US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1513

On December 10 2014 14:32 oneofthem wrote:

yea, was in 2004.

(Reuters) - Poland threatened to halt the transfer of al Qaeda suspects to a secret CIA jail on its soil 11 years ago, but became more "flexible" after the Central Intelligence Agency gave it a large sum of money, according to a U.S. Senate report.

U.S. President Barack Obama discussed the report’s forthcoming publication during a telephone call on Monday with Polish Prime Minister Ewa Kopacz, administration officials and the Polish government said.

The heavily redacted report does not mention Poland. But it is clear it refers to the country because details such as the names of three detainees and the dates they were transferred match other documents, including a European Court of Human Rights ruling relating to a CIA-run "black site" in Poland.

The details also match interviews with people with knowledge of a Polish investigation into the alleged facility.

On December 11 2014 03:55 mcc wrote:
One somewhat tragicomic incident :

Though not only does it seem CIA is evil organization without enough oversight, they are also incompetent. That unfortunately does not prevent them from being effective at destroying other countries and people. And some people actually defend them.

On December 11 2014 08:23 oneofthem wrote:
a good collection of the primary source documents made public, including minority panel view and CIA response.

http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/12/released-ssci-detention-and-interrogation-study-along-with-minority-views-and-the-cias-response/

a summary of the bulletpoints of the report and responses,
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/12/findings-conclusions-and-areas-of-dispute-between-the-ssci-report-the-minority-and-the-cia-part-1/
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/12/findings-conclusions-and-areas-of-dispute-between-the-ssci-report-the-minority-and-the-cia-part-2/

On December 10 2014 13:22 IgnE wrote:


That should be obvious. Even the article Danglars links provides no real evidence, only a bald assertion that "torture works sometimes." Of course all the evidence is classified. Of course. We are just supposed to trust the torturers.

The Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on Central Intelligence Agency detention and interrogation of terrorists, prepared only by the Democratic majority staff, is a missed opportunity to deliver a serious and balanced study of an important public policy question. The committee has given us instead a one-sided study marred by errors of fact and interpretation—essentially a poorly done and partisan attack on the agency that has done the most to protect America after the 9/11 attacks. [...]

First, its claim that the CIA’s interrogation program was ineffective in producing intelligence that helped us disrupt, capture, or kill terrorists is just not accurate. The program was invaluable in three critical ways:

• It led to the capture of senior al Qaeda operatives, thereby removing them from the battlefield.

• It led to the disruption of terrorist plots and prevented mass casualty attacks, saving American and Allied lives.

• It added enormously to what we knew about al Qaeda as an organization and therefore informed our approaches on how best to attack, thwart and degrade it. [...]

The removal of these senior al Qaeda operatives saved thousands of lives because it ended their plotting. KSM, alone, was working on multiple plots when he was captured.

Here’s an example of how the interrogation program actually worked to disrupt terrorist plotting. Without revealing to KSM that Hambali had been captured, we asked him who might take over in the event that Hambali was no longer around. KSM pointed to Hambali’s brother Rusman Gunawan. We then found Gunawan, and information from him resulted in the takedown of a 17-member Southeast Asian cell that Gunawan had recruited for a “second wave,” 9/11-style attack on the U.S. West Coast, in all likelihood using aircraft again to attack buildings. Had that attack occurred, the nightmare of 9/11 would have been repeated.

The CIA is still lying about its post-9/11 torture program, even in the face of a devastating Senate report, Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) said Wednesday.

In a dramatic floor speech during his final month in the Senate, Udall said the CIA's lies have been aided and abetted by President Barack Obama's White House and called on the president to "purge" his administration of CIA officials who were involved in the interrogation program detailed in the report.

“It’s bad enough to not prosecute these officials, but to reward and promote them is incomprehensible,” Udall said. “The president needs to purge his administration.”

Udall said the lies are "not a problem of the past," citing the CIA's response to the 6,000-page torture report. He said the agency took seven months to write a formal comment after the Senate Intelligence Committee approved the report in December 2012 -- and when it did, it was full of lies and half-truths meant to justify the agency's actions.

"The CIA's formal response to this study under Director Brennan clings to false narratives about the CIA's effectiveness when it comes to the CIA's detention and interrogation program. It includes many factual inaccuracies, defends the use of torture and attacks the committee's oversight and findings," Udall said.

"I believe its flippant and dismissive tone represents the CIA's approach to oversight, and the White House's willingness to let the CIA to do whatever it likes -- even if it's actively undermining the president's stated policies."

Udall said a never-released internal CIA report begun under the agency's previous director, Leon Panetta, in fact supported many of the Senate's findings. But, he said, the CIA sought to bury it -- even taking the inflammatory step of spying on Senate staffers to find out how they gained access to it. That surveillance was the subject of a CIA inspector general report that found the agency had acted improperly.

The only solution for the CIA, Udall said, is a culture change, which should start with the departure of Brennan. Udall previously called for his resignation in July.

"While the study clearly shows that the CIA detention and interrogation program itself was deeply flawed, the deeper, more endemic problem lies in the CIA, assisted by a White House, that continues to try to cover up the truth," Udall said.

Brennan has defended the agency and criticized the Senate report, claiming it provided "an incomplete and selective picture of what occurred."

On December 11 2014 09:53 Danglars wrote:


Read the link to see the whole post and who collaborated on writing it. It saved thousands of American lives and prevented another attack. .

The removal of these senior al Qaeda operatives saved thousands of lives because it ended their plotting. KSM, alone, was working on multiple plots when he was captured.

On December 11 2014 09:53 Danglars wrote:
I don't know if you actually care if it works or not, whether or not that would change your opinion. For a lot of the people I talk to, it's a moral and legal argument for no and never. I think the Senate democrat hatchet job is testimony itself that they're scared to let the full story out--otherwise they'd have invited Republicans and interviewed scores of people. Leaders like Nancy Pelosi were briefed on these methods from the get-go (waterboarding in particular), and this is their save-face moment. Right before they lose the majority in the Senate, make a name for themselves and throw the intelligence community under the bus.

If they had cared enough to interview,
WSJ

Read the link to see the whole post and who collaborated on writing it. It saved thousands of American lives and prevented another attack. In the interests of historical accuracy, read into what was done with spies and false-uniform enemies in WW2, and spies and deserters in the civil war. I hear the calls for a new kind of warfare, but let's not forget how brutal war is and how many American soldiers are counting on intelligence that hardened Al-Qaeda terrorists won't willingly give up.

On December 11 2014 10:48 URfavHO wrote:
an interview with a James Mitchell, one of the people mentioned numerous times lately. He seems like a somewhat sharp fellow, albeit misguided.

http://youtu.be/MmNUi0itl-8?list=UUZaT_X_mc0BI-djXOlfhqWQ