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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
I don't think you even really thought about it. It was an unconscious assumption that led to your joke, and I'm just pointing that out. It's the conservatives and the liberals; the republicans and the democrats.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
You don't know me very well... Let's try not to blow up something that was obviously meant as a joke.
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Careful guys, stick to the topic on hand.
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This is the US Politics Megathread . . .
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WASHINGTON -- Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said in an interview published Thursday that he supports legislation ending the president’s program to defer deportation for undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children.
Speaking to Breitbart News during a medical mission in Guatemala, Paul lent his backing to House Republican efforts to address the crisis of unaccompanied minors crossing the southern U.S. border.
“I’m supportive of the House bill and I think it will go a long way to fixing the problem,” Paul said. “But like everything else, nothing good has happened because Sen. Reid has decided that he’s not going to allow any votes on any bills this year because he’s protecting his members who are vulnerable in the election -- he’s protecting them from any kind of votes. So I think there’s a very good chance the House bill could pass in the Senate, but it won’t ever pass if it doesn’t ever see the light of day.”
Source
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Come on people. Respect Godwin's law! As soon as someone use nazism in arguments the discussion is over.
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On August 22 2014 19:43 Velr wrote:
Johnny has arguments?
It seems Johnny got his gun at least and he is sticking to it.
Invokation of Godwin's law occurs when an argument about an unrelated subject get infused with an argument about nazis. The sarcasm is thick, but it is still out there.
Anyway, the problem in USA is that the discrimination still isn't ancient history. A generation or two down the line the problem will be seen as a ghetto-problem given the numbers given about integration into society (the numbers Sub40APM posted earlier indicates a very low level of integration between the different groups, which is a more fundamental problem that needs to get addressed. Funnily enough the racism card would also get much weaker with better interaction between the groups. As soon as an individual feels their arguments are beeing heard by the counterpart it is hard to claim us vs. them at a societal level.).
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On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists.
I wouldn't have mentioned it the first time, but since you now said the same utterly wrong thing twice.
The inequality between east and west germany had absolutely nothing to do with nazis. The problem was communists, which is a completely different thing. Thus, if you want to use that hyperbole, at least use it correctly and say "Clearly Eastern Germany is still run by communists" Nazis do not fit into that analogy in any way whatsoever, since under nazi reign, eastern germany was in no way economically behind western germany.
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On August 22 2014 22:31 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. I wouldn't have mentioned it the first time, but since you now said the same utterly wrong thing twice. The inequality between east and west germany had absolutely nothing to do with nazis. The problem was communists, which is a completely different thing. Thus, if you want to use that hyperbole, at least use it correctly and say "Clearly Eastern Germany is still run by communists" Nazis do not fit into that analogy in any way whatsoever, since under nazi reign, eastern germany was in no way economically behind western germany.
If you read again, that whooshing sound is the sarcasm that you missed entirely.
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I doubt Johnny is capable of sarcasm
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On August 22 2014 22:55 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 22:31 Simberto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. I wouldn't have mentioned it the first time, but since you now said the same utterly wrong thing twice. The inequality between east and west germany had absolutely nothing to do with nazis. The problem was communists, which is a completely different thing. Thus, if you want to use that hyperbole, at least use it correctly and say "Clearly Eastern Germany is still run by communists" Nazis do not fit into that analogy in any way whatsoever, since under nazi reign, eastern germany was in no way economically behind western germany. If you read again, that whooshing sound is the sarcasm that you missed entirely.
The fact that jonny is actively trying to be a moron in a poor imitation of comedy is probably lost in translation.
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On August 22 2014 22:55 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 22:31 Simberto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. I wouldn't have mentioned it the first time, but since you now said the same utterly wrong thing twice. The inequality between east and west germany had absolutely nothing to do with nazis. The problem was communists, which is a completely different thing. Thus, if you want to use that hyperbole, at least use it correctly and say "Clearly Eastern Germany is still run by communists" Nazis do not fit into that analogy in any way whatsoever, since under nazi reign, eastern germany was in no way economically behind western germany. If you read again, that whooshing sound is the sarcasm that you missed entirely.
It might be the whooshing sound of ignorance. They sound similar to the untrained ear.
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and this is news because....?
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Yeah, that was my main problem with that. A sarcastic remark would have been "So obviously eastern germany is still run by communists", thus mocking the opposing position. How much sense that would have made is a different question entirely.
However, the "so obviously germany is still run by nazis" statement just makes no sense at all, because in this case there are no similarities at all between the two situation, and thus the sarcastic analogy falls flat on its foot.
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Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.)
Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see.
We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities?
I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community."
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On August 23 2014 00:00 Wolfstan wrote:Are the police not considered part of the community down there? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, shop at the same stores, send their kids to the same schools? If not, maybe have rules saying you have to live within 10 miles of the precinct. (I know we have a problem with politicians able to run in districts they don't live in.) Are law enforcement is not seen as an enemy up here, but just as members of the community enforcing the laws. Maybe have police shoot hoops like Calgary police play street hockey? I don't think it would be terrible to do what happened when the police simply took me home when underage drinking instead of starting the process to juvenile court appearances. Maybe that is the elusive "white privilege" that I'm blind to see. We certainly have our problems with police using deadly force. Source But looking at the article and the comments below, race never came up once. More transparency, accountability and community involvement can result in astronomical approval ratings. Are these things happening in the US, if not, is this a model that can help reduce the systemic problem between the justice system and minority communities? I feel successful models are out there and solutions don't have to be reinvent the fucking wheel(like healthcare reform). I still find the term "black community" much more difficult to wrap my head around than "poor community."
when 99% of the cops policing a dominantly black community are white then no, they will not be part of the community.
And Americans cant use tried and tested methods using in the rest of the world because they are socialist methods, or American is different(in their eyes). take your pick.
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On August 22 2014 23:55 Gorsameth wrote:and this is news because....?
It says Nydaily(news)... Also ABC News is reporting this same story. I just cant wait for his senior pictures to make frontline news, check that, his baby pictures.
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On August 23 2014 00:13 Roswell wrote:It says Nydaily(news)... Also ABC News is reporting this same story. I just cant wait for his senior pictures to make frontline news, check that, his baby pictures.
again, wtf is it. some guys graduation video. you give 0 background, 0 reasons to click the link.
Im sorry i thought i was on teamliquid, not twitter.
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EPT
