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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On July 15 2014 04:18 oneofthem wrote: counterpoint data, most stormfront users are young. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/opinion/sunday/seth-stephens-davidowitz-the-data-of-hate.html?ref=opinion That should really be read as "most internet users are young." And what is that supposed to be a counterpoint to anyways? | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On July 15 2014 04:18 oneofthem wrote: counterpoint data, most stormfront users are young. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/opinion/sunday/seth-stephens-davidowitz-the-data-of-hate.html?ref=opinion The GOP is pretty radicalized, but even in the Tea Party, the average stormfront user would be an outcast for their views. Edit: also, though I'd like to see real data on this, I've repeatedly heard that the young are generally liberal on gay marriage and fairly conservative on abortion (at least personally). Is this a true statistic/does anyone know of the source? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23957 Posts
On July 15 2014 04:18 oneofthem wrote: counterpoint data, most stormfront users are young. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/opinion/sunday/seth-stephens-davidowitz-the-data-of-hate.html?ref=opinion Well of course the users of a 'Hate Website' are going to skew younger, it's an internet site? Other than sites like AARP pretty sure the registration lists for most websites skew under 30 pretty hard. You can see it in poll after poll that Social conservatism (and the hate that often comes along) is far less prevalent in young people, however young people are far more vocal about it now than they were in lets say the late 90's. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Xojdi00.png) Thinking back to the OJ trial, I would hear the occasional racial slur or remark regarding OJ's guilt or a snide remark about Johnny but it was one of those things people said looking over their shoulders under their breath. Now with the internet being so popular and social networking being where it is something like Trayvon Martin's death put front and center more racial animosity in an hour than the whole OJ trial did. Instantly after a Trayvon Story was posted you would see "That N**ger deserved to be shot" and plenty worse. It's not that people were not saying that kind of stuff about OJ it's just that they didn't make a million facebook, instagram, tumblr, tweets, saying those racist comments. I would suggest that the membership of sites like Stormfront is less about any new swell in young bigotry, it's just where all the 'cool kid' bigots hang out (instead of some lodge or in a field with a burning cross [obviously less observable]) | ||
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Wolfstan
Canada605 Posts
On July 15 2014 04:00 aksfjh wrote: Supporting Israel's right to exist isn't exclusive to supporting every action they do. They've been pushing Palestinian buttons for awhile now, trying to get a rise out of the extremist groups so they can come in and justify wiping out those groups and all the collateral that comes with an operation of that magnitude. What has Israel been doing to "push buttons" and make the bleeding heart liberals condemn Israel for offending extremists? The have been warning civilian population away from tactical targets and using low impact mortars on the roofs of buildings before imminent strikes. Source | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23957 Posts
On July 15 2014 05:15 Wolfstan wrote: What has Israel been doing to "push buttons" and make the bleeding heart liberals condemn Israel for offending extremists? The have been warning civilian population away from tactical targets and using low impact mortars on the roofs of buildings before imminent strikes. Source Killing more Palestinian civilians in retaliation for threatening/ launching rockets that cause very little comparable damage at Jewish civilians is one thing, the asymmetrical nature of the deaths would be another. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 15 2014 04:18 oneofthem wrote: counterpoint data, most stormfront users are young. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/opinion/sunday/seth-stephens-davidowitz-the-data-of-hate.html?ref=opinion Regarding to alexa and some report I found on the Internet this site has less than 1.8k unique visitors a day. I don't think that says anything about Americas youth. Killing more Palestinian civilians in retaliation for threatening/ launching rockets that cause very little comparable damage at Jewish civilians is one thing, the asymmetrical nature of the deaths would be another. Given the fact that the Hamas has been hitting them with rockets for years Israel could basically claim that they're at war. If Cuba would start shooting rockets at Florida I don't think many people would claim that the US can't attack them "because that's completely unfair and it's killing people!" If Palestine wants to live in peace with Israel they need to kick the Hamas out, simply as that. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i keep tab on some of these extremist outlets, and the situation seems to me to be ideological self radicalization. a guy finds a pamphlet or a website and they click with his established but undeveloped prejudices. keep in mind you need to be an activist bigot to join something like stormfront. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On July 15 2014 05:15 Wolfstan wrote: What has Israel been doing to "push buttons" and make the bleeding heart liberals condemn Israel for offending extremists? The have been warning civilian population away from tactical targets and using low impact mortars on the roofs of buildings before imminent strikes. Source Continuing to develop in the West Bank after agreeing many times to stop, I would call that a gigantic button they keep pushing. The situation in Gaza and the West Bank has been in pretty poor shape in general, and there's a LOT of "group punishment" going around for the actions of some extremists. Also, I don't disagree with the notion that they are attempting to keep civilian casualties to a minimum, but they are accepting them as collateral damage in the end. None of the higher ups are getting upset that innocent people are getting caught in the operation. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On July 15 2014 06:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: If the new GOP turns out to be very Libertarian then Europe is in for a shock on the foreign policy front. I was under the impression the only libertarian of consequence in the entire party was Rand Paul and that the rest (Perry, Santorum, McCain, Cruz, Rubio, Ryan, Pence, Bush) were all firmly on the other side of the divide, wanting to ramp up/continue obama policy. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Let's say that the US leaves the NATO tomorrow, leaves all military bases and so on, what's going to change in reality? | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On July 15 2014 05:39 Nyxisto wrote: Regarding to alexa and some report I found on the Internet this site has less than 1.8k unique visitors a day. I don't think that says anything about Americas youth. Given the fact that the Hamas has been hitting them with rockets for years Israel could basically claim that they're at war. If Cuba would start shooting rockets at Florida I don't think many people would claim that the US can't attack them "because that's completely unfair and it's killing people!" If Palestine wants to live in peace with Israel they need to kick the Hamas out, simply as that. it is, of course, not that simple. the support the hamas is recieving becomes less suprising when one looks at the economic situation Gaza: extremly high population density and unemployment, a smuggling and shortage economy and a high dependency on the israeli currency paint a disastrous picture. all of this leads to a hugh support for the hamas due to the various welfare bodys the run or operate and the ridiciouls promises they make. it is easy to dismiss the palestianians due to their continous support for the hamas, but it certainly isnt fair | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On July 15 2014 06:23 Nyxisto wrote: People tend to stress that the US is paying for 75% of the NATO budget, but honestly, Europe's military strength is still far bigger than Russia's, which is the only other big player on the continent. Not to mention of the French and British nuclear arsenal. Let's say that US leaves the NATO tomorrow, leaves all military bases and so on, what's going to change in reality? Potential social programs are cut due to increased spending on arms procurement and development, Europe finds itself having to furnish economic aid to Eastern Europe (including some EU members), & Africa as the US has withdrawn from such projects. The EU now has to carry the entirety of the IMF and it's credits etc as the US is no longer part of that either. Arms buildup due to Middle East, and a more aggressive Russia. Bigger Naval spending (as the sea lanes that carry trade are no longer protected only the US ones). Entirely new treaties as NATO no longer exists in its current form and the UN is possibly reformed. World recession in short while the US economy rapidly changes as Corporations no longer have subsidies etc. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 15 2014 06:27 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Potential social programs are cut due to increased spending on arms procurement and development, Europe finds itself having to furnish economic aid to Eastern Europe (including some EU members), & Africa as the US has withdrawn from such projects. The EU now has to carry the entirety of the IMF and it's credits etc as the US is no longer part of that either. Arms buildup due to Middle East, and a more aggressive Russia. Bigger Naval spending (as the trade lanes are no longer protected only the US ones). Entirely new treaties as NATO no longer exists in its current form and the UN is possibly reformed. Is complete withdrawal from international diplomatic and monetary organisations something that libertarians advocate? Because that goes far further than just changing foreign military policy. | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
Yeah Israel is not the shining beacon of human rights. Good on the propaganda front though. Giving a courtesy call before you bomb someone's house is about as nice as being polite while raping someone. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
3.1 National Defense We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression. The United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world. We oppose any form of compulsory national service. 3.3 International Affairs American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world. Our foreign policy should emphasize defense against attack from abroad and enhance the likelihood of peace by avoiding foreign entanglements. We would end the current U.S. government policy of foreign intervention, including military and economic aid. We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or by political or revolutionary groups. 3.4 Free Trade and Migration We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property. http://www.lp.org/platform This exclude personal views of such candidates of course. | ||
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