US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1242

On August 22 2014 03:58 Nyxisto wrote:
Hit and miss? It was miss and miss. I have yet to see one scholarly or journalistic source that hasn't come to the conclusion that the war on drugs was an utter failure. Sure, some states are starting to acknowledge that now, but a lot of them, mostly the predominantly conservatives, don't seem inclined to change at all. Given the damage these policies have caused I don't think it's acceptable for people to wait five generations until the system is fixed. What does "it has been actively discussed" even mean? How does it help teenagers that are getting locked up for decades right now that the topic is being actively discussed?

Like this guy

On August 22 2014 04:31 JonnyBNoHo wrote:

The war on drugs is PART of the crime issue, but it is not the whole issue (why would you think otherwise?). Crime is at something like a 30 year low, I think that I can say there are some successes in that.


Source

On August 22 2014 04:41 GreenHorizons wrote:



Can't help but notice all of the stats are higher than the early 1960's except murder (just barely).

A federal judge in Florida has ruled the state's gay marriage ban unconstitutional, according to the Associated Press.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Robert L. Hinkle is the latest of several-dozen rulings for same-sex marriage by federal courts across the country since the Supreme Court's landmark ruling advancing gay rights in 2013. On the federal level, gay marriage has since enjoyed an undefeated streak.

Hinkle put a hold on his ruling, meaning gay couples in Florida will not be able to receive marriage licenses just yet.

The ruling puts Republican Gov. Rick Scott in a predicament as he runs for reelection. As gay marriage becomes more popular in the state he has obscured his position on the issue and dodged questions by reporters. His administration has a say in whether to appeal the decision and defend the state's ban.

Charlie Crist, the Democratic nominee for governor in Florida, who supports marriage equality, quickly praised the ruling.

On August 22 2014 05:23 aksfjh wrote:

Probably an effect of actual data gathering as opposed to asking how many robberies Sheriff Bill thought he knew about in the past year.

On August 22 2014 02:13 Liquid`Drone wrote:


There's only one way this is explained by any type of non-systematic explanation pertaining to the individuals involved, and that is by stating that africans are genetically inferior to asians (in regards to attaining success as defined by 'America'). That actually is a narrative I am refusing to accept even if it were proven true because the acceptance of those ideas have historically been breeding grounds for the some of the worst atrocities through human history.

Basically, I can accept that 'black culture' (as a collective term used to describe disenfranchised youth in inner cities including whites and hispanics as well just in much smaller number) has let's just say, a focus on short term pleasure rather than long term gain - and in this regard, it is diametrically opposed to the culture brought by first generation asian immigrants. I just can't accept that the individuals who are part of this culture are given personal blame for this. You can't just 'choose' to distance yourself from the ideals of your community, it doesn't work like that. Basically for personal choice to be the (frankly, even a) factor in explaining large systematic differences between ethnic groups, you have to state that the groups differ genetically, and then you'd still be blaming individuals for losing a birth lottery.

But yes, if 'black america' suddenly decided to collectively start spending the same hours and energy and dedication that 'asian america' does on activities that are likely to 'build long term character', then african americans would end up being over-represented in more positive rather than negative statistics. There's no doubt about this and it would be intellectually dishonest for me to suggest otherwise.

But you can't just like, tell them to collectively wisen up and expect that to happen. Groups of people act in ways that are counter-productive all the time - but in my experience, people also always act according to their own rationality. (this is very different from are always rational.) By this I mean that, maybe for the 17 year old african american, it just makes way more sense for him to get a little high and laid a bunch than for him to spend the following 6 years working to get a degree. Firstly, the importance of education was never pushed onto him as a child. He didn't have parents who read books or even newspapers. With this background, you cannot simply expect him, as a 17 year old, to achieve the same academic results as a 17 year old asian whose childhood included a significant portion of ''work as hard as you can in school because your academic success is the most important aspect for determining your future happiness' lectures. In this scenario, our african american would probably have to work twice as hard from that point on to make up for inequalities stemming from a period of his life he cannot possibly be expected to have control over. Likewise, butts and drugs are far more available to him, and can provide happiness that detracts from what is essentially no real prospect for the future.

I essentially think it's incredibly unfair to just say to a group of people ; well, sure it's tougher for you guys, but that just means you have to work harder, because this drive and motivation to work hard aren't factors determined by their own choices. I, as a liberal by american definition, can certainly notice that there are significant cultural differences between asian, white and black communities. But I don't want to put the blame on this to the people belonging to the communities, in my opinion (and I cannot see how I can be convinced otherwise), group mentalities cannot be explained by individual choices.

On August 22 2014 05:46 Souma wrote:
Did you intentionally skip over the part where people debunked your ludicrous assumption that blacks and Asians experienced the same hurdles?

On August 22 2014 05:59 xDaunt wrote:

I don't need to respond to every post, and as far as I am concerned, nothing's been debunked. Bookwyrm's arguments basically confirm my position that the current state of the black community is more the result of their own internal problems than any kind of existential racism that still exists. Funnytoss raised his point the last time that we went down this road, and though I found it interesting the first time, it wasn't backed up with anything, so I'm not inclined to rehash the same points again.

On August 22 2014 06:01 ticklishmusic wrote:


Did you skip the part where it was mentioned that not all Asians are the same?

On August 22 2014 05:59 xDaunt wrote:

I don't need to respond to every post, and as far as I am concerned, nothing's been debunked. Bookwyrm's arguments basically confirm my position that the current state of the black community is more the result of their own internal problems than any kind of existential racism that still exists. Funnytoss raised his point the last time that we went down this road, and though I found it interesting the first time, it wasn't backed up with anything, so I'm not inclined to rehash the same points again.

On August 22 2014 06:02 xDaunt wrote:

It's irrelevant. You can look at any particular heritage/nationality, and they're all doing better than blacks.

On August 22 2014 06:02 xDaunt wrote:

It's irrelevant. You can look at any particular heritage/nationality, and they're all doing better than blacks.

On August 22 2014 06:02 xDaunt wrote:

It's irrelevant. You can look at any particular heritage/nationality, and they're all doing better than blacks.

On August 22 2014 05:59 xDaunt wrote:

I don't need to respond to every post, and as far as I am concerned, nothing's been debunked. Bookwyrm's arguments basically confirm my position that the current state of the black community is more the result of their own internal problems than any kind of existential racism that still exists. Funnytoss raised his point the last time that we went down this road, and though I found it interesting the first time, it wasn't backed up with anything, so I'm not inclined to rehash the same points again.

On August 22 2014 06:08 Souma wrote:


Really, so you listen to the arguments you want to (Bookwyrm's) and ignore everyone else's?

On August 22 2014 06:16 YoureFired wrote:


sooooo is the inequality that Black people have faced (starting off with the enslavement of Africans and ending with the mass incarceration of people of color) not relevant here? by stating its a product of "Black culture" you're being both ignorant and racist.

Gee I wonder why. Black people must genetically not want to do well in this world!

Do you not believe that environment can play a huge part in cultivating failure or something?

I can tell you, as an Asian-American who grew up in a low-income, ghetto area, that a great number of other Asians who grew up in my community fell victim to the exact same things you criticize African-Americans for. It's not just a coincidence that a significant amount of people make the same choices that ultimately lead to them failing.

On August 22 2014 06:17 xDaunt wrote:


Basically, yes. Whenever I raise an incendiary point, I receive too many responses for me to address. Most responses are shit anyway, so I'd rather not waste my time. I will, however, take the time to respond to well-thought-out posts or other posters whom I know will give me an interesting conversation. We all have our reputations around here.



Of course there's a correlation between socio-economic status and crime. However, you can control for that factor, and once you do, it becomes fairly obvious which groups are more problematic than others.

On August 22 2014 06:30 radiatoren wrote:

I think you are relying too much on statistics and too little on reasoning. If crime is higher in an area, crime is higher in an area. If an area is predominantly inhabited by poor people, the area is predominantly inhabited by poor people, if an areas is predominantly inhabited by people with african descendants, the area is predominantly inhabited by people with african descendants. As soon as you start correlating african descendance, powerty and crime you are completely neglecting community and any other third party influences. That is very unfortunate since the descendancy should be completely irrelevant to your observation, while cultural issues are a real thing and while there are some common traits in "black culture" the tool is not accounting for the specific local differences that would cause us to avoid the stupid black vs white dichotomy. I would say geography has a reasonable chance of being better correlated with the issues rather than skincolour.

On August 22 2014 06:36 xDaunt wrote:

I don't know what "issues" that you're describing, but studies in the US show that race -- or more specifically, the presence of blacks and hispanics -- is the best indicator of crime.

On August 22 2014 06:36 xDaunt wrote:

I don't know what "issues" that you're describing, but studies in the US show that race -- or more specifically, the presence of blacks and hispanics -- is the best indicator of crime.