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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24156 Posts
August 04 2014 07:35 GMT
#24021
If you're trying to show widespread difference between how blacks vs whites are treated by cops, use statistics. They exist, and they show that there's a problem there.

What do you suppose the problem is?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-04 14:04:06
August 04 2014 14:03 GMT
#24022
On August 04 2014 16:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
If you're trying to show widespread difference between how blacks vs whites are treated by cops, use statistics. They exist, and they show that there's a problem there.

What do you suppose the problem is?

Such vague laws that apply to almost anybody that allow large amounts of discretion in enforcement at the officer level, along with a court system that enables them by slapping relatively gigantic penalties for those infractions.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 04 2014 16:02 GMT
#24023
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24156 Posts
August 04 2014 18:00 GMT
#24024
On August 05 2014 01:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_F5GxCwizc



Advertising and News have been getting more and more laughable. Anchorman 2 had some surprising insight into the issue.

I think it's about time we update our advertising laws to account for the more clever ways people are being deceived now.

Rx commercials are something else. I've thought of just doing the voice over in a tone that was more appropriate for what they were actually saying more than once myself.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 04 2014 18:09 GMT
#24025
BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Montana's U.S. House candidates claim to offer "all-of-the-above" solutions to the nation's energy problems— a familiar mantra among politicians keen to give equal attention to fossil fuels and renewables such as wind and solar.

Yet stark differences in the details of their proposals reveal a wide divide. Republican Ryan Zinke is a staunch fossil fuels advocate who questions humanity's role in climate change. Democrat John Lewis touts the potential for renewables that he says could transform the state's energy sector over the long-term, and says the effects of climate change are evident.

The candidate's dueling visions could play a significant role in November as voters in energy-rich Montana seek distinctions in the contest for the state's sole House seat, left open when first-term Republican Rep. Steve Daines decided to run for U.S. Senate. Oil and gas are in abundance in eastern Montana, which includes part of the booming Bakken oil region and some of the largest coal reserves in the world.

Zinke said those fuels offer the best hope for the U.S. to break its reliance on foreign sources. His plan seeks to streamline permitting processes to speed up oil and gas drilling on lands managed by the federal Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service.

"The opportunity for energy independence in the short term-remains primarily with fossil fuels, primarily driven by the shale play," he said, referring to the shale oil found in the Bakken.

Lewis puts his emphasis on non-traditional energy sources including wind, hydro and solar power and plant-based fuels such as diesel derived from the crop camelina, which is a member of the mustard family.

The long-time aide to former U.S. Sen. Max Baucus said he also supports fossil fuels, although the energy plan Lewis unveiled last month largely skipped over oil and natural gas. Those industries are doing well on their own, Lewis said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 04 2014 21:59 GMT
#24026
Mississippi state Sen. Chris McDaniel (R) and his legal team formally announced on Monday his legal challenge to the runoff results of the Republican primary for U.S. Senate, saying he won the nomination by 25,000 votes on June 24 and asked the party to award him the nomination without holding another election.

McDaniel attorney Mitch Tyner (pictured right), with McDaniel standing next to him, announced the McDaniel campaign would file a formal challenge to the election results with the state executive committee of the Republican Party.

"They asked us to put up or shut up. Here we are. Here we are with the evidence," McDaniel said.

The announcement came about six weeks after the runoff election, which Sen. Thad Cochran (R-MS) won. Since the election McDaniel and his supporters have been poring over poll books to find examples of illegal crossover voting. McDaniel has argued that he is actually the true Republican nominee for Senate and that Cochran and the incumbent senator's supporters only won through "race-baiting" and courting Democratic votes.

"Through the acts that they took, the actions that they took, they moved over 40,000 Democrats into the Republican primary. And in so doing, mistakes were made," McDaniel said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11940 Posts
August 04 2014 22:12 GMT
#24027
How can someone voting for something be illegal?

And if it is, how could you ever prove that it happened if you have secret ballots?
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
August 04 2014 22:27 GMT
#24028
On August 05 2014 07:12 Simberto wrote:
How can someone voting for something be illegal?

And if it is, how could you ever prove that it happened if you have secret ballots?

Its not a full election. Its a vote amongst just the Republicans to see who they'll run in the actual election. It wouldnt be right if Democrats had a say in what Republican ended up getting the party's nomination.

Though you're right, it's gotta be difficult to prove it happened.
Who called in the fleet?
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
August 04 2014 23:02 GMT
#24029
On August 05 2014 07:12 Simberto wrote:
How can someone voting for something be illegal?


If I vote in Germany's parlimentary elections, I'm breaking the law. As an American, I have no right to help choose who Germany's leader should be. In theory, a political party should be able to limit its primary pool in the same way. It's got distinct advantages to doing how other democracies do it, which is generally by having the party pick a candidate. But it does promote populism/extremism, so honestly I'm kinda in favor of the whole open primary thing. I love that black Democrats picked off a Tea Party candidate, and would be happy to see the trick around the country. If this were a regular thing, you might actually force politicians to pay attention to what the public thinks, rather than what the outside wingnuts believe.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 04 2014 23:07 GMT
#24030
Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL) on Monday did not back away from his accusation that Democrats are waging a "war on whites" during an interview with AL.com.

On Monday morning, Brooks told radio host Laura Ingraham that Democrats have made Republicans' push for stronger border security about race.

"This is a part of the war on whites that’s being launched by the Democratic Party. And the way in which they’re launching this war is by claiming that whites hate everybody else," he said.

Ingraham told him that his comment was "a little out there."

During an interview with AL.com on Monday afternoon, Brooks defended and elaborated on his comment.

"In effect, what the Democrats are doing with their dividing America by race is they are waging a war on whites and I find that repugnant," he told AL.com.

"They're attacking, by the Democrats' opening soliciting votes of people based on skin color, they in turn are attacking whites based on skin color and that's wrong. Nobody should be attacked based on skin color," he continued.

Brooks then accused Democrats of injecting race into every issue they can, not just immigration issues.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22487 Posts
August 04 2014 23:14 GMT
#24031
On August 05 2014 08:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL) on Monday did not back away from his accusation that Democrats are waging a "war on whites" during an interview with AL.com.

On Monday morning, Brooks told radio host Laura Ingraham that Democrats have made Republicans' push for stronger border security about race.

"This is a part of the war on whites that’s being launched by the Democratic Party. And the way in which they’re launching this war is by claiming that whites hate everybody else," he said.

Ingraham told him that his comment was "a little out there."

During an interview with AL.com on Monday afternoon, Brooks defended and elaborated on his comment.

"In effect, what the Democrats are doing with their dividing America by race is they are waging a war on whites and I find that repugnant," he told AL.com.

"They're attacking, by the Democrats' opening soliciting votes of people based on skin color, they in turn are attacking whites based on skin color and that's wrong. Nobody should be attacked based on skin color," he continued.

Brooks then accused Democrats of injecting race into every issue they can, not just immigration issues.


Source

"War on women won them an election. lets do the same to them" lol. Im sure all those white democrats are waging a war on themselves...
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Chocolate
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2350 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-04 23:21:34
August 04 2014 23:21 GMT
#24032
To be fair I think there is a sliver of truth in that argument; historically, minorities (these days not so much asians and jews) have almost always been considered opposition by the white majority. As the demographics of the country begin to shift towards non-white people, the democratic party (which already controls a substantial portion of minority voters) can begin to shift its policies away from those that would tend to benefit whites more than other races.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24156 Posts
August 04 2014 23:23 GMT
#24033
On August 05 2014 08:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL) on Monday did not back away from his accusation that Democrats are waging a "war on whites" during an interview with AL.com.

On Monday morning, Brooks told radio host Laura Ingraham that Democrats have made Republicans' push for stronger border security about race.

"This is a part of the war on whites that’s being launched by the Democratic Party. And the way in which they’re launching this war is by claiming that whites hate everybody else," he said.

Ingraham told him that his comment was "a little out there."

During an interview with AL.com on Monday afternoon, Brooks defended and elaborated on his comment.

"In effect, what the Democrats are doing with their dividing America by race is they are waging a war on whites and I find that repugnant," he told AL.com.

"They're attacking, by the Democrats' opening soliciting votes of people based on skin color, they in turn are attacking whites based on skin color and that's wrong. Nobody should be attacked based on skin color," he continued.

Brooks then accused Democrats of injecting race into every issue they can, not just immigration issues.


Source




Going to be a population of people in America soon that will be completely oblivious to what the word 'War' even means (short a few %) after all of this rhetorical napalming.

When Ingraham says your comment is "a little out there" you know you've walked yourself out on quite a narrow limb.



"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
August 05 2014 01:34 GMT
#24034
On August 05 2014 08:02 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2014 07:12 Simberto wrote:
How can someone voting for something be illegal?


If I vote in Germany's parlimentary elections, I'm breaking the law. As an American, I have no right to help choose who Germany's leader should be. In theory, a political party should be able to limit its primary pool in the same way. It's got distinct advantages to doing how other democracies do it, which is generally by having the party pick a candidate. But it does promote populism/extremism, so honestly I'm kinda in favor of the whole open primary thing. I love that black Democrats picked off a Tea Party candidate, and would be happy to see the trick around the country. If this were a regular thing, you might actually force politicians to pay attention to what the public thinks, rather than what the outside wingnuts believe.

That just promotes populism even more. If everyone can decide both candidates for an office, only populist ideals will ever even have a chance.
Who called in the fleet?
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
August 05 2014 02:23 GMT
#24035
On August 05 2014 07:27 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2014 07:12 Simberto wrote:
How can someone voting for something be illegal?

And if it is, how could you ever prove that it happened if you have secret ballots?

Its not a full election. Its a vote amongst just the Republicans to see who they'll run in the actual election. It wouldnt be right if Democrats had a say in what Republican ended up getting the party's nomination.

Though you're right, it's gotta be difficult to prove it happened.

Mississippi has an implicit closed primary system, but it's never been tested in court, IIRC. They'd have to prove that those people that voted:
A) Voted for Cochran
B) Didn't change their mind that they wanted to vote Republican in the weeks between Democrat and Republican primaries.

McDaniel seems rather desperate though, since he's demanding to become the defacto nominee. Probably low on cash and doesn't think he'd win an outright court battle in Mississippi.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
August 05 2014 23:37 GMT
#24036
Is income inequality holding back the United States economy? A new report argues that it is, that an unequal distribution in incomes is making it harder for the nation to recover from the recession and achieve the kind of growth that was commonplace in decades past.

The report is interesting not because it offers some novel analytical approach or crunches previously unknown data. Rather, it has to do with who produced it, which says a lot about how the discussion over inequality is evolving.

Economists at Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services are the authors of the straightforwardly titled “How Increasing Inequality is Dampening U.S. Economic Growth, and Possible Ways to Change the Tide.” The fact that S.&P., an apolitical organization that aims to produce reliable research for bond investors and others, is raising alarms about the risks that emerge from income inequality is a small but important sign of how a debate that has been largely confined to the academic world and left-of-center political circles is becoming more mainstream.

“Our review of the data, as well as a wealth of research on this matter, leads us to conclude that the current level of income inequality in the U.S. is dampening G.D.P. growth,” the S.&P. researchers write, “at a time when the world’s biggest economy is struggling to recover from the Great Recession and the government is in need of funds to support an aging population.”

To understand why this matters, you have to know a little bit about the many tribes within the world of economics.

There are the academic economists who study the forces shaping the modern economy. Their work is rigorous but often obscure. Some of them end up in important policy jobs (See: Bernanke, B.) or write books for a mass audience (Piketty, T.), but many labor in the halls of academia for decades writing carefully vetted articles for academic journals that are rigorous as can be but are read by, to a first approximation, no one.

Then there are the economists in what can broadly be called the business forecasting community. They wear nicer suits than the academics, and are better at offering a glib, confident analysis of the latest jobs numbers delivered on CNBC or in front of a room full of executives who are their clients. They work for ratings firms like S.&P., forecasting firms like Macroeconomic Advisers and the economics research departments of all the big banks.

The key difference, though, is that rather than trying to produce cutting-edge theory, they are trying to do the practical work of explaining to clients — companies trying to forecast future demand, investors trying to allocate assets — how the economy is likely to evolve. They’re not really driven by ideology, or by models that are rigorous enough in their theoretical underpinnings to pass academic peer review. Rather, their success or failure hinges on whether they’re successful at giving those clients an accurate picture of where the economy is heading.
Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story

In that sense, the new S.&P. report is a sign of how worries that income inequality is a factor behind subpar economic growth over the last five years (and really the last 15 years) is going from an idiosyncratic argument made mainly by left-of center economists to something that even the tribe of business forecasters needs to wrestle with.


A New Report Argues Inequality Is Causing Slower Growth. Here’s Why It Matters.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-06 00:05:05
August 06 2014 00:04 GMT
#24037
On August 06 2014 08:37 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
Is income inequality holding back the United States economy? A new report argues that it is, that an unequal distribution in incomes is making it harder for the nation to recover from the recession and achieve the kind of growth that was commonplace in decades past.

The report is interesting not because it offers some novel analytical approach or crunches previously unknown data. Rather, it has to do with who produced it, which says a lot about how the discussion over inequality is evolving.

Economists at Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services are the authors of the straightforwardly titled “How Increasing Inequality is Dampening U.S. Economic Growth, and Possible Ways to Change the Tide.” The fact that S.&P., an apolitical organization that aims to produce reliable research for bond investors and others, is raising alarms about the risks that emerge from income inequality is a small but important sign of how a debate that has been largely confined to the academic world and left-of-center political circles is becoming more mainstream.

“Our review of the data, as well as a wealth of research on this matter, leads us to conclude that the current level of income inequality in the U.S. is dampening G.D.P. growth,” the S.&P. researchers write, “at a time when the world’s biggest economy is struggling to recover from the Great Recession and the government is in need of funds to support an aging population.”

To understand why this matters, you have to know a little bit about the many tribes within the world of economics.

There are the academic economists who study the forces shaping the modern economy. Their work is rigorous but often obscure. Some of them end up in important policy jobs (See: Bernanke, B.) or write books for a mass audience (Piketty, T.), but many labor in the halls of academia for decades writing carefully vetted articles for academic journals that are rigorous as can be but are read by, to a first approximation, no one.

Then there are the economists in what can broadly be called the business forecasting community. They wear nicer suits than the academics, and are better at offering a glib, confident analysis of the latest jobs numbers delivered on CNBC or in front of a room full of executives who are their clients. They work for ratings firms like S.&P., forecasting firms like Macroeconomic Advisers and the economics research departments of all the big banks.

The key difference, though, is that rather than trying to produce cutting-edge theory, they are trying to do the practical work of explaining to clients — companies trying to forecast future demand, investors trying to allocate assets — how the economy is likely to evolve. They’re not really driven by ideology, or by models that are rigorous enough in their theoretical underpinnings to pass academic peer review. Rather, their success or failure hinges on whether they’re successful at giving those clients an accurate picture of where the economy is heading.
Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story

In that sense, the new S.&P. report is a sign of how worries that income inequality is a factor behind subpar economic growth over the last five years (and really the last 15 years) is going from an idiosyncratic argument made mainly by left-of center economists to something that even the tribe of business forecasters needs to wrestle with.


A New Report Argues Inequality Is Causing Slower Growth. Here’s Why It Matters.

One point that Piketty talks about and that led to a pretty pessimistic debate in France between Emmanuel Todd and Piketty (Piketty asking him if the best solution was to just go and live in the US) is that in history the only country that took drastic measures against inequalities is the US (with a high and "confiscatory" marginal taxation rate), while European countries never really faced inequalities head on (we, on the other side, tried many mixted capitalist things, like making a lot of big firm public).
So all in all, the US might be the only country that is willing to face the problematic behind inequalities head on - a testament on the vigor of its democracy - altho for our generation, the US always had the image of a country that would favor them and justify them with the charismatic ideologies of "merit" or "gift".
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-06 00:14:56
August 06 2014 00:10 GMT
#24038
I had no idea that a consumer economy suffers when a majority of consumers have reduced disposable income and are not seeing any growth in income.

I'm glad there are highly trained and educated economists to tell me such things.

Now we just need to wait 15 years for them to realize the root cause of this damaging income inequality.

+ Show Spoiler +

Give a guy who works at McDonald's $1000 and it will immediately go back into the economy. Give a billionaire $1000 and he won't even notice.

Fix the tax code.


farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-06 00:15:15
August 06 2014 00:14 GMT
#24039
The problem, SnipedSoul, is that there are plenty of highly trained and educated economists who are/were saying that inequality is of middling concern relative to other economic indicators.

That's very interesting, WhiteDog; all the more reason for me to pony up and finally read through Piketty's book. I'd certainly like to think that we have the necessary framework for change here in the US, but, as you said, our generation doesn't have much reason for faith.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-06 00:16:59
August 06 2014 00:16 GMT
#24040
I'm not anything approaching an economist and income inequality being detrimental to economic growth is the most obvious thing in the world to me. Especially when you consider that the US economy is something like 70% consumer driven.

What the heck was the thinking behind it being of minor concern?
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