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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2014 00:00 Wolfstan wrote:Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.) Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see. We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities? I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community." Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance  But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. On average among the 75 cities, 49 percent of black police officers and 47 percent of Hispanic officers live within the city limits. But just 35 percent of white police officers do. The disparity is starkest in cities with largely black populations. In Detroit, for example, 57 percent of black police officers live in the city but just 8 percent of white ones do. Memphis, Tennessee; Baltimore; Birmingham, Alabama; and Jackson, Mississippi — also majority black — likewise have large racial gaps in where their police officers live. So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police?
No.
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On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2014 00:00 Wolfstan wrote:Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.) Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see. We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities? I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community." Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. On average among the 75 cities, 49 percent of black police officers and 47 percent of Hispanic officers live within the city limits. But just 35 percent of white police officers do. The disparity is starkest in cities with largely black populations. In Detroit, for example, 57 percent of black police officers live in the city but just 8 percent of white ones do. Memphis, Tennessee; Baltimore; Birmingham, Alabama; and Jackson, Mississippi — also majority black — likewise have large racial gaps in where their police officers live. So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police?
His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge.
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I generically rail against the poor handling of the criminal justice system in the US. As always, I think I could do a better job; maybe one day I'll find out how wrong I probably am about that.
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On August 23 2014 06:20 zlefin wrote:
I generically rail against the poor handling of the criminal justice system in the US. As always, I think I could do a better job; maybe one day I'll find out how wrong I probably am about that.
I would say the problems are so deep and systemic that no person can fix it. It will require a massive effort over decades to turn it around.
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On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2014 00:00 Wolfstan wrote:Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.) Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see. We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities? I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community." Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. On average among the 75 cities, 49 percent of black police officers and 47 percent of Hispanic officers live within the city limits. But just 35 percent of white police officers do. The disparity is starkest in cities with largely black populations. In Detroit, for example, 57 percent of black police officers live in the city but just 8 percent of white ones do. Memphis, Tennessee; Baltimore; Birmingham, Alabama; and Jackson, Mississippi — also majority black — likewise have large racial gaps in where their police officers live. So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge.
So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys.
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On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2014 00:00 Wolfstan wrote:Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.) Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see. We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities? I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community." Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. On average among the 75 cities, 49 percent of black police officers and 47 percent of Hispanic officers live within the city limits. But just 35 percent of white police officers do. The disparity is starkest in cities with largely black populations. In Detroit, for example, 57 percent of black police officers live in the city but just 8 percent of white ones do. Memphis, Tennessee; Baltimore; Birmingham, Alabama; and Jackson, Mississippi — also majority black — likewise have large racial gaps in where their police officers live. So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys.
Bye dont let the door hit you on the way out.
In all seriousness. The point made was that poor black people don't feel the police are part of their community.
Saying that you as a white middle class feel differently has no bearing on that at all.
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On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2014 00:00 Wolfstan wrote:Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.) Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see. We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities? I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community." Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. On average among the 75 cities, 49 percent of black police officers and 47 percent of Hispanic officers live within the city limits. But just 35 percent of white police officers do. The disparity is starkest in cities with largely black populations. In Detroit, for example, 57 percent of black police officers live in the city but just 8 percent of white ones do. Memphis, Tennessee; Baltimore; Birmingham, Alabama; and Jackson, Mississippi — also majority black — likewise have large racial gaps in where their police officers live. So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys.
Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though.
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On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2014 00:00 Wolfstan wrote:Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.) Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see. We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities? I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community." Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. On average among the 75 cities, 49 percent of black police officers and 47 percent of Hispanic officers live within the city limits. But just 35 percent of white police officers do. The disparity is starkest in cities with largely black populations. In Detroit, for example, 57 percent of black police officers live in the city but just 8 percent of white ones do. Memphis, Tennessee; Baltimore; Birmingham, Alabama; and Jackson, Mississippi — also majority black — likewise have large racial gaps in where their police officers live. So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys.
I know that the rich people where I live think very favorably of the police. Unfortunately that's not very informative. White people who aren't poor aren't policed. It's like saying that white people thought slavery was ok - of course they did, because they were never on the receiving end.
Our extremely rich and very conservative private school also encouraged diversity by hiring black kids for the high school basketball team and then kicking them all out senior year because they would lower the college acceptance rate. We were also the biggest drug school in town - by senior year half of the students were either high or drunk at school. Our class president had to be escorted off the podium during our graduation because he couldn't stand from 'exhaustion'.
Luckily, they were all rich and white, so instead of picking bullets out of their back and fumbling around for invisible bootstraps they all continued on to college.
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On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:[quote] Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. [quote] So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though.
If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth?
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On August 23 2014 06:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:
[quote]
So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though. If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth?
I am not offering personal experiences at all. How am I a bigot?
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On August 23 2014 06:53 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though. If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth? I am not offering personal experiences at all. How am I a bigot?
What does offering personal experiences have to do with being a bigot? You think your opinion is automatically superior.
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On August 23 2014 06:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:53 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though. If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth? I am not offering personal experiences at all. How am I a bigot? What does offering personal experiences have to do with being a bigot? You think your opinion is automatically superior.
The statement and question were meant to be unrelated, sorry.
I think your accusation of bigotry is unfounded.
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On August 23 2014 06:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:53 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though. If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth? I am not offering personal experiences at all. How am I a bigot? What does offering personal experiences have to do with being a bigot? You think your opinion is automatically superior.
Jonny, you are a beautiful and unique snowflake. Thank you for informing us that people who don't have to deal with police outside of traffic court (where they also have the benefit of a private lawyer) express largely ambivalent or favorable views towards the police they never have to deal with.
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On August 23 2014 07:05 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:53 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though. If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth? I am not offering personal experiences at all. How am I a bigot? What does offering personal experiences have to do with being a bigot? You think your opinion is automatically superior. Jonny, you are a beautiful and unique snowflake. Thank you for informing us that people who don't have to deal with police outside of traffic court (where they also have the benefit of a private lawyer) express largely ambivalent or favorable views towards the police they never have to deal with.
Thank you for deriving an opinion of me based on my skin color and class.
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On August 23 2014 07:03 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:53 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though. If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth? I am not offering personal experiences at all. How am I a bigot? What does offering personal experiences have to do with being a bigot? You think your opinion is automatically superior. The statement and question were meant to be unrelated, sorry. I think your accusation of bigotry is unfounded.
I think it's dead on. You're telling me that I can share an experience because I'm white and middle class. I doesn't even matter that I used to work with a lot of minorities. I'm white, so I need to shut up.
A few pages back it was "white Americans don't even want to talk about this!" Now it's - "shut up, you're opinion doesn't count."
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On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2014 00:00 Wolfstan wrote:Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.) Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see. We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities? I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community." Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. On average among the 75 cities, 49 percent of black police officers and 47 percent of Hispanic officers live within the city limits. But just 35 percent of white police officers do. The disparity is starkest in cities with largely black populations. In Detroit, for example, 57 percent of black police officers live in the city but just 8 percent of white ones do. Memphis, Tennessee; Baltimore; Birmingham, Alabama; and Jackson, Mississippi — also majority black — likewise have large racial gaps in where their police officers live. So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys.
Oh how I wish it were that easy ;P
Anyway the point is your personal observation did deserve a bit of ridicule. Unless your point was to show how there are at least two different worlds when it comes to the police community relationship. But of course no one is arguing that isn't the case.
So if your point was to show how isolated whites are from the reality of minorities and police you did a great job and welcome to reality.
However if the idea was to use your experience as a middle-class white guy to comment on/suggest police-community relationships within minority communities (in general) are similar than it just stands as an example of the complete disconnect.
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On August 23 2014 07:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 07:03 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:53 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:
[quote]
Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though. If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth? I am not offering personal experiences at all. How am I a bigot? What does offering personal experiences have to do with being a bigot? You think your opinion is automatically superior. The statement and question were meant to be unrelated, sorry. I think your accusation of bigotry is unfounded. I think it's dead on. You're telling me that I can share an experience because I'm white and middle class. I doesn't even matter that I used to work with a lot of minorities. I'm white, so I need to shut up. A few pages back it was "white Americans don't even want to talk about this!" Now it's - "shut up, you're opinion doesn't count."
The only thing people have told is that your personal experience as a white middle class guy isnt represantive for the black community. thats all. and thats perfectly fine. stop trolling
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You guys offer no real answer to what Jonny edit: and others have been saying anyways besides feel good answers like ...
"We need more blacks in law enforcement," "blacks dont feel like white cops are part of their social circles, they should do more."
No shit? When 96% of black voters voted for Obama in 08, there is only so much white guilt that can be used in a discussion.
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On August 23 2014 07:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:05 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:46 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 05:11 Wolfstan wrote:On August 23 2014 03:46 GreenHorizons wrote:[quote] Since you're Canadian I'll forgive you for your ignorance But no the cops literally are not part of the community. Someone posted information about how white people on average have upwards of 90%+ white network, combine that with the statistics on the population and where police live and the picture becomes clearer. Yes the police taking you home is exactly that white privilege you have a hard time seeing. [quote] So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too. I went on a school trip to the police station as a kid. Most schools have community officers too. DARE officers made frequent trips to schools as well. I don't know anyone irl that doesn't view the police as part of their community. Some cops or police chiefs have a reputation as being 'dicks', but no more so than any other group of people. Are you black and living in a bad neighborhood? Because that's the communities people are talking about. Not White Middle Class neighborhoods. No, but I used to work in Springfield and most people thought fine of the cops. Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Oh how I wish it were that easy ;P Anyway the point is your personal observation did deserve a bit of ridicule. Unless your point was to show how there are at least two different worlds when it comes to the police community relationship. But of course no one is arguing that isn't the case. So if your point was to show how isolated whites are from the reality of minorities and police you did a great job and welcome to reality. However if the idea was to use your experience as a middle-class white guy to comment on/suggest police-community relationships within minority communities (in general) are similar than it just stands as an example of the complete disconnect.
Here's the post I was replying to:
So are these terrible policies to implement? Live within the community you serve? Be transparent and accountable to the citizens? Have the kids and teens see police as members of the community and not just "the man" in a uniform? Are American schoolchildren taking field trips to the police station? Police officers playing hoops with kids between calls? Or is there some deep-seeded 'Murican reason that prevents community involvement that I'm not seeing? Racism can't be the only reason you guys don't see your cops as people too.
My reply was that, where I grew up, that kind of stuff DID happen. It was not a claim that it happened where I live, and therefore it happened everywhere. If you think that's the claim I was making, it's either because you can't read or you have some huge issue with bias.
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On August 23 2014 07:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 07:03 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:57 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:53 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:38 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2014 06:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On August 23 2014 06:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 23 2014 06:13 Crushinator wrote:
[quote]
Why did your job involve interviewing people about their views on the police? No, is that what you do for a living? You live in the US and interview people here on their views of the police? His point is how do you know how the average poor black person in the 20/30's feels about the police in Springfield. Just working there does not give you that knowledge. So what? My opinion and view doesn't count? If I'm not even allowed to express my own experiences and views than I should just stop posting here. Later guys. Don't be like that. It was perfectly called for to make fun of the very limited value of your very limited personal experience to this discussion. You are very much allowed to express it though. If my personal experiences don't count, what right do you have to speak on the topic? What possible value could come from bigots like you and Gorsameth? I am not offering personal experiences at all. How am I a bigot? What does offering personal experiences have to do with being a bigot? You think your opinion is automatically superior. The statement and question were meant to be unrelated, sorry. I think your accusation of bigotry is unfounded. I think it's dead on. You're telling me that I can share an experience because I'm white and middle class. I doesn't even matter that I used to work with a lot of minorities. I'm white, so I need to shut up. A few pages back it was "white Americans don't even want to talk about this!" Now it's - "shut up, you're opinion doesn't count."
There was some degree of genuine interest to my question, if for some reason you frequently talked about the police with people in the relevant communities, then your experience deserves no mockery. If you worked at a starbucks in the bad side of town, or whatever, it does atleast a little.
Also, my view isn't that you can't offer an opinion unless you have personal experience, only that some peoples personal experience are not very relevant. I would obviously shoot myself in the foot a bit otherwise.
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EPT
