US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1241

On August 21 2014 11:21 xDaunt wrote:
Personally, I love seeing liberals struggle to explain why Asians have succeeded where Blacks haven't. Their histories are very similar -- a better fit than Indians.

On August 22 2014 02:13 Liquid`Drone wrote:


There's only one way this is not explained by any type of systematic explanation not pertaining to the individuals involved, and that is by stating that africans are genetically inferior to asians (in regards to attaining success as defined by 'America'). That actually is a narrative I am refusing to accept even if it were proven true because the acceptance of those ideas have historically been breeding grounds for the some of the worst atrocities through human history.

Basically, I can accept that 'black culture' (as a collective term used to describe disenfranchised youth in inner cities including whites and hispanics as well just in much smaller number) has let's just say, a focus on short term pleasure rather than long term gain - and in this regard, it is diametrically opposed to the culture brought by first generation asian immigrants. I just can't accept that the individuals who are part of this culture are given personal blame for this. You can't just 'choose' to distance yourself from the ideals of your community, it doesn't work like that. Basically for personal choice to be the (frankly, even a) factor in explaining large systematic differences between ethnic groups, you have to state that the groups differ genetically, and then you'd still be blaming individuals for losing a birth lottery.

But yes, if 'black america' suddenly decided to collectively start spending the same hours and energy and dedication that 'asian america' does on activities that are likely to 'build long term character', then african americans would end up being over-represented in more positive rather than negative statistics. There's no doubt about this and it would be intellectually dishonest for me to suggest otherwise. But you can't just like, tell them to collectively wisen up and expect that to happen. Groups of people act in ways that are counter-productive all the time - but in my experience, people also always act according to their own rationality. (this is very different from are always rational.) By this I mean that, maybe for the 17 year old african american, it just makes way more sense for him to get a little high and laid a bunch than for him to spend the following 6 years working to get a degree. Firstly, the importance of education was never pushed onto him as a child. He didn't have parents who read books or even newspapers. With this background, you cannot simply expect him, as a 17 year old, to achieve the same academic results as a 17 year old asian whose childhood included a significant portion of ''work as hard as you can in school because your academic success is the most important aspect for determining your future happiness' lectures. In this scenario, our african american would probably have to work twice as hard from that point on to make up for inequalities stemming from a period of his life he cannot possibly be expected to have control over. Likewise, butts and drugs are far more available to him, and can provide happiness that detracts from what is essentially no real prospect for the future.

I essentially think it's incredibly unfair to just say to a group of people ; well, sure it's tougher for you guys, but that just means you have to work harder, because this drive and motivation to work hard aren't factors determined by their own choices. I, as a liberal by american definition, can certainly notice that there are significant cultural differences between asian, white and black communities. But I don't want to put the blame on this to the people belonging to the communities, in my opinion (and I cannot see how I can be convinced otherwise), group mentalities cannot be explained by individual choices.

On August 22 2014 01:48 Leporello wrote:
America is a police state -- we have the largest incarceration percentage in the world, so there is no arguing the fact that we are the world's biggest police state -- and the only reason a police state becomes a police state is monetary. We have created a plethora of incentives to expand police force and to expand prison construction, so... naturally these things have to be used.

This incident is a symptom of a much larger problem.

How anyone can defend the police on this, or a variety of other issues, I'm not sure. It boggles my mind. This country has continuously become a meaner, crueler place than it was. You can't blame it on one institution or one person.

I'm really trying to move out of here, to be quite honest. I recently had a Scandinavian vacation to go to a friend's wedding, and aside from the more blatant cultural differences, the subtle difference in attitude and civility is becoming less subtle. It's starting to feel very real to me that America is currently just the asshole of the world, and I'm tired of being a part of it.

On August 22 2014 02:13 Liquid`Drone wrote:

Basically, I can accept that 'black culture' (as a collective term used to describe disenfranchised youth in inner cities including whites and hispanics as well just in much smaller number) has let's just say, a focus on short term pleasure rather than long term gain - and in this regard, it is diametrically opposed to the culture brought by first generation asian immigrants.

On August 22 2014 02:20 Gorsameth wrote:
Sadly there is no easy way to fix this. Without the massive outcry by the majority of the population nothing will change and because the majority doesn't seem to know that its possible for police to be different that outcry is not there.

On August 21 2014 16:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
Well here's the video from the second cop who shot someone in the St Louis.

I can't argue with their legal right to use their weapons. Clearly better ways they could of handled it though.

The last 2 shots are definitely questionable and should warrant further inquiry.

Based on how many bullets they fired (9+) and how they behaved afterwords (tossing around and handcuffing the dying man instead of even attempting to save his life, 12 cops+ and no ems [I could spot anyway], etc), killing him certainly seems like it might of been predetermined.

Blows my mind so many people look at this and see a 'job well done'

On August 22 2014 02:49 WhiteDog wrote:

That's an excuse, 20 second is enough. It's just their modus operandi to kill people.

On August 22 2014 03:06 JonnyBNoHo wrote:

I really hope you're being sarcastic...

On August 22 2014 03:08 Gorsameth wrote:

Ill say it again, you dont know any better then this. In any European country that man would be alive today.

On August 22 2014 03:23 Simberto wrote:
Basically, it's this weird american thing.

You have shitloads of guns for everyone, and because of that everyone needs to have shitloads of guns to be save against other people with guns. So obviously the police must always expect everyone to shoot them, and has to be heavily militarized and shoot people first if there is the slightest possibility that they could be dangerous. This leads to the police becoming a bunch of thugs that shoots first and asks questions later, and everyone else being afraid and/or hating the police.

Add to that ridiculous drug laws that make people want to shoot at people who would arrest them for having 5grams of marihuana, because it really doesn't matter at that point, you are going into jail for 20 years anyways. Police that assumes that every black guy in a bad neighbourhood is a criminal, and criminals should be shot. For profit prisons that lobby for exactly the kind of laws that gets more people into prison and in whose best interest it is if the people they incarcerate stay criminals even after being released. Higher education that is so expensive that you have to go into deep debt and/or simply can't afford it at all if you don't have rich parents, leading to no real path to a better future being available for young non-rich people, an utterly ridiculous healthcare system that is more expensive for the individual, provides worth healthcare than a european system, and has a tendency to drive people into debt and/or just having them be unable to pay their medical bills and thus not getting the treatment they need, and you have an utterly fucked up system.

And yet for some reason a lot of Americans claim that that is completely normal, and in no way should anyone even attempt to fix those problems that are glaringly obvious to outsiders who know that there is a much better way. Guns are needed because criminals have guns and second amendment and whatever. You can't have good healthcare because FREEDOM. A good public education system is impossible because if the state does anything it is bad. For profit prisons are totally a reasonable concept and save us money right now, and who gives a fuck about criminals anyways. Drugs are bad mkay.

On August 21 2014 23:38 Sermokala wrote:
Everything in that video is exactly how their training tells them to do it. The guy wasn't answering questions and was approching the police officers with a knife how else would that have been handeled. You can't even use a tazer in that situation beacuse of the deadly weapon.

The handcuffs are there to make sure that the suspect doesn't get back up and grab a gun. They are not going to search a body that they just shot or else they'd contaminate the crime scene. The other choice is for them to search a dead body while its still bleeding on the ground which I would think is worse.

They put 9+ hollowpoint rounds into someone, that person isn't alive and the only way someone could help them is if they could replace organs quickly and remove large amounts of metal shards from the body. EMS isn't going to treat it like an emergency when its clear from every party that the victim died before they hit the ground.

Please stop trying to demonize the police trying to see things that aren't there when there are a dozen things that are already wrong with the situation.

On August 22 2014 04:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:
considering how crime overall has decreased (citing jonny here, but I see no reason not to believe him) and considering some responses made trying to combat the rising crime have been failures, then some must have been successes?

I mean fighting crime isn't just about active policing, it involves increased focus on education especially in inner city communities and creating youth activity centers etc etc. I'm not trying to argue that I think the american government at neither a state or federal level have done enough in these regards but it's not like every single american politician is some evil shill bought by corporate fatcats.. not everything done by the american government over the past 20 years has been bad or malicious.