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On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right??
Racism isn't 'simple'. At least most people are ashamed to overtly show simple racism outside of their personal circles. Racism, prejudice, and discrimination are complicated and extensive issues. You'd be surprised at how few on the other side of the argument even acknowledge they exist in any significant presence (sometimes the most racist people).
Even if 'simple racism' was the problem, laws alone wouldn't fix it. Come on now how long has cannabis been illegal (with insane indefensible penalties) and yet it's consumption is far from stopping.
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On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right??
East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced.
You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders are White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners are black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law or even the constitution says in the first place.
The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years.
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On August 22 2014 07:28 xDaunt wrote:
Well I've just spent an inordinate amount time looking for one study showing crime statistics by race with economic status controlled, and I haven't seen anyone else post one here. Anyone have one?
So your entire argument rests on an assumption which you repeat again and again and can provide no evidence for?
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On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'.
Cops are racist, and because cops are racist, they put more black people in jail. Since our jails are not rehabilitative, they tend to turn drug users into actual criminals by the time they leave. In addition you can add whatever cultural destruction of the family thing xDaunt was going on about. Then rinse and repeat in a constant feedback loop.
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On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years.
But why haven't east and west completely reached parity?
Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks.
We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I'm racist. There's no need to hide it or make snarky comments about it. It's better to come to terms with it and deal with it.
C'mon now.
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On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists.
"Why should we change, when nowhere else is utopian?" is an absolute gut-buster coming from a free marketist.
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On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists.
A common misconception is that people talking about racist policing and the like are accusing mass individuals of being 'evil racists'. That certainly isn't the case. Many of us are talking about a much more inadvertent racism. The type where the threat is amplified unreasonably simply because of the race of someone. Not because the cop is intentionally racist, but because they have been conditioned to believe the kind of propaganda that xDaunt is sourcing about how threatening blacks (and other minorities) are.
So when they say they felt their life was in danger and they did XYZ, they sincerely felt that fear whether it was reasonable or not.
White people are faaaaaaaar more likely to be victims of white perpetrators than they are of black ones but every party I've been to and something went missing it was no surprise who everyone presumed knew something...
It counters reality. Practically every statistic shows that if you're white and you are the victim of a crime it was more than likely a white criminal who did it. It's propaganda like xDaunts that gets peoples perceptions so twisted.
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On August 22 2014 09:41 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. "Why should we change, when nowhere else is utopian?" is an absolute gut-buster coming from a free marketist.
Germany is pushing half of europe to poverty - even its own citizens, so it's not really a good exemple. Europe, except maybe modern France, never had the US "racial" tensions / heterogeneity. So it's easy to give lessons - especially Germany who see immigration as a blessing considering their low natality. They even steal european youth, from spain or portugal.
On August 22 2014 09:41 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. A common misconception is that people talking about racist policing and the like are accusing mass individuals of being 'evil racists'. That certainly isn't the case. Many of us are talking about a much more inadvertent racism. The type where the threat is amplified unreasonably simply because of the race of someone. Not because the cop is intentionally racist, but because they have been conditioned to believe the kind of propaganda that xDaunt is sourcing about how threatening blacks (and other minorities) are. So when they say they felt their life was in danger and they did XYZ, they sincerely felt that fear whether it was reasonable or not. White people are faaaaaaaar more likely to be victims of white perpetrators than they are of black ones but every party I've been to and something went missing it was no surprise who everyone presumed knew something... It counters reality. Practically every statistic shows that if you're white and you are the victim of a crime it was more than likely a white criminal who did it. It's propaganda like xDaunts that gets peoples perceptions so twisted.
When you talk about the war on drug, it is not specifically targetted at black, but at poor black. After the civil right movement, upper and middle class black people had the opportunity to get out of black ghetto, letting only poor people in those neighborhood. The question is, in my opinion, broader than a simple black and white tension (I've seen a black guy saying that the black in the street had no moral and that it was all a problem of education). There is a typical "laborious class, dangerous class" problem underneath.
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On August 22 2014 09:55 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:41 Jormundr wrote:On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. "Why should we change, when nowhere else is utopian?" is an absolute gut-buster coming from a free marketist. Germany is pushing half of europe to poverty - even its own citizens, so it's not really a good exemple. Europe, except maybe modern France, never had the US "racial" tensions / heterogeneity.
Of course it did. It just resolved them by ethnic cleansing.
Thats why the south of France speaks French and not Occitan, why Sicilians speak Italian and not Arabic as do the Southern Spaniards, why there are few Jews or Slavic speakers in Germany and so forth. The rare places where large minorities coexist are those places where the state was too inept to conduct Europe's beloved domestic policy, the extermination of the other.
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On August 22 2014 10:01 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:55 WhiteDog wrote:On August 22 2014 09:41 Jormundr wrote:On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. "Why should we change, when nowhere else is utopian?" is an absolute gut-buster coming from a free marketist. Germany is pushing half of europe to poverty - even its own citizens, so it's not really a good exemple. Europe, except maybe modern France, never had the US "racial" tensions / heterogeneity. Of course it did. It just resolved them by ethnic cleansing. Thats why the south of France speaks French and not Occitan, why Sicilians speak Italian and not Arabic as do the Southern Spaniards, why there are few Jews or Slavic speakers in Germany and so forth. The rare places where large minorities coexist are those places where the state was too inept to conduct Europe's beloved domestic policy, the extermination of the other.
Ho yeah you're right if we do go that far.
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On August 22 2014 09:55 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:41 Jormundr wrote:On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. "Why should we change, when nowhere else is utopian?" is an absolute gut-buster coming from a free marketist. Germany is pushing half of europe to poverty - even its own citizens, so it's not really a good exemple. Europe, except maybe modern France, never had the US "racial" tensions / heterogeneity. So it's easy to give lessons - especially Germany who see immigration as a blessing considering their low natality. They even steal european youth, from spain or portugal.
And then we eat them!We can't stop they're just so delicious.
On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists.
Not that it would be a novelty that you start coming up with trashy Nazi comparisons as soon as you run out of meaningful things to say, but you're displaying the difference between America and Germany. People here don't have a problem acknowledging if something is really systematically wrong, we just have fucked up too hard in our recent history to be in denial again.
The racism in the US systemic. That doesn't mean that literally everybody is a racist, but it is still deeply enrooted in American society. The problem is that America by definition can never be truly wrong about anything, that's just what most people in the US seem to have agreed on. "separate but equal" comes to mind. If a real problem crops up you just give it a nice name and that's basically it.
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On August 22 2014 10:05 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:55 WhiteDog wrote:On August 22 2014 09:41 Jormundr wrote:On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. "Why should we change, when nowhere else is utopian?" is an absolute gut-buster coming from a free marketist. Germany is pushing half of europe to poverty - even its own citizens, so it's not really a good exemple. Europe, except maybe modern France, never had the US "racial" tensions / heterogeneity. So it's easy to give lessons - especially Germany who see immigration as a blessing considering their low natality. They even steal european youth, from spain or portugal. And then we eat them!We can't stop they're just so delicious. Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. Not that it would be a novelty that you start coming up with trashy Nazi comparisons as soon as you run out of meaningful things to say, but you're displaying the difference between America and Germany. People here don't have a problem acknowledging if something is really systematically wrong, we just have fucked up too hard in our recent history to be in denial again. The racism in the US systemic. That doesn't mean that literally everybody is a racist, but it is still deeply enrooted in American society. The problem is that America by definition can never be truly wrong about anything, that's just what most people in the US seem to have agreed on. "separate but equal" comes to mind.
What the hell are you even talking about? Americans think we're wrong all the time!
We've tried many programs over the past decades because we think it's a systemic problem. What do you think civil rights legislation and affirmative action were for? Why do you think Missouri collects race data on vehicle stops? For shits and giggles?
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On August 22 2014 10:15 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 10:05 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:55 WhiteDog wrote:On August 22 2014 09:41 Jormundr wrote:On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:
[quote]
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture?
6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. "Why should we change, when nowhere else is utopian?" is an absolute gut-buster coming from a free marketist. Germany is pushing half of europe to poverty - even its own citizens, so it's not really a good exemple. Europe, except maybe modern France, never had the US "racial" tensions / heterogeneity. So it's easy to give lessons - especially Germany who see immigration as a blessing considering their low natality. They even steal european youth, from spain or portugal. And then we eat them!We can't stop they're just so delicious. On August 22 2014 09:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:23 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:11 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On August 22 2014 09:04 Nyxisto wrote:On August 22 2014 09:01 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't see how it's necessarily racist to examine the impact culture has in these matters in the here and now. You don't disregard the past either or the real structures that underpin racism in the modern era.
If you look at it in a vacuum, no. If you take the American history into context, yes. Why not get rid of the blatant institutionalized racism first, and if the problems aren't fixed then we can take a look at everybody's culture? 6 out of 10 cocaine/crack users are white. 8/10 people in American prisons for crack or cocaine abuse are black. We don't need to have an intricate discussion about black culture to fix it, what needs to be done is that the police stops locking up innocent black people and starts locking up criminal white people. Why does the discrepancy exist? It's not so simple as 'cops are racist'. Because white people more often get away with crimes than black people, because 1. they don't get stopped as often,and on average their sentences are about 20% lower if they go to prison, or sometimes they don't even go to prison at all. I can't come up with any other explanation, even if I wanted. So yes, polemically it boils down to the cops/the system is racist. No, actually do some research on it. Don't just pop in here and claim simple racism. We've had repeated laws put in place to deal with racism. If it was that simple, done deal by now. Why are East Germans still at a disadvantage compared to West Germans? Because Nazis still run the show, right?? East Germans have caught up with West Germans in most metrics two decades after the country was reunited. It's the US that is dealing with a town wide civil unrest at the moment, not Germany. East Germans generally seem to be quite happy.The butthurt Whataboutism is completely misplaced. You can pass as many laws as you want, what really counts is how reality looks, and if the majority of cocaine offenders is White while the majority of cocaine offense related prisoners is black it proves that people don't really seem to care about what the law says in the first place. The civil rights act should have prevented this kind of thing decades ago. What you don't need is more laws, what you need to do is actually practise the ones that already exist for 50 years. But why haven't east and west completely reached parity? Clearly Germany is still run by Nazis. There's no other explanation - it's right there - you're all Nazis. You just deny it to hide the truth. What really counts is how it looks. We should also talk about how horribly racist the Dutch are too. Each year they all run around in blackface because they're all horrible racists. Not that it would be a novelty that you start coming up with trashy Nazi comparisons as soon as you run out of meaningful things to say, but you're displaying the difference between America and Germany. People here don't have a problem acknowledging if something is really systematically wrong, we just have fucked up too hard in our recent history to be in denial again. The racism in the US systemic. That doesn't mean that literally everybody is a racist, but it is still deeply enrooted in American society. The problem is that America by definition can never be truly wrong about anything, that's just what most people in the US seem to have agreed on. "separate but equal" comes to mind. What the hell are you even talking about? Americans think we're wrong all the time! We've tried many programs over the past decades because we think it's a systemic problem. What do you think civil rights legislation and affirmative action were for? Why do you think Missouri collects race data on vehicle stops? For shits and giggles?
Don't listen to this guy. Americans are always right!
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Considering half the country thinks one way and the other half of the country thinks another, it's hard not to be right! We got our bases covered.
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Yeah. Only two ways to think about things.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Of all the things to poke at... Really?
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You want to talk about how to fix things and you are limited by the tiny box you are in.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I can't even believe you are taking what we've been saying seriously. The limits of expression over the internet strikes again.
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I think you needed to use two snide exclamation points instead of one. Really sell it.
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EPT
