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On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 07:10 coverpunch wrote:The Obama administration continues its hand-wringing on Syria and Iraq as Attorney General Holder speaks on it: HOLDER: “In some ways, it’s more frightening than anything I think I’ve seen as attorney general. 9/11 was something that kind of came out of the blue. This is a situation that we can see developing and the potential that I see coming out, the negative potential I see coming out of the facts in Syria and Iraq now are quite concerning.”
THOMAS: “Among the concerns: intelligence that bomb makers from Yemen — those responsible for the 2009 underwear bomb plot — are now in Syria joining forces with the thousands of foreign fighters there.”
HOLDER: “[I]t’s a deadly combination, where you have people who have the technical know-how along with the people who have this kind of fervor to give their lives in support of a cause that is directed at the United States and directed at its allies. And it’s something that gives us really extreme, extreme concern.” Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again.
What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table.
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On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 07:10 coverpunch wrote:The Obama administration continues its hand-wringing on Syria and Iraq as Attorney General Holder speaks on it: HOLDER: “In some ways, it’s more frightening than anything I think I’ve seen as attorney general. 9/11 was something that kind of came out of the blue. This is a situation that we can see developing and the potential that I see coming out, the negative potential I see coming out of the facts in Syria and Iraq now are quite concerning.”
THOMAS: “Among the concerns: intelligence that bomb makers from Yemen — those responsible for the 2009 underwear bomb plot — are now in Syria joining forces with the thousands of foreign fighters there.”
HOLDER: “[I]t’s a deadly combination, where you have people who have the technical know-how along with the people who have this kind of fervor to give their lives in support of a cause that is directed at the United States and directed at its allies. And it’s something that gives us really extreme, extreme concern.” Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table.
No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics?
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On July 14 2014 08:33 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 08:29 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2014 07:48 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 07:45 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 07:10 coverpunch wrote:The Obama administration continues its hand-wringing on Syria and Iraq as Attorney General Holder speaks on it: HOLDER: “In some ways, it’s more frightening than anything I think I’ve seen as attorney general. 9/11 was something that kind of came out of the blue. This is a situation that we can see developing and the potential that I see coming out, the negative potential I see coming out of the facts in Syria and Iraq now are quite concerning.”
THOMAS: “Among the concerns: intelligence that bomb makers from Yemen — those responsible for the 2009 underwear bomb plot — are now in Syria joining forces with the thousands of foreign fighters there.”
HOLDER: “[I]t’s a deadly combination, where you have people who have the technical know-how along with the people who have this kind of fervor to give their lives in support of a cause that is directed at the United States and directed at its allies. And it’s something that gives us really extreme, extreme concern.” Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Helping Iran is a stupid idea. With the current regime in place, they're little better than ISIS. Ideologically Iran is as different from ISIS as it's going to get in the region. Yes, ISIS and Iran are enemies, but that doesn't mean that Iran is our friend. Quite the opposite. I'm perfectly content to let them slaughter each other for the time being rather than strengthen Iran. What is it with Americas irrational Iran hate? At least the country would have a reasonable chance of bringing some stability to the region. Last time I checked Western nation-building is not doing so well over there.
What is irrational about wishing ill to a geopolitical enemy? Bottom line is that stability in the region isn't really an American problem anymore, which is one of the reasons why Obama can't be bothered to get involved. There is zero reason for the US to expend significant resources to back Iran, who is not our friend.
Why the fuck would you be okay with ISIS and Iran "slaughtering each other"? Not only is that completely inhuman but it will also inevitably result in a rise of terrorism which in return is going to effect the West negatively. Still salty because they kicked the Shah's out?
Of course it's inhumane to be okay with ISIS and Iran slaughtering each other. I'm not pretending otherwise. It doesn't change the fact that it is in America's interest for them to do so. There is no good guy who is going to emerge from the shitstorm over there. So yes, I am perfectly content to let all of the rabid Islamist assholes around the world call for jihad in Iraq and Syria. They'll be nice and preoccupied there as opposed to targeting the West.
And if they ever do successfully form their own country, we'll know exactly whom to carpet bomb if the time comes. Call me old fashioned, but I still believe that war -- particularly when you're talking about cultural conflict -- is all about killing lots of people. Success is a function of killing enough people such that the other side is completely subjugated.
As I have pointed out repeatedly in this thread and others, I do not believe that the West is willing to do what is necessary to "beat" radical Muslims. For that reason, we should just stay on the sidelines as much as possible. And I'm not seeing any alternatives to military action, either. Radical Muslims don't seem to be going away as a result of cultural diaspora.
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On July 14 2014 08:55 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 07:10 coverpunch wrote:The Obama administration continues its hand-wringing on Syria and Iraq as Attorney General Holder speaks on it: HOLDER: “In some ways, it’s more frightening than anything I think I’ve seen as attorney general. 9/11 was something that kind of came out of the blue. This is a situation that we can see developing and the potential that I see coming out, the negative potential I see coming out of the facts in Syria and Iraq now are quite concerning.”
THOMAS: “Among the concerns: intelligence that bomb makers from Yemen — those responsible for the 2009 underwear bomb plot — are now in Syria joining forces with the thousands of foreign fighters there.”
HOLDER: “[I]t’s a deadly combination, where you have people who have the technical know-how along with the people who have this kind of fervor to give their lives in support of a cause that is directed at the United States and directed at its allies. And it’s something that gives us really extreme, extreme concern.” Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table. No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics? If Europeans think bringing peace to the Middle East is ezpz, they're welcome to try. Until then the troll-lol-lol 'Murica criticism can suck it.
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On July 14 2014 08:59 xDaunt wrote:
What is irrational about wishing ill to a geopolitical enemy? Bottom line is that stability in the region isn't really an American problem anymore, which is one of the reasons why Obama can't be bothered to get involved.
The irrational part is that the US is antagonizing Iran instead of trying to establish some kind of reasonable relationship with the country? With Rouhani there's a big chance to get the country on a reasonable course. If the US really hates jidahist terrorism, they should probably stop supporting exactly these rebel groups all over the middle-east and not utilize them every time they think they can overthrow some dictator.
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On July 14 2014 09:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 08:55 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 07:10 coverpunch wrote:The Obama administration continues its hand-wringing on Syria and Iraq as Attorney General Holder speaks on it: HOLDER: “In some ways, it’s more frightening than anything I think I’ve seen as attorney general. 9/11 was something that kind of came out of the blue. This is a situation that we can see developing and the potential that I see coming out, the negative potential I see coming out of the facts in Syria and Iraq now are quite concerning.”
THOMAS: “Among the concerns: intelligence that bomb makers from Yemen — those responsible for the 2009 underwear bomb plot — are now in Syria joining forces with the thousands of foreign fighters there.”
HOLDER: “[I]t’s a deadly combination, where you have people who have the technical know-how along with the people who have this kind of fervor to give their lives in support of a cause that is directed at the United States and directed at its allies. And it’s something that gives us really extreme, extreme concern.” Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table. No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics? If Europeans think bringing peace to the Middle East is ezpz, they're welcome to try. Until then the troll-lol-lol 'Murica criticism can suck it.
I don't think you quite understand the point being made.
The US has spend a lot of time and effort "bringing peace to the Middle East". The result is a middle east that is less peaceful than ever before. So maybe the solution is less getting involved in other peoples affairs and fucking them up even more.
Basically, the problem is the american arrogance that you so wonderfully show. Not everyones problem is yours, and especially in the case of the middle east, you invest a lot of money, effort and lives, and afterwards the result is worse than it was before you started. And your reaction to people pointing this out is "Do it better yourselves". We have been doing that. Doing nothing is exceedingly superior to what you have been doing. Thus, i am quite happy that european nations do not fall into the same trap that you keep constantly walking back in every time you just got out based on that arrogance that tells you that obviously there is nothing that you can not fix because you are american.
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On July 14 2014 09:36 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 08:59 xDaunt wrote:
What is irrational about wishing ill to a geopolitical enemy? Bottom line is that stability in the region isn't really an American problem anymore, which is one of the reasons why Obama can't be bothered to get involved. The irrational part is that the US is antagonizing Iran instead of trying to establish some kind of reasonable relationship with the country? With Rouhani there's a big chance to get the country on a reasonable course. If the US really hates jidahist terrorism, they should probably stop supporting exactly these rebel groups all over the middle-east and not utilize them every time they think they can overthrow some dictator.
When it comes to Rouhani, we are only talking about "improvement" in relative terms. Though he clearly is better than Ahmadinejad, I'm not at all convinced that he is "acceptable." Moreover, he isn't the real power in Iran anyway, so it is a bit of a moot point.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
that they chose a softer guy is already signal for a change of attitude. plus, we kinda need to leverage their gas against russia
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On July 14 2014 10:28 xDaunt wrote:
When it comes to Rouhani, we are only talking about "improvement" in relative terms. Though he clearly is better than Ahmadinejad, I'm not at all convinced that he is "acceptable."
Well if 'King Abdullah ibn Abdilazīz' , who happens to run an absolutist radical Islamic monarchy is good enough for Western standards I'm seriously confused as to where people are drawing the line
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We can leverage our own gas against russia as in two years time or so we will be able to ship over large quantities of the stuff to replace any shortages that the bear can threaten. Pakistan will need to be held in the sphere as to squat down on their trillion or so worth of natural resources.
If anyone has been a winner of the war on terror its been pakistan. There will be a special but needed relationship between us as we are forced to balance india and china against each other but Pakistan has seen real economic and infrastructural growth in the past decade.
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On July 14 2014 09:43 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 09:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:55 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 07:10 coverpunch wrote:The Obama administration continues its hand-wringing on Syria and Iraq as Attorney General Holder speaks on it: HOLDER: “In some ways, it’s more frightening than anything I think I’ve seen as attorney general. 9/11 was something that kind of came out of the blue. This is a situation that we can see developing and the potential that I see coming out, the negative potential I see coming out of the facts in Syria and Iraq now are quite concerning.”
THOMAS: “Among the concerns: intelligence that bomb makers from Yemen — those responsible for the 2009 underwear bomb plot — are now in Syria joining forces with the thousands of foreign fighters there.”
HOLDER: “[I]t’s a deadly combination, where you have people who have the technical know-how along with the people who have this kind of fervor to give their lives in support of a cause that is directed at the United States and directed at its allies. And it’s something that gives us really extreme, extreme concern.” Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table. No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics? If Europeans think bringing peace to the Middle East is ezpz, they're welcome to try. Until then the troll-lol-lol 'Murica criticism can suck it. I don't think you quite understand the point being made. The US has spend a lot of time and effort "bringing peace to the Middle East". The result is a middle east that is less peaceful than ever before. So maybe the solution is less getting involved in other peoples affairs and fucking them up even more. Basically, the problem is the american arrogance that you so wonderfully show. Not everyones problem is yours, and especially in the case of the middle east, you invest a lot of money, effort and lives, and afterwards the result is worse than it was before you started. And your reaction to people pointing this out is "Do it better yourselves". We have been doing that. Doing nothing is exceedingly superior to what you have been doing. Thus, i am quite happy that european nations do not fall into the same trap that you keep constantly walking back in every time you just got out based on that arrogance that tells you that obviously there is nothing that you can not fix because you are american.
We've been involved in the middle east well before the second gulf war, sometimes times at the behest of the international community. We can't just yell "smell ya later!" and expect peace. Shit, Syria isn't a peaceful place these days and since we pulled out of Iraq, ISIS moved in.
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On July 14 2014 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 09:43 Simberto wrote:On July 14 2014 09:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:55 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 07:10 coverpunch wrote:The Obama administration continues its hand-wringing on Syria and Iraq as Attorney General Holder speaks on it: HOLDER: “In some ways, it’s more frightening than anything I think I’ve seen as attorney general. 9/11 was something that kind of came out of the blue. This is a situation that we can see developing and the potential that I see coming out, the negative potential I see coming out of the facts in Syria and Iraq now are quite concerning.”
THOMAS: “Among the concerns: intelligence that bomb makers from Yemen — those responsible for the 2009 underwear bomb plot — are now in Syria joining forces with the thousands of foreign fighters there.”
HOLDER: “[I]t’s a deadly combination, where you have people who have the technical know-how along with the people who have this kind of fervor to give their lives in support of a cause that is directed at the United States and directed at its allies. And it’s something that gives us really extreme, extreme concern.” Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table. No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics? If Europeans think bringing peace to the Middle East is ezpz, they're welcome to try. Until then the troll-lol-lol 'Murica criticism can suck it. I don't think you quite understand the point being made. The US has spend a lot of time and effort "bringing peace to the Middle East". The result is a middle east that is less peaceful than ever before. So maybe the solution is less getting involved in other peoples affairs and fucking them up even more. Basically, the problem is the american arrogance that you so wonderfully show. Not everyones problem is yours, and especially in the case of the middle east, you invest a lot of money, effort and lives, and afterwards the result is worse than it was before you started. And your reaction to people pointing this out is "Do it better yourselves". We have been doing that. Doing nothing is exceedingly superior to what you have been doing. Thus, i am quite happy that european nations do not fall into the same trap that you keep constantly walking back in every time you just got out based on that arrogance that tells you that obviously there is nothing that you can not fix because you are american. We've been involved in the middle east well before the second gulf war, sometimes times at the behest of the international community. We can't just yell "smell ya later!" and expect peace. Shit, Syria isn't a peaceful place these days and since we pulled out of Iraq, ISIS moved in.
If the Us would have gone in with the best intentions and would have failed people would not be so bitter about it. What makes people angry is the fact that the US has deliberately caused chaos in the middle-east.
You went from supporting the Mujahideen (which literally means 'people doing jihah' btw) to supporting Saddam Hussein, to fighting Saddam Hussein,then to fighting islamic terrorists, and now you've gone full circle and have been supporting Islamic rebels again who have now finally created some kind of weird fucked up caliphate that is so extremist that even Al Qaeda doesn't want to have anything to do with them.
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White House transparent? Yes says new press secretary
Press groups, prominent journalists and administration critics have all accused President Barack Obama of failing to live up to his commitment to have the "most transparent administration in history." To some, that pledge is now a punch line. But the commitment endures, newly appointed White House press secretary Josh Earnest said in an interview on CNN's "Reliable Sources" on Sunday.
Earnest, who was a deputy press secretary before his promotion in June, cited "a number of steps that we've taken to give people greater insight into what's happening at the White House."
There is built-in tension in the relationship between the president and the press, Earnest said: "If there's ever a day when the White House press corps sits back and says, 'You know, we're getting all the information that we need from the White House Press Office,' then everybody in the White House press corps would not be doing their jobs, right?"
Earnest said he had seen the letter to Obama signed by more than 40 news media organizations, including the Society of Professional Journalists and National Press Foundation, urging the President and his federal agencies to be more transparent -- to "stop the spin and let the sunshine in."
But when asked whether the groups had legitimate concerns, he referred back to the omnipresent tension between the two sides.
As the new press secretary, Earnest said he has a responsibility to "try to help the President live up to his commitment to be the most transparent president in history."
In spite of aggressive prosecutions of whistleblowers and other actions, he said that he thought the administration had lived up to it so far -- "absolutely" -- and pointed to the quarterly release of White House visitor records and reporters' access to presidential fundraisers at private homes.
Source
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On July 14 2014 11:09 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 09:43 Simberto wrote:On July 14 2014 09:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:55 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table. No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics? If Europeans think bringing peace to the Middle East is ezpz, they're welcome to try. Until then the troll-lol-lol 'Murica criticism can suck it. I don't think you quite understand the point being made. The US has spend a lot of time and effort "bringing peace to the Middle East". The result is a middle east that is less peaceful than ever before. So maybe the solution is less getting involved in other peoples affairs and fucking them up even more. Basically, the problem is the american arrogance that you so wonderfully show. Not everyones problem is yours, and especially in the case of the middle east, you invest a lot of money, effort and lives, and afterwards the result is worse than it was before you started. And your reaction to people pointing this out is "Do it better yourselves". We have been doing that. Doing nothing is exceedingly superior to what you have been doing. Thus, i am quite happy that european nations do not fall into the same trap that you keep constantly walking back in every time you just got out based on that arrogance that tells you that obviously there is nothing that you can not fix because you are american. We've been involved in the middle east well before the second gulf war, sometimes times at the behest of the international community. We can't just yell "smell ya later!" and expect peace. Shit, Syria isn't a peaceful place these days and since we pulled out of Iraq, ISIS moved in. If the Us would have gone in with the best intentions and would have failed people would not be so bitter about it. What makes people angry is the fact that the US has deliberately caused chaos in the middle-east. You went from supporting the Mujahideen (which literally means 'people doing jihah' btw) to supporting Saddam Hussein, to fighting Saddam Hussein,then to fighting islamic terrorists, and now you've gone full circle and have been supporting Islamic rebels again who have now finally created some kind of weird fucked up caliphate that is so extremist that even Al Qaeda doesn't want to have anything to do with them.
Yup we did all that just to fuck with people. Zero European involvement in any of that too.
And you think we're supporting ISIS?
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On July 14 2014 11:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 11:09 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 09:43 Simberto wrote:On July 14 2014 09:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:55 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful.
Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table. No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics? If Europeans think bringing peace to the Middle East is ezpz, they're welcome to try. Until then the troll-lol-lol 'Murica criticism can suck it. I don't think you quite understand the point being made. The US has spend a lot of time and effort "bringing peace to the Middle East". The result is a middle east that is less peaceful than ever before. So maybe the solution is less getting involved in other peoples affairs and fucking them up even more. Basically, the problem is the american arrogance that you so wonderfully show. Not everyones problem is yours, and especially in the case of the middle east, you invest a lot of money, effort and lives, and afterwards the result is worse than it was before you started. And your reaction to people pointing this out is "Do it better yourselves". We have been doing that. Doing nothing is exceedingly superior to what you have been doing. Thus, i am quite happy that european nations do not fall into the same trap that you keep constantly walking back in every time you just got out based on that arrogance that tells you that obviously there is nothing that you can not fix because you are american. We've been involved in the middle east well before the second gulf war, sometimes times at the behest of the international community. We can't just yell "smell ya later!" and expect peace. Shit, Syria isn't a peaceful place these days and since we pulled out of Iraq, ISIS moved in. If the Us would have gone in with the best intentions and would have failed people would not be so bitter about it. What makes people angry is the fact that the US has deliberately caused chaos in the middle-east. You went from supporting the Mujahideen (which literally means 'people doing jihah' btw) to supporting Saddam Hussein, to fighting Saddam Hussein,then to fighting islamic terrorists, and now you've gone full circle and have been supporting Islamic rebels again who have now finally created some kind of weird fucked up caliphate that is so extremist that even Al Qaeda doesn't want to have anything to do with them. Yup we did all that just to fuck with people. Zero European involvement in any of that too. And you think we're supporting ISIS?
No, I think the primary motivation was/is to fuck with Russia via proxy wars. The natives can then proceed to live in what's left of their countries.
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On July 14 2014 11:43 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 11:39 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 11:09 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 09:43 Simberto wrote:On July 14 2014 09:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:55 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table. No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics? If Europeans think bringing peace to the Middle East is ezpz, they're welcome to try. Until then the troll-lol-lol 'Murica criticism can suck it. I don't think you quite understand the point being made. The US has spend a lot of time and effort "bringing peace to the Middle East". The result is a middle east that is less peaceful than ever before. So maybe the solution is less getting involved in other peoples affairs and fucking them up even more. Basically, the problem is the american arrogance that you so wonderfully show. Not everyones problem is yours, and especially in the case of the middle east, you invest a lot of money, effort and lives, and afterwards the result is worse than it was before you started. And your reaction to people pointing this out is "Do it better yourselves". We have been doing that. Doing nothing is exceedingly superior to what you have been doing. Thus, i am quite happy that european nations do not fall into the same trap that you keep constantly walking back in every time you just got out based on that arrogance that tells you that obviously there is nothing that you can not fix because you are american. We've been involved in the middle east well before the second gulf war, sometimes times at the behest of the international community. We can't just yell "smell ya later!" and expect peace. Shit, Syria isn't a peaceful place these days and since we pulled out of Iraq, ISIS moved in. If the Us would have gone in with the best intentions and would have failed people would not be so bitter about it. What makes people angry is the fact that the US has deliberately caused chaos in the middle-east. You went from supporting the Mujahideen (which literally means 'people doing jihah' btw) to supporting Saddam Hussein, to fighting Saddam Hussein,then to fighting islamic terrorists, and now you've gone full circle and have been supporting Islamic rebels again who have now finally created some kind of weird fucked up caliphate that is so extremist that even Al Qaeda doesn't want to have anything to do with them. Yup we did all that just to fuck with people. Zero European involvement in any of that too. And you think we're supporting ISIS? No, I think the primary motivation was/is to fuck with Russia via proxy wars. The natives can then proceed to live in what's left of their countries.
Some of that past was a Cold War legacy, sure. Walking away from Afghanistan after worked out great...
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On July 14 2014 11:09 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2014 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 09:43 Simberto wrote:On July 14 2014 09:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:55 Nyxisto wrote:On July 14 2014 08:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 08:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 14 2014 08:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On July 14 2014 07:16 Gorsameth wrote:Because the last x times 'Merica brought peace to the Middle East were so successful. Help Iran fix the region but hey you spend the last decades alienating them so that's hardly an option either. Compared to what? All the times Europe brought peace to the Middle East? nice attempt at trying to change the subject but do try again. What you think bringing peace to the Middle East is like bringing flowers to a girl? If that's what Europeans think they need to go back to the little kid's table. No what he thinks and he's right is that bringing peace and democracy to the middle-east is not working. What has Europe to do with it in a thread about US politics? If Europeans think bringing peace to the Middle East is ezpz, they're welcome to try. Until then the troll-lol-lol 'Murica criticism can suck it. I don't think you quite understand the point being made. The US has spend a lot of time and effort "bringing peace to the Middle East". The result is a middle east that is less peaceful than ever before. So maybe the solution is less getting involved in other peoples affairs and fucking them up even more. Basically, the problem is the american arrogance that you so wonderfully show. Not everyones problem is yours, and especially in the case of the middle east, you invest a lot of money, effort and lives, and afterwards the result is worse than it was before you started. And your reaction to people pointing this out is "Do it better yourselves". We have been doing that. Doing nothing is exceedingly superior to what you have been doing. Thus, i am quite happy that european nations do not fall into the same trap that you keep constantly walking back in every time you just got out based on that arrogance that tells you that obviously there is nothing that you can not fix because you are american. We've been involved in the middle east well before the second gulf war, sometimes times at the behest of the international community. We can't just yell "smell ya later!" and expect peace. Shit, Syria isn't a peaceful place these days and since we pulled out of Iraq, ISIS moved in. If the Us would have gone in with the best intentions and would have failed people would not be so bitter about it. What makes people angry is the fact that the US has deliberately caused chaos in the middle-east. You went from supporting the Mujahideen (which literally means 'people doing jihah' btw) to supporting Saddam Hussein, to fighting Saddam Hussein,then to fighting islamic terrorists, and now you've gone full circle and have been supporting Islamic rebels again who have now finally created some kind of weird fucked up caliphate that is so extremist that even Al Qaeda doesn't want to have anything to do with them.
cite? I recall US being very picky about who to support in Syria; and very carefully only supporting the more moderate groups, and NOT ones like ISIS.
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On July 14 2014 10:43 oneofthem wrote:
that they chose a softer guy is already signal for a change of attitude. plus, we kinda need to leverage their gas against russia
Iran's gas is irrelevant for the reasons Sermokala points out. Also, I highly doubt that Rouhani is a harbinger of change in Iran. Regardless, we don't really have to guess. We can simply watch the nuclear talks continue to flounder.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
it's not irrelevant at all. north american gas is still years away without the infrastructure.
iran has actually stepped back on enrichment and has complied with most of the arms control rules.
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years away yes but thats still entierly likely that its going to be within the next half decade at the most. The koch brothers wouldn't pass up the chance to become the fallback natural gas supplies to the only other fully developed continent in the world.
We more then have the capacity today to deliver the natural gas, the only thing left is the intrastructure.
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EPT
