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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1557

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8541 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-02 22:57:51
January 02 2015 22:53 GMT
#31121
On January 03 2015 07:42 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 06:54 silynxer wrote:
On January 03 2015 06:47 Jormundr wrote:
On January 03 2015 06:29 silynxer wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:10 Danglars wrote:
On January 03 2015 00:57 Skilledblob wrote:
why should it be MLK day anyway? He was certainly an important part of the civil rights movement, but would it not make more sense to use a national holiday for the movement in general not just for one person? To me it looks like a case of "great man history" when in fact one single man doesnt change much.
He was a Republican too, which has to count against his role in the civil rights movement. I mean, considering how much that party has purportedly worked against minority rights since time immemorial.



We all know "Republicans" became something different after the "southern strategy" than they were in the past. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

To be honest, I don't know a lot about Martin Luther King and all that but I am a bit confused. Isn't the Martin Luther King Day in honor of MLK Jr. who was not a republican?
Are you confusing him with his father or am I missing something?

Minor history lesson:
The democrats used to be the party of extremely racist white people. They even spawned the dixiecrats post WWII. All of these nigger-hating white folk moved to the Republican party between 1960 and 1990. This has grown much more apparent in recent years, driving black republicans into near extinction.

Yeah I know but to my knowledge MLKs leanings were socialist so I would have been very surprised if he had been a republican (which it turns out he wasn't).

I find that claim highly suspect, since a great way to silence a lot of political opponents of that day was to slap a Communist/Socialist tag on them.


I heard being black did/does not help either. maybe he just wanted to go all the way?

//edit: "socialist leaning" is generally speaking not incorrect. he was a baptist minister, and people who take christianity seriously will find a lot of common ground with "socialist beliefs". along party lines it's hard of course, especially if the choice is only blue or red.
silynxer
Profile Joined April 2006
Germany439 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-02 23:41:40
January 02 2015 22:59 GMT
#31122
On January 03 2015 07:42 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 06:54 silynxer wrote:
On January 03 2015 06:47 Jormundr wrote:
On January 03 2015 06:29 silynxer wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:10 Danglars wrote:
On January 03 2015 00:57 Skilledblob wrote:
why should it be MLK day anyway? He was certainly an important part of the civil rights movement, but would it not make more sense to use a national holiday for the movement in general not just for one person? To me it looks like a case of "great man history" when in fact one single man doesnt change much.
He was a Republican too, which has to count against his role in the civil rights movement. I mean, considering how much that party has purportedly worked against minority rights since time immemorial.



We all know "Republicans" became something different after the "southern strategy" than they were in the past. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

To be honest, I don't know a lot about Martin Luther King and all that but I am a bit confused. Isn't the Martin Luther King Day in honor of MLK Jr. who was not a republican?
Are you confusing him with his father or am I missing something?

Minor history lesson:
The democrats used to be the party of extremely racist white people. They even spawned the dixiecrats post WWII. All of these nigger-hating white folk moved to the Republican party between 1960 and 1990. This has grown much more apparent in recent years, driving black republicans into near extinction.

Yeah I know but to my knowledge MLKs leanings were socialist so I would have been very surprised if he had been a republican (which it turns out he wasn't).

I find that claim highly suspect, since a great way to silence a lot of political opponents of that day was to slap a Communist/Socialist tag on them.

And this is presumably why he wasn't public about it (just wikipedia knowledge but doesn't seem to be disputed).
[EDIT]: This letter is the main source given at Wikipedia and if there are no later documents that show a change of mind, it is pretty clear.
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-02 23:21:25
January 02 2015 23:21 GMT
#31123
On January 03 2015 07:53 Introvert wrote:
That's an awkward telling of the "Southern Strategy," but that's not surprising either. For instance to say that they were "generally associated" with the Democrats isn't strong enough. The KKK was basically an arm of the Democrat party in their prime.

The SS is more complicated than "all the racist people moved parties" and without going into too much detail, we can easily point to Robert Byrd, someone people loved the whole time up to his death. He did more than give a few speeches.

My explanation was extremely generalized so I didn't have to check facts or dates. And yeah military arm is probably a way better way to put it.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 03 2015 01:00 GMT
#31124
On January 03 2015 06:29 silynxer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 05:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:10 Danglars wrote:
On January 03 2015 00:57 Skilledblob wrote:
why should it be MLK day anyway? He was certainly an important part of the civil rights movement, but would it not make more sense to use a national holiday for the movement in general not just for one person? To me it looks like a case of "great man history" when in fact one single man doesnt change much.
He was a Republican too, which has to count against his role in the civil rights movement. I mean, considering how much that party has purportedly worked against minority rights since time immemorial.



We all know "Republicans" became something different after the "southern strategy" than they were in the past. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

To be honest, I don't know a lot about Martin Luther King and all that but I am a bit confused. Isn't the Martin Luther King Day in honor of MLK Jr. who was not a republican? Are you confusing him with his father or am I missing something?

[EDIT]: Wikipedia certainly doesn't mention it and additionally I found this: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/08/28/2540251/martin-luther-king-republican/
It appears however that several republicans have made this claim before, which is as absurd as it is heinous. Must be a strange world you live in Danglars.
You can ask his niece, or examine the surrounding historical time period where it was the Democrats enforcing Jim Crow laws and predominantly segregationist. I don't know how far we've come to not recognize where the message of personal responsibility fits. Under heavy scrutiny, perhaps not enough either way. Nice ThinkProgress link too. You might've done just as well choosing a DNC link.

Keep the holiday just as well.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-03 01:08:58
January 03 2015 01:08 GMT
#31125
On January 03 2015 10:00 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 06:29 silynxer wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:10 Danglars wrote:
On January 03 2015 00:57 Skilledblob wrote:
why should it be MLK day anyway? He was certainly an important part of the civil rights movement, but would it not make more sense to use a national holiday for the movement in general not just for one person? To me it looks like a case of "great man history" when in fact one single man doesnt change much.
He was a Republican too, which has to count against his role in the civil rights movement. I mean, considering how much that party has purportedly worked against minority rights since time immemorial.



We all know "Republicans" became something different after the "southern strategy" than they were in the past. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

To be honest, I don't know a lot about Martin Luther King and all that but I am a bit confused. Isn't the Martin Luther King Day in honor of MLK Jr. who was not a republican? Are you confusing him with his father or am I missing something?

[EDIT]: Wikipedia certainly doesn't mention it and additionally I found this: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/08/28/2540251/martin-luther-king-republican/
It appears however that several republicans have made this claim before, which is as absurd as it is heinous. Must be a strange world you live in Danglars.
You can ask his niece, or examine the surrounding historical time period where it was the Democrats enforcing Jim Crow laws and predominantly segregationist. I don't know how far we've come to not recognize where the message of personal responsibility fits. Under heavy scrutiny, perhaps not enough either way. Nice ThinkProgress link too. You might've done just as well choosing a DNC link.

Keep the holiday just as well.


bitches about thinkprogress, points to Alveda King as a reliable source

lol
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
January 03 2015 01:13 GMT
#31126
On January 03 2015 10:08 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 10:00 Danglars wrote:
On January 03 2015 06:29 silynxer wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 03 2015 05:10 Danglars wrote:
On January 03 2015 00:57 Skilledblob wrote:
why should it be MLK day anyway? He was certainly an important part of the civil rights movement, but would it not make more sense to use a national holiday for the movement in general not just for one person? To me it looks like a case of "great man history" when in fact one single man doesnt change much.
He was a Republican too, which has to count against his role in the civil rights movement. I mean, considering how much that party has purportedly worked against minority rights since time immemorial.



We all know "Republicans" became something different after the "southern strategy" than they were in the past. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

To be honest, I don't know a lot about Martin Luther King and all that but I am a bit confused. Isn't the Martin Luther King Day in honor of MLK Jr. who was not a republican? Are you confusing him with his father or am I missing something?

[EDIT]: Wikipedia certainly doesn't mention it and additionally I found this: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/08/28/2540251/martin-luther-king-republican/
It appears however that several republicans have made this claim before, which is as absurd as it is heinous. Must be a strange world you live in Danglars.
You can ask his niece, or examine the surrounding historical time period where it was the Democrats enforcing Jim Crow laws and predominantly segregationist. I don't know how far we've come to not recognize where the message of personal responsibility fits. Under heavy scrutiny, perhaps not enough either way. Nice ThinkProgress link too. You might've done just as well choosing a DNC link.

Keep the holiday just as well.


bitches about thinkprogress, points to Alveda King as a reliable source

lol

With a pinch of ignoring the own mans words and a splash of denying history. Reality be damned! There are ridiculous arguments to be made!
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 03 2015 01:49 GMT
#31127
Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke issued a warning to Republicans who have criticized House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) for speaking to a white nationalist group in 2002, saying they "better be looking over their shoulders."

In an interview with Fusion, Duke said he has ties to politicians on both sides of the aisle, and he is ready to release names if criticism of Scalise continues:

Overall, Duke was rather flabbergasted by the new focus on Scalise. He said he has hosted both Democratic and Republican legislators at everything from conferences to his children’s birthday parties. He said he has met with Democratic legislators at least 50 times in his political life.

And he delivered a warning to both Republicans and Democrats: Treat Scalise fairly, and don’t try to make political hay out of the situation. Or he said he would be inclined to release a list of names of all the politicians — both Republicans and Democrats — with whom he has ties.

“If Scalise is going to be crucified — if Republicans want to throw Steve Scalise to the woods, then a lot of them better be looking over their shoulders,” Duke said.


Scalise has struggled to distance himself from Duke since a Louisiana blogger revealed earlier this week that the GOP leader had associated with the former KKK Grand Wizard and had spoken to a group Duke founded, the European-American Unity and Rights Organization, in 2002.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 03 2015 03:24 GMT
#31128
Get ready: The FCC says it will vote on net neutrality in February
Federal regulators looking to place restrictions on Internet providers will introduce and vote on new proposed net neutrality rules in February, Federal Communications Commission officials said Friday.

President Obama's top telecom regulator, Tom Wheeler, told fellow FCC commissioners before the Christmas holiday that he intends to circulate a draft proposal internally next month with an eye toward approving the measure weeks later, said one official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the agency's deliberations are ongoing. The rules are meant to keep broadband providers such as Verizon and Comcast from speeding up or slowing down some Web sites compared to others.

FCC spokeswoman Kim Hart declined to comment on Wheeler's communications with his colleagues, but confirmed the February timetable, which ends weeks of speculation as to when the FCC would make its next move.

It's still unclear what rules Wheeler has in mind for Internet providers. Analysts and officials close to the agency say that momentum has been building recently for far more aggressive regulations than Wheeler had initially proposed. Advocates of strong net neutrality, including President Obama, have urged the FCC to begin regulating Internet service providers using the same law it uses to oversee telephone companies — Title II of the Communications Act. Industry advocates have resisted that call, saying the FCC should continue to lightly regulate Internet providers under Title I of the act.

WaPo
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
January 03 2015 03:53 GMT
#31129
On January 03 2015 12:24 Danglars wrote:
Get ready: The FCC says it will vote on net neutrality in February
Show nested quote +
Federal regulators looking to place restrictions on Internet providers will introduce and vote on new proposed net neutrality rules in February, Federal Communications Commission officials said Friday.

President Obama's top telecom regulator, Tom Wheeler, told fellow FCC commissioners before the Christmas holiday that he intends to circulate a draft proposal internally next month with an eye toward approving the measure weeks later, said one official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the agency's deliberations are ongoing. The rules are meant to keep broadband providers such as Verizon and Comcast from speeding up or slowing down some Web sites compared to others.

FCC spokeswoman Kim Hart declined to comment on Wheeler's communications with his colleagues, but confirmed the February timetable, which ends weeks of speculation as to when the FCC would make its next move.

It's still unclear what rules Wheeler has in mind for Internet providers. Analysts and officials close to the agency say that momentum has been building recently for far more aggressive regulations than Wheeler had initially proposed. Advocates of strong net neutrality, including President Obama, have urged the FCC to begin regulating Internet service providers using the same law it uses to oversee telephone companies — Title II of the Communications Act. Industry advocates have resisted that call, saying the FCC should continue to lightly regulate Internet providers under Title I of the act.

WaPo



You left out the interesting part of the article

Republican lawmakers are expected to introduce legislation this month to preempt any FCC rule on the subject.


Which links to the article that says this:

Republicans may find it difficult to attract enough conservative support for a net neutrality bill that updates the FCC's powers. Many of the most outspoken critics of the agency, such as Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) or Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.), ardently oppose any new regulations on Internet providers.

But with enough bipartisan support, Republicans could quickly move a bill to Obama's desk. Whether the president signs it could hinge on whether he could claim it as a political victory, policy analysts say. If the bill is seen as not aggressive enough, Obama will likely veto the legislation, observers said. Cast as a compromise giving the FCC wide latitude over net neutrality, the bill could pass — particularly if industry officials offer not to sue the FCC over its proposed rules, analysts have said.


source

This will probably be the first significant test of the functionality of the new Congress on important legislation. Will Republicans be able to write and pass any legislation in time? Anything that can get signed by Obama will certainly upset many conservatives and will be viewed as Republicans coming around to Obama's positions even if Republicans get some credit for passing what would be essentially what he's been pushing against them for the whole time.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
January 03 2015 05:18 GMT
#31130
I'm so torn on Net Neutrality. I love the open-ness and freedom of the internet, so I'm worried about FCC regulation of the internet. But I hate how ISP's are some of the most vile companies around right now and also don't care about the freedom of the internet. Like, how can I argue in favor of the free market when the free market itself is what's threatening the freedom of the internet?

The only way to keep ISP's from de facto censoring the internet would be to regulate them, but giving the FCC the authority to regulate the internet is just as bad. I guess maybe you could break out the anti-trust laws and smack down Comcast and friends, but that's not gonna happen since basically everyone with any authority on the issue in the FCC used to work for this or that ISP.
Who called in the fleet?
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
January 03 2015 05:57 GMT
#31131
On January 03 2015 14:18 Millitron wrote:
I'm so torn on Net Neutrality. I love the open-ness and freedom of the internet, so I'm worried about FCC regulation of the internet. But I hate how ISP's are some of the most vile companies around right now and also don't care about the freedom of the internet. Like, how can I argue in favor of the free market when the free market itself is what's threatening the freedom of the internet?

The only way to keep ISP's from de facto censoring the internet would be to regulate them, but giving the FCC the authority to regulate the internet is just as bad. I guess maybe you could break out the anti-trust laws and smack down Comcast and friends, but that's not gonna happen since basically everyone with any authority on the issue in the FCC used to work for this or that ISP.

Yeah, I'm similarly ambivalent. There's no doubt that ISPs are exploitative companies willing to sell out their customers to the NSA for the right price, but I can't help but feel that FCC regulation will basically lead to SOPA through the backdoor, i.e. slippery sloping ourselves to stiff punishments for file-sharers in the name of cracking down on internet piracy.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11854 Posts
January 03 2015 06:17 GMT
#31132
On January 03 2015 14:57 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 14:18 Millitron wrote:
I'm so torn on Net Neutrality. I love the open-ness and freedom of the internet, so I'm worried about FCC regulation of the internet. But I hate how ISP's are some of the most vile companies around right now and also don't care about the freedom of the internet. Like, how can I argue in favor of the free market when the free market itself is what's threatening the freedom of the internet?

The only way to keep ISP's from de facto censoring the internet would be to regulate them, but giving the FCC the authority to regulate the internet is just as bad. I guess maybe you could break out the anti-trust laws and smack down Comcast and friends, but that's not gonna happen since basically everyone with any authority on the issue in the FCC used to work for this or that ISP.

Yeah, I'm similarly ambivalent. There's no doubt that ISPs are exploitative companies willing to sell out their customers to the NSA for the right price, but I can't help but feel that FCC regulation will basically lead to SOPA through the backdoor, i.e. slippery sloping ourselves to stiff punishments for file-sharers in the name of cracking down on internet piracy.


What would be wrong with putting the things ISPs are allowed or not allowed to do into rulings that the FCC then enforce? Meaning you don't make FCC all powerful, you simply make them an enforcement arm. Similar to DEA or other agencies under the U.S. Department of Justice.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8541 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-03 06:42:50
January 03 2015 06:36 GMT
#31133
On January 03 2015 14:18 Millitron wrote:
I'm so torn on Net Neutrality. I love the open-ness and freedom of the internet, so I'm worried about FCC regulation of the internet. But I hate how ISP's are some of the most vile companies around right now and also don't care about the freedom of the internet. Like, how can I argue in favor of the free market when the free market itself is what's threatening the freedom of the internet?

The only way to keep ISP's from de facto censoring the internet would be to regulate them, but giving the FCC the authority to regulate the internet is just as bad. I guess maybe you could break out the anti-trust laws and smack down Comcast and friends, but that's not gonna happen since basically everyone with any authority on the issue in the FCC used to work for this or that ISP.



I get what you are saying, but are somehow conflating multiple huge problems all at once. that's a sure way to get disappointed.

you have to fight for a free and open internet - best way to do that is have transparency and oversight of and for the FCC. and then fight against surveillance/ISPs being dickwads and quasi monopolies.

trying to fix everything at once - or trying to make calculated decisions based on less than optimal real life factors - is a recipe for certain disaster.

biggest problem is that people don't care. and they don't care because they are not knowledgeable enough about what is at stake.
and the (mainstream) media is throwing smoke grenades instead of covering the issue/making the people more knowledgeable.

//edit:

There's no doubt that ISPs are exploitative companies willing to sell out their customers to the NSA for the right price,...


that makes me so angry... the nsa or government will not lure ISPs into giving their user's data and info to the all seeing eye for money... they come and say "national security - thank you for cooperating, resistance is futile". and most will cave because TERRORISTS WIN IF YOU DON'T GIVE US WHAT WE WANT and no harm done anyway, right?
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 03 2015 14:34 GMT
#31134
On January 03 2015 15:17 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 14:57 coverpunch wrote:
On January 03 2015 14:18 Millitron wrote:
I'm so torn on Net Neutrality. I love the open-ness and freedom of the internet, so I'm worried about FCC regulation of the internet. But I hate how ISP's are some of the most vile companies around right now and also don't care about the freedom of the internet. Like, how can I argue in favor of the free market when the free market itself is what's threatening the freedom of the internet?

The only way to keep ISP's from de facto censoring the internet would be to regulate them, but giving the FCC the authority to regulate the internet is just as bad. I guess maybe you could break out the anti-trust laws and smack down Comcast and friends, but that's not gonna happen since basically everyone with any authority on the issue in the FCC used to work for this or that ISP.

Yeah, I'm similarly ambivalent. There's no doubt that ISPs are exploitative companies willing to sell out their customers to the NSA for the right price, but I can't help but feel that FCC regulation will basically lead to SOPA through the backdoor, i.e. slippery sloping ourselves to stiff punishments for file-sharers in the name of cracking down on internet piracy.


What would be wrong with putting the things ISPs are allowed or not allowed to do into rulings that the FCC then enforce? Meaning you don't make FCC all powerful, you simply make them an enforcement arm. Similar to DEA or other agencies under the U.S. Department of Justice.


Another DEA is about the last thing that we need.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 03 2015 20:07 GMT
#31135
On January 03 2015 15:17 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 14:57 coverpunch wrote:
On January 03 2015 14:18 Millitron wrote:
I'm so torn on Net Neutrality. I love the open-ness and freedom of the internet, so I'm worried about FCC regulation of the internet. But I hate how ISP's are some of the most vile companies around right now and also don't care about the freedom of the internet. Like, how can I argue in favor of the free market when the free market itself is what's threatening the freedom of the internet?

The only way to keep ISP's from de facto censoring the internet would be to regulate them, but giving the FCC the authority to regulate the internet is just as bad. I guess maybe you could break out the anti-trust laws and smack down Comcast and friends, but that's not gonna happen since basically everyone with any authority on the issue in the FCC used to work for this or that ISP.

Yeah, I'm similarly ambivalent. There's no doubt that ISPs are exploitative companies willing to sell out their customers to the NSA for the right price, but I can't help but feel that FCC regulation will basically lead to SOPA through the backdoor, i.e. slippery sloping ourselves to stiff punishments for file-sharers in the name of cracking down on internet piracy.


What would be wrong with putting the things ISPs are allowed or not allowed to do into rulings that the FCC then enforce? Meaning you don't make FCC all powerful, you simply make them an enforcement arm. Similar to DEA or other agencies under the U.S. Department of Justice.
Their discretion and interpretation in enforcement could easily be as damaging as the ISP practices originally criticized. If the danger is real and fears well-founded, then the real recourse is to pass a law delineating offenses, period. I see no sense in letting this agency be legislator, judge, and jury when hardly a soul can even name one member.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
January 03 2015 20:33 GMT
#31136
On January 04 2015 05:07 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 15:17 Yurie wrote:
On January 03 2015 14:57 coverpunch wrote:
On January 03 2015 14:18 Millitron wrote:
I'm so torn on Net Neutrality. I love the open-ness and freedom of the internet, so I'm worried about FCC regulation of the internet. But I hate how ISP's are some of the most vile companies around right now and also don't care about the freedom of the internet. Like, how can I argue in favor of the free market when the free market itself is what's threatening the freedom of the internet?

The only way to keep ISP's from de facto censoring the internet would be to regulate them, but giving the FCC the authority to regulate the internet is just as bad. I guess maybe you could break out the anti-trust laws and smack down Comcast and friends, but that's not gonna happen since basically everyone with any authority on the issue in the FCC used to work for this or that ISP.

Yeah, I'm similarly ambivalent. There's no doubt that ISPs are exploitative companies willing to sell out their customers to the NSA for the right price, but I can't help but feel that FCC regulation will basically lead to SOPA through the backdoor, i.e. slippery sloping ourselves to stiff punishments for file-sharers in the name of cracking down on internet piracy.


What would be wrong with putting the things ISPs are allowed or not allowed to do into rulings that the FCC then enforce? Meaning you don't make FCC all powerful, you simply make them an enforcement arm. Similar to DEA or other agencies under the U.S. Department of Justice.
Their discretion and interpretation in enforcement could easily be as damaging as the ISP practices originally criticized. If the danger is real and fears well-founded, then the real recourse is to pass a law delineating offenses, period. I see no sense in letting this agency be legislator, judge, and jury when hardly a soul can even name one member.


First I'll say that the DEA is a horrible model, at least when it comes to behavior.

I think the issue is if it's not the FCC enforcing the rules/laws than who would/should it be? Are we going to send the NYPD to arrest people/a company if they break the rules? Not likely, so which arm of the government if not the FCC would you like to monitor and enforce those rules?

No one has been stopping Republicans from writing their own legislation to counter the bill that has already been proposed (Lord knows they haven't been doing much). So it's nice to say they want it to be done legislatively but they are the only reason it hasn't already been done. It's Republicans that are breaking from the position of supporting openly and intentionally allowing companies to set up tiered pricing access for certain sites that gives them a sliver of hope of actually functioning in Congress on this issue.

In other news:

In his latest estimate of when he'll make a 2016 decision, Ben Carson said Friday he'll announce "before May 1" whether he will seek the Republican presidential nomination.

The renowned neurosurgeon and conservative activist said on NewsMaxTV's "America's Forum" that he's now studying up on the issues and preparing for the intellectual rigor of a presidential campaign.

Ben Carson: Political phenomenon

"I would just say that I am listening extremely carefully. I don't want to do something that the American people do not want me to do," he said, also saying he'll decide "in a few months."

Inside the push to draft Ben Carson for president

Carson rocketed to conservative fame in 2013 after criticizing the president's policies at a national prayer breakfast. While he's enjoyed a vocal and loyal following since expressing interest in a presidential campaign, he's made headlines for controversial comments about issues like same-sex marriage and Obamacare.

Ben Carson stands by comparison of U.S. to Nazi Germany

Still, Carson placed third in a recent CNN/ORC International Poll measuring support for potential Republican presidential contenders, falling behind former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie.

Previously Carson has said "the likelihood is strong" that he'll seek the nomination.


Source

Do conservatives really think this guy is remotely qualified for president?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 03 2015 20:47 GMT
#31137
On Friday afternoons, several dozen people line up in the narrow hallway of Prevention Point Philadelphia. The men and women, all ages, hold paper and plastic bags full of used syringes.

"We obviously have a space challenge, but people come in, they drop off their used syringes and they ask for what they need," says Silvana Mazzella, the director of programs at the service center for injection drug users.

Most people are coming in with just a few needles, and get a small bag of several new needles and supplies in return. But participants can take as many new syringes as they want, as long as they turn in a dirty needle in for every new one they receive.

People who inject drugs risk contracting a number of different illnesses, including HIV and Hepatitis C, if they share used needles. As a prevention strategy, many cities have organizations like Prevention Point that give out clean syringes.

But because needle exchange sites are not always available where and when people inject, an unusual black market emerges — people bring in large numbers of used needles, and then resell the clean ones they receive.

One Prevention Point client who exchanges dirty needles in bulk does business on a corner about half a mile away, a block from where users can buy drugs and near some wooded train tracks where many people go to inject.

"You can exchange pretty much one old needle off the ground for a new set right there. Some people come in with 300, 400 works at a time," he says. NPR is not using his name because he's admitting to illegal activities, including selling needles.

This man gets $1 apiece for the clean syringes he receives from the exchange. Though banned under Pennsylvania law, the practice of needle resale is tolerated by the city, and he says he's the not the only one who does it.

"Like, it's their hustle, that's how they survive out here and support themselves," he says. "So that's how I do it. Sell a couple of these — sell a ton of 'em, you can get a bag to get high."

This post-industrial neighborhood of North Philadelphia is dotted with empty factories and homes. It's one of the city's most active areas for buying and using cocaine and heroin at all hours.

Paul Yabor, an AIDS activist and educator at Prevention Point, says that makes it important that drug users can get clean needles right here, too.

"It's two o'clock in the morning, and a guy's saying, 'here's a syringe for a dollar.' You know, there's a lot to be said for that," Yabor says.

Yabor, who was diagnosed with AIDS and Hepatitis C years ago, says some people don't feel comfortable picking up needles from the exchange. Others are looking to drop into the neighborhood, inject and get out fast.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 03 2015 21:20 GMT
#31138
On January 04 2015 05:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2015 05:07 Danglars wrote:
On January 03 2015 15:17 Yurie wrote:
On January 03 2015 14:57 coverpunch wrote:
On January 03 2015 14:18 Millitron wrote:
I'm so torn on Net Neutrality. I love the open-ness and freedom of the internet, so I'm worried about FCC regulation of the internet. But I hate how ISP's are some of the most vile companies around right now and also don't care about the freedom of the internet. Like, how can I argue in favor of the free market when the free market itself is what's threatening the freedom of the internet?

The only way to keep ISP's from de facto censoring the internet would be to regulate them, but giving the FCC the authority to regulate the internet is just as bad. I guess maybe you could break out the anti-trust laws and smack down Comcast and friends, but that's not gonna happen since basically everyone with any authority on the issue in the FCC used to work for this or that ISP.

Yeah, I'm similarly ambivalent. There's no doubt that ISPs are exploitative companies willing to sell out their customers to the NSA for the right price, but I can't help but feel that FCC regulation will basically lead to SOPA through the backdoor, i.e. slippery sloping ourselves to stiff punishments for file-sharers in the name of cracking down on internet piracy.


What would be wrong with putting the things ISPs are allowed or not allowed to do into rulings that the FCC then enforce? Meaning you don't make FCC all powerful, you simply make them an enforcement arm. Similar to DEA or other agencies under the U.S. Department of Justice.
Their discretion and interpretation in enforcement could easily be as damaging as the ISP practices originally criticized. If the danger is real and fears well-founded, then the real recourse is to pass a law delineating offenses, period. I see no sense in letting this agency be legislator, judge, and jury when hardly a soul can even name one member.


First I'll say that the DEA is a horrible model, at least when it comes to behavior.

I think the issue is if it's not the FCC enforcing the rules/laws than who would/should it be? Are we going to send the NYPD to arrest people/a company if they break the rules? Not likely, so which arm of the government if not the FCC would you like to monitor and enforce those rules?

No one has been stopping Republicans from writing their own legislation to counter the bill that has already been proposed (Lord knows they haven't been doing much). So it's nice to say they want it to be done legislatively but they are the only reason it hasn't already been done. It's Republicans that are breaking from the position of supporting openly and intentionally allowing companies to set up tiered pricing access for certain sites that gives them a sliver of hope of actually functioning in Congress on this issue.

In other news:

Show nested quote +
In his latest estimate of when he'll make a 2016 decision, Ben Carson said Friday he'll announce "before May 1" whether he will seek the Republican presidential nomination.

The renowned neurosurgeon and conservative activist said on NewsMaxTV's "America's Forum" that he's now studying up on the issues and preparing for the intellectual rigor of a presidential campaign.

Ben Carson: Political phenomenon

"I would just say that I am listening extremely carefully. I don't want to do something that the American people do not want me to do," he said, also saying he'll decide "in a few months."

Inside the push to draft Ben Carson for president

Carson rocketed to conservative fame in 2013 after criticizing the president's policies at a national prayer breakfast. While he's enjoyed a vocal and loyal following since expressing interest in a presidential campaign, he's made headlines for controversial comments about issues like same-sex marriage and Obamacare.

Ben Carson stands by comparison of U.S. to Nazi Germany

Still, Carson placed third in a recent CNN/ORC International Poll measuring support for potential Republican presidential contenders, falling behind former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie.

Previously Carson has said "the likelihood is strong" that he'll seek the nomination.


Source

Do conservatives really think this guy is remotely qualified for president?

Do liberals think he isn't? I mean what qualifies someone to be president other than being smart, knowledgeable about the issues and popular? The most relevant work experience I can think of is an executive role at a large organization (either private or government), which Obama didn't really have either.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
January 03 2015 21:23 GMT
#31139
Jonny, to what degree do you think the United States is like or is heading towards Nazi Germany?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
January 03 2015 21:34 GMT
#31140
On January 04 2015 06:23 farvacola wrote:
Jonny, to what degree do you think the United States is like or is heading towards Nazi Germany?

Well, police brutality, NSA surveillance, CIA torture, and agencies like the ATF and DEA being judge, jury, and executioner on anything remotely related to their task.
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