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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On November 26 2014 07:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:51 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
gun culture + racial tension.
the 2nd amendment causes more trouble than anything else imo.
but its a constitutional right so what can you do... Also not really applicable since it was the police. Maybe not pinning all racial injustice on a case where not a lot of racial injustice took place.
more people with guns = more threat to police = police quicker to use deadly force.
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On November 26 2014 08:08 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:52 Plansix wrote:On November 26 2014 07:51 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
gun culture + racial tension.
the 2nd amendment causes more trouble than anything else imo.
but its a constitutional right so what can you do... Also not really applicable since it was the police. Maybe not pinning all racial injustice on a case where not a lot of racial injustice took place. more people with guns = more threat to police = police quicker to use deadly force.
idk, cops are pretty slow to use deadly force in peaceful but well-armed rural areas.
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On November 26 2014 08:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:05 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:01 Hryul wrote:On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself. wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell. In the sense that it doesn't make no sense to look at the riots in a vacuum. If the system ignores and marginalizes you to the point where you don't have much left then accidents like this can actually break the camels back. I feel like the whole riot is just a symptom for a completely non intact social fabric in Ferguson, and people should have done something about this decades ago. Can you explain how Ferguson can simultaneously be a place blacks want to live in, and also a hotbed for discrimination?
Well you don't just leave what you consider your home because the circumstances are difficult, and I'm pretty sure running away from discrimination is something people shouldn't need to do.
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On November 26 2014 07:31 Plansix wrote:
I don't believe people are stupid. But I do think they project to many of their own experiences of injustice onto a case simply because it involved someone of the same race. I try to understand the feel of that injustice(since I am white as the driven snow and will never fully understand it), but over the last two years people have picked terrible cases to hang their hat on. This case is terrible and should be used as an avatar for all racial injustice in America. There are simply more deserving people who should have that spotlight, because the issue is real. I just wish people would rally around those case, where everyone would be on the same page.
Ok I can somewhat vibe with that. This may not be the best case of racial injustice because hey, Wilson might have very well, truthfully, feared for his life. However, look at the history of those people with Ferguson law enforcement. Look at the history of McCulloch. Also take into account this is Missouri, and following the Trayvon and Sean Bell incidents in particular, why black people get upset. Everyone isn't going to rally around the more "deserving" cases because different circumstances hit different black people in different ways. Young black males that wear hoodies and have been stopped before by officers and "neighborhood watch" identify with Trayvon. People see Mike Brown as a dude that committed a crime and should have been arrested - not killed. The very fact that he is being made out to be a big scary black dude, called a demon by Wilson, and therefore a monster that needed to be put down...this is why outrage happens. It's damn impossible to tell people where they should be directing their outrage when they have so many causes to spark it.
On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though).
What other riots are there? You don't have to feel sorry for anybody. But understand WHY this is happening. I don't think you actually grasp the scope of what's going on here.
I don't know why America thinks Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton speak for all black people. They don't. Stop bringing them up every time you put black people on trial.
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On November 26 2014 08:13 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:05 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:01 Hryul wrote:On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself. wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell. In the sense that it doesn't make no sense to look at the riots in a vacuum. If the system ignores and marginalizes you to the point where you don't have much left then accidents like this can actually break the camels back. I feel like the whole riot is just a symptom for a completely non intact social fabric in Ferguson, and people should have done something about this decades ago. Can you explain how Ferguson can simultaneously be a place blacks want to live in, and also a hotbed for discrimination? Well you don't just leave what you consider your home because the circumstances are difficult, and I'm pretty sure running away from discrimination is something people shouldn't need to do.
Not what I'm asking. My understanding is that blacks have been moving into Ferguson over the last couple decades. I'm not asking why don't the leave, I'm asking why do they go there.
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On November 26 2014 08:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:13 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:05 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:01 Hryul wrote:On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself. wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell. In the sense that it doesn't make no sense to look at the riots in a vacuum. If the system ignores and marginalizes you to the point where you don't have much left then accidents like this can actually break the camels back. I feel like the whole riot is just a symptom for a completely non intact social fabric in Ferguson, and people should have done something about this decades ago. Can you explain how Ferguson can simultaneously be a place blacks want to live in, and also a hotbed for discrimination? Well you don't just leave what you consider your home because the circumstances are difficult, and I'm pretty sure running away from discrimination is something people shouldn't need to do. Not what I'm asking. My understanding is that blacks have been moving into Ferguson over the last couple decades. I'm not asking why don't the leave, I'm asking who do they go there.
I don't know. Maybe it was even worse where they were coming from. Also the population is pretty much as big as in the 60s. That means white people must have moved out which means the race divide has even gotten bigger. I don't know if that is a great argument against racism.
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On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself.
if i did it, i would just be called a racist.
so i will let bill cosby (a black man) do it.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer.
http://www.rense.com/general82/ana.htm
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On November 26 2014 08:14 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:31 Plansix wrote:
I don't believe people are stupid. But I do think they project to many of their own experiences of injustice onto a case simply because it involved someone of the same race. I try to understand the feel of that injustice(since I am white as the driven snow and will never fully understand it), but over the last two years people have picked terrible cases to hang their hat on. This case is terrible and should be used as an avatar for all racial injustice in America. There are simply more deserving people who should have that spotlight, because the issue is real. I just wish people would rally around those case, where everyone would be on the same page. Ok I can somewhat vibe with that. This may not be the best case of racial injustice because hey, Wilson might have very well, truthfully, feared for his life. However, look at the history of those people with Ferguson law enforcement. Look at the history of McCulloch. Also take into account this is Missouri, and following the Trayvon and Sean Bell incidents in particular, why black people get upset. Everyone isn't going to rally around the more "deserving" cases because different circumstances hit different black people in different ways. Young black males that wear hoodies and have been stopped before by officers and "neighborhood watch" identify with Trayvon. People see Mike Brown as a dude that committed a crime and should have been arrested - not killed. The very fact that he is being made out to be a big scary black dude, called a demon by Wilson, and therefore a monster that needed to be put down...this is why outrage happens. It's damn impossible to tell people where they should be directing their outrage when they have so many causes to spark it. Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). What other riots are there? You don't have to feel sorry for anybody. But understand WHY this is happening. I don't think you actually grasp the scope of what's going on here. I don't know why America thinks Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton speak for all black people. They don't. Stop bringing them up every time you put black people on trial.
trayvon martin. why would you assume i dont understand whats going on here? i didnt say sharpton spoke for all black people, nor did i mention jessee jackson. what is with your assumptions?
edit: just to be clear, obama is part of the problem and he clearly is a prominent figure. beergate anyone?
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On November 26 2014 08:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself. if i did it, i would just be called a racist. so i will let bill cosby (a black man) do it. Show nested quote +We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer. http://www.rense.com/general82/ana.htm
Bill Cosby, since he is black, must be right !
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On November 26 2014 08:24 dAPhREAk wrote:if i did it, i would just be called a racist. so i will let bill cosby (a black man) do it. Show nested quote +We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer. http://www.rense.com/general82/ana.htm
That's a very healthy attitude to have personally but the effects of discrimination are pretty evident. Native Americans are another group in the US that has a lot of problems. Or Muslims in Germany, France or Russia. It's not rocket science. Marginalized minorities face socio-economic problems all over the world, often proportionate to the degree of discrimination they have experienced, completely independent from what cultural attitudes they share or don't.
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Bill Cosby is right on some things but he's also very, very critical of young black males in unfair ways. Again, it's regarding the same thing with Sharpton, Jessie, MLK - don't quote these people as if they identify with every black person and speak for an entire race. Most black people don't blame white people for everything. We place a lot of blame on the system that is in place where the people in power, who are usually white and unknowingly at times perpetuate injustice, is allowed to thrive at the expense of black lives. This doesn't mean black people don't tell the lowlifes and hanger ons to get their shit together.
I mentioned Sharpton because of your Cosby vs Sharpton sentence. I've seen Sharpton brought up before in this thread, and just yesterday someone had the audacity to ask "What would MLK say about the riots?" as if that was even a legitimate stance.
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On November 26 2014 08:21 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:13 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:05 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:01 Hryul wrote:On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself. wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell. In the sense that it doesn't make no sense to look at the riots in a vacuum. If the system ignores and marginalizes you to the point where you don't have much left then accidents like this can actually break the camels back. I feel like the whole riot is just a symptom for a completely non intact social fabric in Ferguson, and people should have done something about this decades ago. Can you explain how Ferguson can simultaneously be a place blacks want to live in, and also a hotbed for discrimination? Well you don't just leave what you consider your home because the circumstances are difficult, and I'm pretty sure running away from discrimination is something people shouldn't need to do. Not what I'm asking. My understanding is that blacks have been moving into Ferguson over the last couple decades. I'm not asking why don't the leave, I'm asking who do they go there. I don't know. Maybe it was even worse where they were coming from. Also the population is pretty much as big as in the 60s. That means white people must have moved out which means the race divide has even gotten bigger. I don't know if that is a great argument against racism.
I thought people wouldn't leave just because their circumstances are difficult?
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On November 26 2014 08:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:21 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:13 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:05 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:01 Hryul wrote:On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest.
if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself. wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell. In the sense that it doesn't make no sense to look at the riots in a vacuum. If the system ignores and marginalizes you to the point where you don't have much left then accidents like this can actually break the camels back. I feel like the whole riot is just a symptom for a completely non intact social fabric in Ferguson, and people should have done something about this decades ago. Can you explain how Ferguson can simultaneously be a place blacks want to live in, and also a hotbed for discrimination? Well you don't just leave what you consider your home because the circumstances are difficult, and I'm pretty sure running away from discrimination is something people shouldn't need to do. Not what I'm asking. My understanding is that blacks have been moving into Ferguson over the last couple decades. I'm not asking why don't the leave, I'm asking who do they go there. I don't know. Maybe it was even worse where they were coming from. Also the population is pretty much as big as in the 60s. That means white people must have moved out which means the race divide has even gotten bigger. I don't know if that is a great argument against racism. I thought people wouldn't leave just because their circumstances are difficult?
Some do, some don't. Do you have an underlying point or are these just your usual one-liners again?
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On November 26 2014 08:35 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:24 dAPhREAk wrote:if i did it, i would just be called a racist. so i will let bill cosby (a black man) do it. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer. http://www.rense.com/general82/ana.htm That's a very healthy attitude to have personally but the effects of discrimination are pretty evident. Native Americans are another group in the US that has a lot of problems. Or Muslims in Germany, France or Russia. It's not rocket science. Marginalized minorities face socio-economic problems all over the world, often proportionate to the degree of discrimination they have experienced, completely independent from what cultural attitudes they share or don't.
no dispute that they face problems, but how they deal with them determines how their futures will develop. want to know another marginalized minority group in america? japanese. the U.S. government put them in camps, stole all of their lands and belongings and generally did bad shit to them. the U.S. government had propaganda material for the sole purpose of making it easier for americans to kill japanese (we were at war of course). all within the last century. how are the japanese doing in the modern day? pretty damn well. people use race as a crutch too often.
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On November 26 2014 08:35 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:24 dAPhREAk wrote:if i did it, i would just be called a racist. so i will let bill cosby (a black man) do it. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer. http://www.rense.com/general82/ana.htm That's a very healthy attitude to have personally but the effects of discrimination are pretty evident. Native Americans are another group in the US that has a lot of problems. Or Muslims in Germany, France or Russia. It's not rocket science. Marginalized minorities face socio-economic problems all over the world, often proportionate to the degree of discrimination they have experienced, completely independent from what cultural attitudes they share or don't.
Something else that bugs me about people invoking Al Sharpton et al. is the tendency to use straw men arguments about their positions.
For example, around the time that the Trayvon Martin case was picking up steam a number of Fox News talking heads had been repeatedly questioning why these leaders focus so much attention on cases like Trayvon's while ignoring issues like black on black violence. Meanwhile, just a few months earlier in November Sharpton had hosted an event in Chicago specifically related to black-on-black violence and aiming to reduce crimes in Chicago communities.
The idea that black leaders aren't engaging or are ignoring these problems is more indicative of an attempt to ignore the issue than a thoughtful input into the discussion.
Edit: sorry, replied to wrong comment. Meant this for Ace.
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On November 26 2014 07:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:03 Plansix wrote:On November 26 2014 07:01 Vegetarian wrote:On November 26 2014 06:55 Plansix wrote:On November 26 2014 06:53 Vegetarian wrote:
It isn't difficult to tell whether or not you have hit someone with a 40 caliber hand gun at a range that a person would be an imminent threat to you. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or have never been in a fight. One of my previously co workers got stabbed in the leg and didn't know until after the fight. So you are arguing that wilson would not know if he hit brown with his 40 caliber hand gun. And you claim that because brown might not have known he was shot that the officer would also not know? All because your co-worker got stabbed and didn't realize it? You do know that gun shot wounds are different from knife stabs? And your scenario applies to brown knowing whether or not he was injured, not wilson being able to tell whether or not he had hit brown. That's some mighty logic there. Once again, I stand by my initial statement that you are just going to confirmation bias you way through this argument. Facts don't matter to you, you will latch on to any little thing as long as you can cling to the idea that this case should have gone to trial. Problem is, 12 people disagreed with you and likely a couple of them were as smart or smarter than you. Well we don't know all 12 of them did anything only 9 for sure.
No that isn't correct. 9 had to be in favor of indictment.
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On November 26 2014 08:34 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 26 2014 07:33 Gorsameth wrote:On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote:
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest. if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent. also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself. if i did it, i would just be called a racist. so i will let bill cosby (a black man) do it. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer. http://www.rense.com/general82/ana.htm Bill Cosby, since he is black, must be right !
he's also a tv star
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On November 26 2014 08:38 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:21 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:13 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 26 2014 08:05 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:01 Hryul wrote:On November 26 2014 07:55 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 07:46 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent.
also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though). Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself. wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell. In the sense that it doesn't make no sense to look at the riots in a vacuum. If the system ignores and marginalizes you to the point where you don't have much left then accidents like this can actually break the camels back. I feel like the whole riot is just a symptom for a completely non intact social fabric in Ferguson, and people should have done something about this decades ago. Can you explain how Ferguson can simultaneously be a place blacks want to live in, and also a hotbed for discrimination? Well you don't just leave what you consider your home because the circumstances are difficult, and I'm pretty sure running away from discrimination is something people shouldn't need to do. Not what I'm asking. My understanding is that blacks have been moving into Ferguson over the last couple decades. I'm not asking why don't the leave, I'm asking who do they go there. I don't know. Maybe it was even worse where they were coming from. Also the population is pretty much as big as in the 60s. That means white people must have moved out which means the race divide has even gotten bigger. I don't know if that is a great argument against racism. I thought people wouldn't leave just because their circumstances are difficult? Some do, some don't. Do you have an underlying point or are these just your usual one-liners again?
Yeah, I'm trying to see if there are legitimate complaints of discrimination here or if it is the perception of discrimination at play.
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On November 26 2014 08:40 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 08:35 Nyxisto wrote:On November 26 2014 08:24 dAPhREAk wrote:if i did it, i would just be called a racist. so i will let bill cosby (a black man) do it. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer. http://www.rense.com/general82/ana.htm That's a very healthy attitude to have personally but the effects of discrimination are pretty evident. Native Americans are another group in the US that has a lot of problems. Or Muslims in Germany, France or Russia. It's not rocket science. Marginalized minorities face socio-economic problems all over the world, often proportionate to the degree of discrimination they have experienced, completely independent from what cultural attitudes they share or don't. no dispute that they face problems, but how they deal with them determines how their futures will develop. want to know another marginalized minority group in america? japanese. the U.S. government put them in camps, stole all of their lands and belongings and generally did bad shit to them. the U.S. government had propaganda material for the sole purpose of making it easier for americans to kill japanese (we were at war of course). all within the last century. how are the japanese doing in the modern day? pretty damn well. people use race as a crutch too often.
Frankly, the response of the black activist community to the grand jury's decision not to indict Wilson tells us all we need to know about the black community's utter failure at introspection and refusal to hold itself at all accountable for its circumstances.
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LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) — A federal judge struck down Arkansas' gay marriage ban on Tuesday, which could pave the way for county clerks to resume issuing licenses.
U.S. District Judge Kristine Baker ruled in favor of two same-sex couples who had challenged a 2004 constitutional amendment and earlier state law defining marriage as between a man and a woman, arguing that the ban violated the U.S. Constitution and discriminated based on sexual orientation.
But Baker put her ruling on hold, and the state is expected to appeal it to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals, based in St. Louis.
The ruling comes as the state Supreme Court weighs a separate case challenging the ban. Justices are weighing whether to uphold Pulaski County Circuit Judge Chris Piazza's decision in May striking down the 2004 amendment and earlier state law as unconstitutional. Piazza's decision led to 541 same sex couples getting married in the week before the state Supreme Court suspended his ruling.
Justices have not indicated when they will rule in that case. The lawsuit before the state Supreme Court also argues the ban violates Arkansas' constitution.
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