EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 1201
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28894 Posts
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On August 04 2014 06:56 KwarK wrote: For some reason I went to the comments on that youtube video i think he's confused. any proper muslim field negro would agree that obama is indeed a spineless house negro, as the us, under obama, have been slaughtering them en masse. democrats are in washington d.c. only because of the negro vote. they are of course political chumps and traitors to their race. it is not clear, however, that voting republican would improve the situation, like he seems to imply. | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On August 04 2014 07:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: ya actually I semi-retract my post, I understand that like, excessive cursing can and should be punishable. I'd rather have someone punch me once than stand next to my face yelling that I'm a useless terrible fucking cunthole for 10 minutes, and I didn't actually watch the video so I dunno how much cursing went on. I think it's not just the words, it's the fact that cursing at authority figures indicates a lack of respect and an unwillingness to cooperate. It's a little different from cursing out someone in a service position, especially for something they can't necessarily control like processing time or cost. That's not to say it's any easier to take, but it is a slightly different situation. It appears that the arrest is made wrongfully and the cops go a bit overboard, but without the context of what he did, it's hard to know why the cops put so much effort into putting him in submission and making an arrest. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24354 Posts
On August 04 2014 07:12 JonnyBNoHo wrote: It's not a good idea to curse out a cop. It's also normal to have laws regarding 'disorderly conduct'. The video doesn't show whether he was cussing AT the cops or not. And based on the police's own description it seems clear he wasn't cursing AT the cops he was just cursing. Obviously they can arrest people for that as they threatened the man (not talking to the officer or being aggressive in any manner) that if he kept cursing he was going to jail too. Cops can arrest people for any reason they want, it doesn't make it legal or right though. Yeah, but this wasn't disorderly conduct according to the law, unless you count that the police are likely to react violently to people expressing their rights... Of course it will cost the man thousands of dollars and months to clear his name while the cops probably have already done the same type of thing to someone else since. But, for the sake of clarity, let's just forget all about the man who got arrested and focus on the man threatened with imprisonment for recounting the events using the language that was used (and protected by the first amendment). Are cops so sacrosanct that even describing why someone was being arrested is now a reason to be arrested. If you want to see what cursing AT an officer looks like you might remember all the way back to the good ole' Bundy ranch... At one point in the video someone actually assaults an 'officer' (K-9), doesn't appear they left in the back of a squad car either.... Yeah clearly that neighborhood of black folks was much more aggressive than this crowd. But sure, it was the generic non-aggressive cursing that threatened the original guys freedom's nothing else... Like are people really that oblivious or is it just old fashion trolling...? Could people imagine if that predominately black neighborhood responded like these people...? For instance, could you imagine if the guy who was threatened to be taken to jail just for describing the incident to the victims father had been screaming at the cop giving him a double bird?! Certainly wouldn't have been cheering the police leaving without arresting him... But the people claiming to protect these Bundy ranch folk's first amendment have nothing to say about incidents like the previous one... I'm sure these people's perceptions of 'the negro' have nothing to do with it though.... | ||
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TommyP
United States6231 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22598 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:18 TommyP wrote: I can say whatever the fuck I want to whoever the fuck I want. That doesn't make it right and people probably won't like you, but fuck anyone who says different. Sure you can say whatever you want. Doesn't mean you wont suffer the consequence for those words tho ^^ | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24354 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:25 Gorsameth wrote: Sure you can say whatever you want. Doesn't mean you wont suffer the consequence for those words tho ^^ In the United States the consequences vary depending on race and police department as is evidenced by the previous videos and many others you can find. EDIT: and/or neighborhood as farv points out. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:18 TommyP wrote: I can say whatever the fuck I want to whoever the fuck I want. That doesn't make it right and people probably won't like you, but fuck anyone who says different. Where'd you grow up, if you don't mind me asking? In some of my old neighborhoods, that shit just wouldn't fly. Having the ability to say whatever you want to whomever you want is one thing; actually doing so is the stuff of children and folks belonging to at-risk populations. | ||
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TommyP
United States6231 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:41 farvacola wrote: Where'd you grow up, if you don't mind me asking? In some of my old neighborhoods, that shit just wouldn't fly. Having the ability to say whatever you want to whomever you want is one thing; actually doing so is the stuff of children and folks belonging to at-risk populations. Indiana I completely agree though, I wasn't saying I personally go around cursing at people for no reason, but I believe doing so is not a reason to be arrested. Getting punched, cursed back at, etc.. is what should happen lol and obviously people would dislike you for lack of respect. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:13 GreenHorizons wrote: The video doesn't show whether he was cussing AT the cops or not. And based on the police's own description it seems clear he wasn't cursing AT the cops he was just cursing. + Show Spoiler + Obviously they can arrest people for that as they threatened the man (not talking to the officer or being aggressive in any manner) that if he kept cursing he was going to jail too. Cops can arrest people for any reason they want, it doesn't make it legal or right though. Yeah, but this wasn't disorderly conduct according to the law, unless you count that the police are likely to react violently to people expressing their rights... Of course it will cost the man thousands of dollars and months to clear his name while the cops probably have already done the same type of thing to someone else since. But, for the sake of clarity, let's just forget all about the man who got arrested and focus on the man threatened with imprisonment for recounting the events using the language that was used (and protected by the first amendment). Are cops so sacrosanct that even describing why someone was being arrested is now a reason to be arrested. If you want to see what cursing AT an officer looks like you might remember all the way back to the good ole' Bundy ranch... At one point in the video someone actually assaults an 'officer' (K-9), doesn't appear they left in the back of a squad car either.... http://youtu.be/LhJ6H9vlEDA?t=4m47s Yeah clearly that neighborhood of black folks was much more aggressive than this crowd. But sure, it was the generic non-aggressive cursing that threatened the original guys freedom's nothing else... Like are people really that oblivious or is it just old fashion trolling...? Could people imagine if that predominately black neighborhood responded like these people...? For instance, could you imagine if the guy who was threatened to be taken to jail just for describing the incident to the victims father had been screaming at the cop giving him a double bird?! Certainly wouldn't have been cheering the police leaving without arresting him... But the people claiming to protect these Bundy ranch folk's first amendment have nothing to say about incidents like the previous one... I'm sure these people's perceptions of 'the negro' have nothing to do with it though.... No one in the video seemed to deny that they guy was swearing or that the officers asked him to stop first. Really, we'd need to see the whole event and have some context to it to know if the officers acted fairly or not. Until then we usually give the officers the benefit of the doubt. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24354 Posts
On August 04 2014 11:21 JonnyBNoHo wrote: No one in the video seemed to deny that they guy was swearing or that the officers asked him to stop first. Really, we'd need to see the whole event and have some context to it to know if the officers acted fairly or not. Until then we usually give the officers the benefit of the doubt. What does any of that have to do with the officer threatening to take the guy recording to jail simply for saying the word fuck in a recounting of the original event? | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 04 2014 12:30 GreenHorizons wrote: What does any of that have to do with the officer threatening to take the guy recording to jail simply for saying the word fuck in a recounting of the original event? Nothing, as I wasn't addressing that. They told the guy with the camera a few things - to back up from the arrest, to stop swearing and they informed the camera man of their names. The guy with the camera did do what the cops asked him to do, and did not get arrested. What's the problem? Perceptions of 1st amendment rights? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24354 Posts
There's no law that says simply "cussin' in the street" is illegal...(there's kind of an important one that says otherwise actually) Compare that to the Bundy protesters screaming at, cursing at, and even striking an officer, and how the police handled that.... If you don't see the problem, you are part of it. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On August 04 2014 12:51 GreenHorizons wrote: "Stop cussin' in the street or your going too" There's no law that says simply "cussin' in the street" is illegal...(there's kind of an important one that says otherwise actually) Compare that to the Bundy protesters screaming at, cursing at, and even striking an officer, and how the police handled that.... If you don't see the problem, you are part of it. You are a bit too disorderly in the thread. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24354 Posts
Don't taze me bro! I mean seriously, people blow my mind with this stuff. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 04 2014 12:51 GreenHorizons wrote: "Stop cussin' in the street or your going too" There's no law that says simply "cussin' in the street" is illegal...(there's kind of an important one that says otherwise actually) Compare that to the Bundy protesters screaming at, cursing at, and even striking an officer, and how the police handled that.... If you don't see the problem, you are part of it. Hate to break it to you, but language is regulated in a variety of contexts. Moreover, the guy wasn't arrested for just saying the word fuck. We also don't know the full context of the arrest that was made, we only really get the brother's take on it. You really can't compare the bundy protest either, different context in a different time and place. There's a reason you shouldn't use anecdotes as evidence. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24354 Posts
On August 04 2014 13:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Hate to break it to you, but language is regulated in a variety of contexts. Moreover, the guy wasn't arrested for just saying the word fuck. We also don't know the full context of the arrest that was made, we only really get the brother's take on it. You really can't compare the bundy protest either, different context in a different time and place. There's a reason you shouldn't use anecdotes as evidence. Care to explain what context you are imagining that makes the threat to the person recounting the story legitimate? Or what about the Bundy ranch protesters context that makes the different responses to cursing (among other actual crimes) reasonable? Or were you just going to say vague things like 'language is regulated in a variety of contexts' without even feigning a context that would make the threat in question legitimate? | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 04 2014 13:44 GreenHorizons wrote: Care to explain what context you are imagining that makes the threat to the person recounting the story legitimate? Or what about the Bundy ranch protesters context that makes the different responses to cursing (among other actual crimes) reasonable? Or were you just going to say vague things like 'language is regulated in a variety of contexts' without even feigning a context that would make the threat in question legitimate? The officer gave the guy with the camera an order. You're supposed to follow it. For example, here's Reese Witherspoon getting arrested for stepping out of her car when an officer told her not to: ^ basically you don't do that kind of crap or you get arrested. At least she had been drinking so she can blame some of her stupidity on that. As to the Bundy Ranch protest, people probably could have been arrested there, but the officers chose not to. You'd have to ask them why, my guess would be that they didn't want to escalate the situation. It was also a political protest, and not just some dude being a dick. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24354 Posts
On August 04 2014 14:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote: The officer gave the guy with the camera an order. You're supposed to follow it. For example, here's Reese Witherspoon getting arrested for stepping out of her car when an officer told her not to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkZsxSgwRI4 ^ basically you don't do that kind of crap or you get arrested. At least she had been drinking so she can blame some of her stupidity on that. As to the Bundy Ranch protest, people probably could have been arrested there, but the officers chose not to. You'd have to ask them why, my guess would be that they didn't want to escalate the situation. It was also a political protest, and not just some dude being a dick. I honestly don't know how to get people like you to see what you are doing. So, I'll admit, I give up on trying to get you to see it. You can't see/won't see/endorse (I can't know why) the pattern (or it's consequences) of 'probably could of (but didn't)' and 'probably shouldn't have (but did)' that is painfully obvious to those who are most affected (and people who are willing to see). You can just see it your way and me mine, but I have no desire to continue with your rhetorical gymnastics. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 04 2014 14:33 GreenHorizons wrote: I honestly don't know how to get people like you to see what you are doing. So, I'll admit, I give up on trying to get you to see it. You can't see/won't see/endorse (I can't know why) the pattern (or it's consequences) of 'probably could of (but didn't)' and 'probably shouldn't have (but did)' that is painfully obvious to those who are most affected (and people who are willing to see). You can just see it your way and me mine, but I have no desire to continue with your rhetorical gymnastics. If you're trying to show widespread difference between how blacks vs whites are treated by cops, use statistics. They exist, and they show that there's a problem there. An economist I follow made a post on blacks in jail just the other day. You can read his post here. But the videos you posted are just stupid. A guy was arrested for disorderly conduct. Big deal, he was probably giving the officers are hard time and got arrested for it. Same deal as Reese Witherspoon. | ||
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