2000, the Washington Post said.

The National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and the Innocence Project found that 26 of the 28 examiners in the FBI's microscopic hair comparison unit overstated evidence in more than 95 percent of 268 trials that the groups have examined so far, the Post said.

Defendants and prosecutors in 46 states, along with the District of Columbia, are being advised of the findings, which could result in appealing of convictions, the newspaper said. The cases with overstated evidence included 32 that resulted in death sentences, and 14 of those defendants have been executed or died in prison.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22096 Posts
April 19 2015 22:28 GMT
#37211
On April 20 2015 07:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - The FBI and U.S. Justice Department have acknowledged that almost all of the experts in a forensic unit dedicated to microscopic hair comparison gave flawed testimony against defendants before 2000, the Washington Post said.

The National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and the Innocence Project found that 26 of the 28 examiners in the FBI's microscopic hair comparison unit overstated evidence in more than 95 percent of 268 trials that the groups have examined so far, the Post said.

Defendants and prosecutors in 46 states, along with the District of Columbia, are being advised of the findings, which could result in appealing of convictions, the newspaper said. The cases with overstated evidence included 32 that resulted in death sentences, and 14 of those defendants have been executed or died in prison.


Source

Wtf Oo
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 19 2015 22:29 GMT
#37212
On April 20 2015 05:43 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2015 05:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On April 20 2015 04:54 Leporello wrote:
On April 20 2015 04:47 cLutZ wrote:
On April 20 2015 04:32 Leporello wrote:
Regardless of "classifying" various items, a sales tax in lieu of an income tax is a blatant, huge, disgusting way to shift the tax-burdens to the poor -- to such a degree that it isn't even feasible. There's no way to get around it, and I have no idea why we should even try.
If anything we should eliminate all sales taxes altogether.

Progressive income tax is kind of the lesser of all evils. Although to call our current system progressive is a bit of a stretch. It technically is bracketed so the rich pay a higher percentage, but, it's only a couple of points. It needs to be more progressive, i.e., we need to start taxing rich people again, like we used to.

edit: It's such a wonder, with the "leftist socialist" Obama, we have the same tax brackets that George W. gave us...


Most progressive tax scheme in the OECD is not progressive enough?


Except, it's nowhere near the most progressive tax scheme in the OECD? Just picking one country at random, you'll likely find bigger increases between income tax brackets than you will in the U.S.'s... So... Where do you get the crazy idea that we have the most progressive income tax system in the OECD (basically, the world)?

Most countries in the OECD tax more overall, but also use a lot more regressive taxes, like high rate VATs.

[image loading]

Article on this here.

Overall our tax system is highly progressive, but we tax less overall and fund a smaller welfare state.

Longer explaination: + Show Spoiler +
I am the person who wrote the chapter in the OECD report that is the basis of these figures. It is part of a report on the distribution of income to households, so it doesn’t include taxes that are not directly paid by households, since these are not included in income surveys....[T]he table also calculates the distribution of taxes for the household as whole after adjusting for the number of people in the household, so it will differ from data calculated on income tax returns which are not adjusted for household size.

As others have pointed out this measure includes all direct taxes on individuals so it includes income taxes and employee social security contributions, but not employer payroll taxes. It also doesn’t include sales taxes, but these are much heavier in most other OECD countries, and not as progressive as direct taxes, so if you added indirect taxes in through some sort of modelling it is almost certain that the USA would still have the most progressive overall tax system.

However, as the OECD report points out, progressivity is not the same as redistribution. Progressivity measures how the distribution of the tax burden is shared, while redistribution measures how much the tax system reduces inequality. Redistribution is influenced both by the progressivity of taxes and the level of taxes collected.

In fact, the US system of direct taxes actually reduces inequality more than any other country as well. But overall, the USA reduces inequality a lot less than most other countries, because the other thing that you need to take into account is what taxes get spent on.

Now the US system of social security and cash benefits reduces inequality by less than any other OECD country except Korea. The US social security system is marginally less progressive then the OECD average, but the level of spending is very low – only Mexico and Korea spend less in the OECD.

So while the US tax system is progressive and reduces inequality, the US welfare state is much less effective at reducing inequality. And because the US has a very unequal distribution of income from capital and a much wider wage distribution than many other OECD countries, it ends up as a relatively unequal country after taxes and benefits.

If you look at Nordic countries, they all have much less progressive tax systems than the USA, but they collect a lot more in taxes (including in VAT). They then spend this much higher tax revenue on social security and services, and it is this side of the equation that is most important in reducing inequality.

So the implication is not that the USA either needs to increase or reduce the progressivity of the tax system. If you want to reduce inequality, you need to increase the level of taxes collected and spend it more effectively.


That is interesting, and I will take the time to read the article.

But what I'm noticing right off is you're defining this all based on government revenue, not simply what individuals are paying in taxes.

Which is fine. But that reflects on a lot more than just taxes. The income distribution of these countries becomes more of a factor. Countries with a smaller percentage of "rich" people will see less revenue from them, regardless of how progressive their income tax rates are. So... it's in-depth, but not really saying anything definitive about what the personal tax rates are.

From the article:

Show nested quote +
Interestingly, countries with top personal income tax rates that are higher than in the U.S., such as Germany, France, or Sweden, have ratios that are closer to 1 to 1. Meaning, the share of the tax burden paid by the richest decile in those countries is roughly equal to their share of the nation's income. By contrast, we prefer to have the wealthiest households in this country pay a share of the tax burden that is one-third greater than their share of the nation's income.


Which is interesting, thanks, and I will read the whole article. But the fact is, other countries have higher income taxes than we do. That the government revenue doesn't show a likewise higher percentage of its revenue coming from those higher income taxes, well... there are a lot of factors there.


I will also say that since we see "more from less" when it comes to our higher-income tax-brackets, well... all the more reason to raise it a couple points, maybe?!


I'd just point out, that the ratio on the right is basically the measure of "progressiveness" of our code. We could raise income taxes on the rich more, however, historically that has proven only mildly effective on actually generating increased revenues from those people. If you want to fund a larger welfare state, you have to understand that it needs to be funded by a broad tax that hits people at every part of the income scale, like the payroll tax, a national sales tax, or a VAT. Those are the revenue making machines that fund the European welfare states.

TLDR: To actually get more government revenues America has to have a less progressive tax code.
Freeeeeeedom
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
April 19 2015 22:31 GMT
#37213
death sentence continues to be a disgrace
shit like that makes me want to vomit.
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23647 Posts
April 19 2015 22:35 GMT
#37214
On April 20 2015 07:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - The FBI and U.S. Justice Department have acknowledged that almost all of the experts in a forensic unit dedicated to microscopic hair comparison gave flawed testimony against defendants before 2000, the Washington Post said.

The National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and the Innocence Project found that 26 of the 28 examiners in the FBI's microscopic hair comparison unit overstated evidence in more than 95 percent of 268 trials that the groups have examined so far, the Post said.

Defendants and prosecutors in 46 states, along with the District of Columbia, are being advised of the findings, which could result in appealing of convictions, the newspaper said. The cases with overstated evidence included 32 that resulted in death sentences, and 14 of those defendants have been executed or died in prison.


Source



I am probably one of the least surprised people by this fact. This is just the tip of the 'evidence' iceburg. Any thorough look would reveal all sorts of stuff like this and worse.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
April 19 2015 22:36 GMT
#37215
On April 20 2015 04:24 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2015 02:13 Millitron wrote:
On April 20 2015 02:04 zlefin wrote:
On April 20 2015 01:46 Millitron wrote:
On April 20 2015 01:31 Gorsameth wrote:
Sigh thinking rich people will invest more if there were less taxes is an utter fallacy.

I would also bet that it would result in a major tax income loss because the difference in how much is spend on luxury items just isn't big enough. It is yet another measure that will not grow the economy, will hurt the middle class and will benefit the rich.

How will it benefit the rich? They'll pay higher taxes on all the stuff they buy. If you heavily tax stuff rich people want, there is no net loss of tax income. I'm talking 15-20% taxes on new mansions, high-end sports cars, private jets, things like that. And like I said, there's no tax loopholes to cheat with in a sales tax, because it happens at check-out, and has no exemptions. Keeping money in off-shore accounts will do no good, because the sale happens in the US.

You CAN curb investment with taxes. If you tax too much, there simply is no money left to invest. You want to tax money that is obviously not going to investment, i.e. money that's spent on stuff.

There's quite a bit of research on the effect of various tax types.
I'm not sure of the effects if the sales tax on luxuries is significantly higher than the regular sales tax.

Sales taxes in general tend to be somewhat regressive (affecting the poor more than the rich).


as to loopholes, sales tax is just as vulnerable to having loopholes as income tax, or at least that's my impression, do you have citations to the contrary? obviously a no exceptions sales tax might not, but the same would apply to a no exceptions income tax.

A sales tax doesn't have to be a flat tax though. You can charge much higher taxes on things rich people buy, so as to prevent it from being regressive. Poor people aren't buying private jets, mansions, or Kobe beef. So you heavily tax the high end stuff, and it is effectively the same as variable income tax. Instead of "make more money, pay higher taxes" it's "buy more expensive stuff, pay higher taxes".

There are no loopholes if the taxes are done like they are in Europe. Sales taxes are figured in to the total price of the item. Unlike in the US, where an 8% sales tax on an item with a sticker price of $100 means you actually pay $108, in Europe the sticker price includes the sales tax and in this case would be $108.

The only loophole I can see is importing stuff. Unless you pay tariffs, any purchase outside the country wouldn't be taxed I guess. Other than that though, I can't see any loopholes because there's no paperwork to cheat on.


Poor people buy regular beef, though. So if I want cheep Kobe beef I will find a lawyer to somehow classify my Kobe beef as regular beef, and thereby avoid paying "luxury" sales tax. And the same goes for sports cars, private jets and pretty much everything else you can come up with: somebody is buying something similar for a legitimate business or livelihood purpose.

No, see there's no luxury classification. I don't tax stuff more heavily because some committee found the item to be a luxury, I tax it more heavily because it's more expensive. You want Kobe beef with low tax? You gotta find some that doesn't cost much before the tax. An example might be this. A cheap $10 steak might have say, 5% tax. But a nice $80 Kobe might have 15% tax. And this isn't because it's a Kobe, it's because it was priced at $80. The taxes are basically set by the market. A business indirectly decides how much tax it's customers will pay for its products, because they decide the price of the product to begin with.
Who called in the fleet?
phil.ipp
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria1067 Posts
April 19 2015 22:42 GMT
#37216
On April 20 2015 07:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - The FBI and U.S. Justice Department have acknowledged that almost all of the experts in a forensic unit dedicated to microscopic hair comparison gave flawed testimony against defendants before 2000, the Washington Post said.

The National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and the Innocence Project found that 26 of the 28 examiners in the FBI's microscopic hair comparison unit overstated evidence in more than 95 percent of 268 trials that the groups have examined so far, the Post said.

Defendants and prosecutors in 46 states, along with the District of Columbia, are being advised of the findings, which could result in appealing of convictions, the newspaper said. The cases with overstated evidence included 32 that resulted in death sentences, and 14 of those defendants have been executed or died in prison.


Source


and thats why you never ever should implement the death penalty.
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
April 19 2015 22:44 GMT
#37217
so an ultra cheap commuter car for 5-10k is taxed at a much higher rate as your bottle of 2000$ champagne
and a middle class home at 100-200k is taxed the same as a full spec s-class mercedes
in your mind this makes the taxcode more progressive....
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 19 2015 22:44 GMT
#37218
Sen. Lindsey Graham said Sunday there’s a better than 90 percent chance he’ll run for president, saying he’ll decide in May.

“If I can raise the money, I’ll do it,” the South Carolina Republican said on “Fox News Sunday.”

Graham said he’ll win South Carolina if he’s on the ballot, pointing out he won his reelection primary there last year by more than 40 points, despite challenges from multiple candidates. A recent poll of the GOP presidential primary field in South Caroilna, however, showed him trailing Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz.

“If I didn’t think I could win South Carolina, I wouldn’t be talking to you,” Graham said.

The South Carolina senator offered the strong signal that he’ll run for president after being told that former Hewlett Packard CEO Carly Fiorina recently indicated she was 90 percent certain to enter the race. Asked by Fox host Chris Wallace to offer a percentage likelihood that he’d run, Graham said, “91.”

The third-term senator has staked his prospective bid for the GOP presidential nomination on his foreign policy chops, running as a hawk on Iran and using the Fox News interview to land broadsides on some of his potential Republican opponents and the Obama administration.

Still, he’s viewed skeptically by a Republican base wary of his support for immigration reform that includes a pathway to citizenship and of a debt reduction plan that would raise new revenue in addition to cutting entitlement and other spending.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
April 19 2015 22:45 GMT
#37219
On April 20 2015 07:36 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2015 04:24 Acrofales wrote:
On April 20 2015 02:13 Millitron wrote:
On April 20 2015 02:04 zlefin wrote:
On April 20 2015 01:46 Millitron wrote:
On April 20 2015 01:31 Gorsameth wrote:
Sigh thinking rich people will invest more if there were less taxes is an utter fallacy.

I would also bet that it would result in a major tax income loss because the difference in how much is spend on luxury items just isn't big enough. It is yet another measure that will not grow the economy, will hurt the middle class and will benefit the rich.

How will it benefit the rich? They'll pay higher taxes on all the stuff they buy. If you heavily tax stuff rich people want, there is no net loss of tax income. I'm talking 15-20% taxes on new mansions, high-end sports cars, private jets, things like that. And like I said, there's no tax loopholes to cheat with in a sales tax, because it happens at check-out, and has no exemptions. Keeping money in off-shore accounts will do no good, because the sale happens in the US.

You CAN curb investment with taxes. If you tax too much, there simply is no money left to invest. You want to tax money that is obviously not going to investment, i.e. money that's spent on stuff.

There's quite a bit of research on the effect of various tax types.
I'm not sure of the effects if the sales tax on luxuries is significantly higher than the regular sales tax.

Sales taxes in general tend to be somewhat regressive (affecting the poor more than the rich).


as to loopholes, sales tax is just as vulnerable to having loopholes as income tax, or at least that's my impression, do you have citations to the contrary? obviously a no exceptions sales tax might not, but the same would apply to a no exceptions income tax.

A sales tax doesn't have to be a flat tax though. You can charge much higher taxes on things rich people buy, so as to prevent it from being regressive. Poor people aren't buying private jets, mansions, or Kobe beef. So you heavily tax the high end stuff, and it is effectively the same as variable income tax. Instead of "make more money, pay higher taxes" it's "buy more expensive stuff, pay higher taxes".

There are no loopholes if the taxes are done like they are in Europe. Sales taxes are figured in to the total price of the item. Unlike in the US, where an 8% sales tax on an item with a sticker price of $100 means you actually pay $108, in Europe the sticker price includes the sales tax and in this case would be $108.

The only loophole I can see is importing stuff. Unless you pay tariffs, any purchase outside the country wouldn't be taxed I guess. Other than that though, I can't see any loopholes because there's no paperwork to cheat on.


Poor people buy regular beef, though. So if I want cheep Kobe beef I will find a lawyer to somehow classify my Kobe beef as regular beef, and thereby avoid paying "luxury" sales tax. And the same goes for sports cars, private jets and pretty much everything else you can come up with: somebody is buying something similar for a legitimate business or livelihood purpose.

No, see there's no luxury classification. I don't tax stuff more heavily because some committee found the item to be a luxury, I tax it more heavily because it's more expensive. You want Kobe beef with low tax? You gotta find some that doesn't cost much before the tax. An example might be this. A cheap $10 steak might have say, 5% tax. But a nice $80 Kobe might have 15% tax. And this isn't because it's a Kobe, it's because it was priced at $80. The taxes are basically set by the market. A business indirectly decides how much tax it's customers will pay for its products, because they decide the price of the product to begin with.

And now the restaurants that buy their beef in bulk and in huge slabs get screwed because they bought cuts that are over $100, even if the price for pound is the same as the guy who got a 2 ounce steak.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28740 Posts
April 19 2015 22:47 GMT
#37220
On April 20 2015 04:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2015 04:37 wei2coolman wrote:
On April 20 2015 04:30 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 20 2015 04:28 farvacola wrote:
That ticket sucks so thank goodness it could never happen.


why does it suck?

because scientists aren't politicians.


What's good about a politician?


While I very much understand skepticism towards politicians, especially when you live somewhere they're commonly portrayed (and sometimes portray themselves) as conniving bastards who care more about winning reelection than creating societal betterment, being a good politician is incredibly demanding, and the (Norwegian) politicians I've known myself are overall incredibly knowledgeable people, with a near-academic understanding of many different subjects.

I think American politicians are not necessarily less competent or knowledgeable overall. (Someone like Ted Cruz, whose political beliefs I have nearly nothing in common with and whose statements I frequently consider absurd, is still obviously very intelligent. He did such a great job for Princeton's debate team that they named a championship after him. ) However, there are vast differences in the public's trust in politicians. (from this we can see that when asked "In your country, how would you rate the ethical standards of politicians?"
1 = extremely low; 7 = extremely high we can see that Norway scores a 5.9, whereas the US scores a 3.4. ) Which goes in line with yours seemingly having reelection as the highest priority. ;p But like, many politicians are very competent and ethically conscious..
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