In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On November 26 2014 06:53 Vegetarian wrote: It isn't difficult to tell whether or not you have hit someone with a 40 caliber hand gun at a range that a person would be an imminent threat to you.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or have never been in a fight. One of my previously co workers got stabbed in the leg and didn't know until after the fight.
So you are arguing that wilson would not know if he hit brown with his 40 caliber hand gun. And you claim that because brown might not have known he was shot that the officer would also not know?
All because your co-worker got stabbed and didn't realize it? You do know that gun shot wounds are different from knife stabs? And your scenario applies to brown knowing whether or not he was injured, not wilson being able to tell whether or not he had hit brown. That's some mighty logic there.
Once again, I stand by my initial statement that you are just going to confirmation bias you way through this argument. Facts don't matter to you, you will latch on to any little thing as long as you can cling to the idea that this case should have gone to trial.
Problem is, 12 people disagreed with you and likely a couple of them were as smart or smarter than you.
Says the guy that blindly believes wilson's testimony despite it containing numerous lies. Cigarillos were never found at the scene so how was brown attacking wilson with the cigarillos in his hand as his testimony states?
Not to mention brown paid for the cigarillos and the police department has said wilson was unaware of the robbery when he stopped brown:
You're forgetting the testimony of the guy who was with Brown, who not only confirms that Brown stole from the store, but that before the altercation escalated, handed off the cigarillos to him (and he ran away, with the cigarillos).
You're just hilarious to watch, lol.
Woops, I guess someone missed that.(I did too, but I was under the impression that the theft by Brown was pretty much solid fact)
On November 26 2014 06:53 Vegetarian wrote: It isn't difficult to tell whether or not you have hit someone with a 40 caliber hand gun at a range that a person would be an imminent threat to you.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or have never been in a fight. One of my previously co workers got stabbed in the leg and didn't know until after the fight.
So you are arguing that wilson would not know if he hit brown with his 40 caliber hand gun. And you claim that because brown might not have known he was shot that the officer would also not know?
All because your co-worker got stabbed and didn't realize it? You do know that gun shot wounds are different from knife stabs? And your scenario applies to brown knowing whether or not he was injured, not wilson being able to tell whether or not he had hit brown. That's some mighty logic there.
Once again, I stand by my initial statement that you are just going to confirmation bias you way through this argument. Facts don't matter to you, you will latch on to any little thing as long as you can cling to the idea that this case should have gone to trial.
Problem is, 12 people disagreed with you and likely a couple of them were as smart or smarter than you.
Says the guy that blindly believes wilson's testimony despite it containing numerous lies. Cigarillos were never found at the scene so how was brown attacking wilson with the cigarillos in his hand as his testimony states?
Not to mention brown paid for the cigarillos and the police department has said wilson was unaware of the robbery when he stopped brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
You're forgetting the testimony of the guy who was with Brown, who not only confirms that Brown stole from the store, but that before the altercation escalated, handed off the cigarillos to him (and he ran away, with the cigarillos).
You're just hilarious to watch, lol.
Your ignorance is astonishing.
Read wilsons sword testimony before you make more of a fool of yourself.
Wilson claims that brown was fighting him through his window with one hand holding onto a bunch of cigarillos.
Now can you see the obvious point, or do I have to spell it out for you?
On November 26 2014 06:53 Vegetarian wrote: It isn't difficult to tell whether or not you have hit someone with a 40 caliber hand gun at a range that a person would be an imminent threat to you.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or have never been in a fight. One of my previously co workers got stabbed in the leg and didn't know until after the fight.
So you are arguing that wilson would not know if he hit brown with his 40 caliber hand gun. And you claim that because brown might not have known he was shot that the officer would also not know?
All because your co-worker got stabbed and didn't realize it? You do know that gun shot wounds are different from knife stabs? And your scenario applies to brown knowing whether or not he was injured, not wilson being able to tell whether or not he had hit brown. That's some mighty logic there.
Once again, I stand by my initial statement that you are just going to confirmation bias you way through this argument. Facts don't matter to you, you will latch on to any little thing as long as you can cling to the idea that this case should have gone to trial.
Problem is, 12 people disagreed with you and likely a couple of them were as smart or smarter than you.
Says the guy that blindly believes wilson's testimony despite it containing numerous lies. Cigarillos were never found at the scene so how was brown attacking wilson with the cigarillos in his hand as his testimony states?
Not to mention brown paid for the cigarillos and the police department has said wilson was unaware of the robbery when he stopped brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
You're forgetting the testimony of the guy who was with Brown, who not only confirms that Brown stole from the store, but that before the altercation escalated, handed off the cigarillos to him (and he ran away, with the cigarillos).
You're just hilarious to watch, lol.
Your ignorance is astonishing.
Read wilsons sword testimony before you make more of a fool of yourself.
Wilson claims that brown was fighting him through his window with one hand holding onto a bunch of cigarillos.
Now can you see the obvious point, or do I have to spell it out for you?
So you're only going to accept Wilsons testimony as fact while ignoring the other one entirely while claiming Wilson was lying?
He sort of like to cherry pick facts that fit his narrative and then go "Dont you see the truth behind it all?" We are not full claiming it was the lizard people level of non-sense, but we are well on the way.
Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
On November 26 2014 06:53 Vegetarian wrote: It isn't difficult to tell whether or not you have hit someone with a 40 caliber hand gun at a range that a person would be an imminent threat to you.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or have never been in a fight. One of my previously co workers got stabbed in the leg and didn't know until after the fight.
So you are arguing that wilson would not know if he hit brown with his 40 caliber hand gun. And you claim that because brown might not have known he was shot that the officer would also not know?
All because your co-worker got stabbed and didn't realize it? You do know that gun shot wounds are different from knife stabs? And your scenario applies to brown knowing whether or not he was injured, not wilson being able to tell whether or not he had hit brown. That's some mighty logic there.
Once again, I stand by my initial statement that you are just going to confirmation bias you way through this argument. Facts don't matter to you, you will latch on to any little thing as long as you can cling to the idea that this case should have gone to trial.
Problem is, 12 people disagreed with you and likely a couple of them were as smart or smarter than you.
Well we don't know all 12 of them did anything only 9 for sure.
And hey, if you think you are smarter than every single one of those 9-12 people who worked on this thing for 25 days, I guess you can think that. My ego doesn't rise to that level.
Nor mine. Although since jury duty sucks (time and money from your day and wallet) there is something to the saying
"When you go into court, you are putting your fate into the hands of twelve people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty." – Norm Crosby
I don't believe people are stupid. But I do think they project to many of their own experiences of injustice onto a case simply because it involved someone of the same race. I try to understand the feel of that injustice(since I am white as the driven snow and will never fully understand it), but over the last two years people have picked terrible cases to hang their hat on. This case is terrible and should be used as an avatar for all racial injustice in America. There are simply more deserving people who should have that spotlight, because the issue is real. I just wish people would rally around those case, where everyone would be on the same page.
Didn't the autopsy indicate the Brown was not shot in the back? Why are people still arguing when the testimonies that claim this are very clearly contradicting hard evidence?
On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote: Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest.
On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote: Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest.
if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent.
also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though).
On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote: Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest.
if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent.
also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though).
Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself.
On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote: Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest.
if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent.
also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though).
Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself.
Actually to be honest a lot of that has to do with the culture (which is indeed a by product of their history + socioeconomic conditions), as a minority myself I can very much confirm that its just a vicious never ending cycle that is very hard to get out of, and theres nothing much that anyone can do about it.
On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote: Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest.
if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent.
also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though).
Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself.
wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell.
On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote: Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
The difficulty is in untangling what really is unfair treatment vs what is perceived to be unfair treatment. Most whites would ask what another white did to get shot / arrested, so asking a black what they did wrong, is actually equitable treatment.
Same goes for the last two high profile unfair treatment cases (Treyvon Martin and Mike Brown). It's complaining about broader unfair treatment while using a case that doesn't support that opinion as evidence.
On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote: Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest.
if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent.
also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though).
Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself.
wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell.
In a way because it doesn't make any sense to look at the riots in a vacuum. If the system ignores and marginalizes you to the point where you don't have much left then accidents like this can actually break the camels back. I feel like the whole riot is just a symptom for a completely non intact social fabric in Ferguson, and people should have done something about this decades ago.
On November 26 2014 07:23 Ace wrote: Can't respond to every post in the last ~12 hours that I missed. All of these people are not rioting because they feel Brown was innocent. Some black people do feel Brown was a criminal and should have been prosecuted by the law. However, when a young black male is killed and the officer is given the benefit of the doubt - where there isn't a trial this upsets people.
I really don't want to post huge posts to outline this but black people have a long history of being abused by authorities in this country. In the past decade there have been many instances of black men being gunned down by police and not being prosecuted. This is where the disconnect comes from. As a black man I would not get that benefit of the doubt majority of the time. Hell, majority of America would ask what I did to deserve it rather than why the cop shot me. It's pretty alarming that some of you in here think many black people are too stupid to understand the decision and hence riot. Some are rioting because to them it's just another example of a police officer killing a young black man being justified by a system that doesn't give us a fair shot.
Exactly, regardless of the specifics of this case, it may have been correct use of force, its the underlying lack of faith in the system by black communities that lies at the hard of the unrest.
if people are going to riot regardless, it really is hard to feel sorry for them. there are riots when not indicted; there are riots when a jury finds them not guilty. i have yet to see someone say "hey, they are rioting, maybe we should give better consideration to them." nah. it just furthers the negative feelings towards the rioters and who they purport to represent.
also, when you have prominent figures in communities spouting nonsense and hate for the "system," and generally race baiting, they really should take the blame for this shit. consider cosby's take on it all vs. sharpton's. (maybe not the best reference considering recent rape allegations though).
Given the history of mistreatment of African-Americans in the United States and the discrimination they still face today which is obvious to see just by looking at some simple numbers like imprisonment rates, life expectancy, income and such I don't really know on what grounds you could put the blame on the group itself.
wait, are you actually taking side with the rioters? It's hard to tell.
In the sense that it doesn't make no sense to look at the riots in a vacuum. If the system ignores and marginalizes you to the point where you don't have much left then accidents like this can actually break the camels back. I feel like the whole riot is just a symptom for a completely non intact social fabric in Ferguson, and people should have done something about this decades ago.
Can you explain how Ferguson can simultaneously be a place blacks want to live in, and also a hotbed for discrimination?
EPT
