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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On May 03 2014 15:22 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2014 11:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Anti-capitalist protesters clashed with police — and “superheroes” — during Seattle's May Day march, local media reported. At least nine people were arrested, police said.
“Whose streets? Our streets,” some chanted as they marched through the famously left-leaning city. Others shouted “Anarchy lives” and “The system is failing.” Some marchers handed out fliers that read “Capitalism and the state still rule Seattle.”
Seattle is home to the Rain City Superhero Movement — costumed activists who describe themselves as a crime-fighting brigade — and at one point a fight broke out between some of them and a group of anarchists. Police broke it up.
Security forces, many wearing body armor, flanked the march on bicycles and trailed protesters in patrol cars and on horseback. May Day demonstrations have become a tradition in Seattle, rapidly gaining momentum in recent years.
Local news station KIRO 7 quoted police as saying hundreds of people wearing masks and black clothing and with backpacks marched for hours carrying signs, flags and banners denouncing the police and capitalism.
"I believe in transformative justice and community accountability," one masked anti-capitalist, who marched with a big pink banner that simply read "F--k off," told the Seattle PI newspaper. "These cops that are surrounding us right now are just the later generations of the slave-catchers that caught slaves before; you know, it's just a continuation. It's modern-day slavery, and that's what we're fighting against."
Police shot pepper spray at demonstrators, and officers said bottles were thrown at them. A splinter group of protesters set fire to garbage cans in Capitol Hill, a neighborhood known for its progressive politics. Source Jesus christ those people make me sick. They have no clue what they are saying, what they are protesting against, they have no clue about anything. Just a bunch of angry idiots looking for a reason to start damaging property and looting, which many protests eventually turn into. They want anarchy? They want no more capitalism? Lol.
Anecdote:
+ Show Spoiler +My school had an Anarchist club with somewhere between 20-50 possibly more. I didn't know this before I went to the meeting but most of them actually come from affluent families despite their appearances. Being an anarchist even at probably one of the most liberal schools in the country was thought pretty foolish and could turn you into a social pariah pretty fast so not everyone was especially open about it. (The anarchists were also especially irritating. Everything all the time was about which corporate masters you were serving by purchasing anything that wasn't made by someone down the road.) So they didn't last more than a few days in most social groups outside of their anarchist circle. Even if they were right (which they almost never were if they went beyond a platitude) they could not of been more of a pain in the ass about it.
There is not much to understand but yes these morons want an end to capitalism, any semblance of government as we know it, and to usher in a 'beautiful anarchy' as they see it. After my questioning it was clear they don't have a plan beyond 'burn it all down' (metaphorically speaking) although it was clear some of them meant it more literally than others. They are largely all talk except during events like this mayday thing.
They are basically a blend of the most extreme Libertarian views amped up on PCP
They are mostly crazy as a legless fox in a hen-house but I have to give it to them for not snitching on their brothers and sisters in their cause. Although considering what the government is doing to catch some property criminals it seems like this would be a time for some people to wonder if this wasn't government abuse of power? Remember these two had nothing to do with mayday protests they were just alleged to be associated with people who had.
So they didn’t testify. They decided, in a rather harrowing act of modern civil disobedience, to remain silent. And because they didn’t rat on their friends (or their alleged friends)—again, not those people’s actions, but their beliefs—they spent five months in jail, two in solitary confinement.
They were just released on February 28 and returned home, because the court found that continued incarceration would not lead them to testify, and in fact, was just strengthening their resolve. Check out the release papers here. Last week, I got a chance to talk with them a bit about their experience.
“Neither of us had any information about what happened on May Day. I want to make that very clear,” Kteeo said. Kteeo doesn’t consider herself an anarchist, though she acknowledges the system of capitalist neoliberalism is flawed, “I knew the grand-jury system was really fucked up, but it’s still shocking that it can happen to you. You think about it theoretically a lot, but when it actually happens it can be really jarring. Just like prison. I knew that prisons were wrong, innately, but actually being inside a federal prison in the United States and seeing the horrible things that happen to people every day, there are no words to describe it.”
Being called in front of a grand jury and being put in federal prison for 5 months just for not testifying about tenuous connections to some property damage that is a fraction of what Bundy owes? But yeah $1 million in debt to the government, armed militias on his ranch, local residents and representatives begging for help in removing this danger to their citizenry, and you get a week of Hannity praising these morons. And a consistent stream of people defending the clearly racist militias who even the damn 'Oath breakers' (another Bundy ranch militia) almost f'ing shot.
source
+ Show Spoiler +I am only speaking about the types I met at my old school, who were the type to support vandalism like what has occurred at these mayday events(and likely the actual people under suspicion). However they didn't consider themselves as anomalies in the movement outside of considering themselves to be the 'smart' anarchists....
I should add that there are some honorable veterans out there who I owe the respect they have earned but they too are wrong on the Bundy deal and at least in this case acting foolish.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
on why american citizens are not dominating the TA ranks. look it's a fairly thankless job. try keeping the 100 hour a week lab schedule some of these biomed field guys go through while you can go to med school as an american?
foreign TAs are cheap and work harder. they also won't organize and protest. though you won't find foreign actual professors dominating the research rankings. see where this is going?
edit: ok i don't know if i'm in the correct thread anymore. was replying to this convo started by pandemik
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TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — Lawyers for the former chairman of the agency that oversees the George Washington Bridge said Friday their client will not be turning over any more documents to a New Jersey legislative panel investigating the lane closures that sparked a political scandal for Gov. Chris Christie.
Attorneys for former Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Chairman David Samson cited their client's Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and right of privacy in a letter to the investigating committee.
The letter said Samson has done nothing wrong and violated no laws — "quite the opposite," according to his lawyers — but should not be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances.
The lawyers also said it appears the legislative committee has already reached a conclusion rather than being committed to a "full and fair proceeding."
The Democratic co-chairs of the committee, Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg and Assemblyman John Wisniewski, said their inquiry will move forward.
"The best way to get to the root of this abuse of government power is full cooperation by everyone, so we are disappointed in Mr. Samson's decision," they said in a statement. "We will obviously continue forward with this bipartisan inquiry until the people of New Jersey get the answers they deserve."
Samson resigned amid the scandal that also led to the firing of a high-level Christie aide who sent another port authority official a message about it being "time for some traffic problems."
Source
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A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list
(CNN) -- At least 40 U.S. veterans died waiting for appointments at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system, many of whom were placed on a secret waiting list.
The secret list was part of an elaborate scheme designed by Veterans Affairs managers in Phoenix who were trying to hide that 1,400 to 1,600 sick veterans were forced to wait months to see a doctor, according to a recently retired top VA doctor and several high-level sources.
For six months, CNN has been reporting on extended delays in health care appointments suffered by veterans across the country and who died while waiting for appointments and care. But the new revelations about the Phoenix VA are perhaps the most disturbing and striking to come to light thus far.
Internal e-mails obtained by CNN show that top management at the VA hospital in Arizona knew about the practice and even defended it.
Dr. Sam Foote just retired after spending 24 years with the VA system in Phoenix. The veteran doctor told CNN in an exclusive interview that the Phoenix VA works off two lists for patient appointments:
There's an "official" list that's shared with officials in Washington and shows the VA has been providing timely appointments, which Foote calls a sham list. And then there's the real list that's hidden from outsiders, where wait times can last more than a year. ...
Source
VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that. It's kind of pathetic at this point.
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The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to the provision of public government services? Hmmmm.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
teh new york va is pretty good.
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On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm.
The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC.
This isn't just a Phoenix issue.
Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole.
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On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole.
Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president.
Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic.
Source
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On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Show nested quote +Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source
Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad".
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On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad".
The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark.
Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy.
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On May 04 2014 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad". The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark. Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy.
Sorry dear troll. I'm not going to feed you today.
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On May 04 2014 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad". The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark. Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy. Sorry dear troll. I'm not going to feed you today.
That your way of saying I'm right?
Because if you brought up the VA issues in the light that they had been going on for decades instead of just focusing on what's happened since Obama took office (like countless republican/conservative news sources) it wouldn't have even come up.
Don't get your panties in a bunch when people post skewed news without pointing out how it is skewed and how it could be framed differently, and then call someone who clearly shows how your post is no better from the ones you call out (without explanation I might add) a troll. Well, unless you want to go ahead and shred what little credibility you have left?
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A non-profit legal organization has filed suit to force the federal government to reclassify the manatee from endangered to threatened, reopening the bitter fight over efforts to protect the species from boats.
The Pacific Legal Foundation said it decided to file suit after the government failed to act on its 2012 petition to reclassify the manatee.
The California-based foundation said the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's own study recommended the change in 2007 because of the manatee's improving prospects. This year, a single-day count found 4,834 manatees in Florida, well above the minimum stated by the federal government, the foundation said.
"It has been seven years since the federal government's own scientific review signaled that the manatee should be removed from 'endangered' status," said Christina M. Martin, an attorney in the foundation's Palm Beach Gardens office. "But no action has been taken. Everyone who values responsible environmental management should be concerned by this foot-dragging and failure to follow scientific findings."
Pat Rose, executive director of The Save the Manatee Club, said protections should not be relaxed, particularly since the species has suffered a high number of deaths in the past few years. Last year a record 830 died, largely from a combination of red tide on the Gulf Coast and a mysterious wildlife die-off around the Indian River Lagoon.
"We think there's no justification for downlisting them at this point," he said.
The Pacific Legal Foundation, which focuses on property rights, limited government and individual liberty, represents Save Crystal River Inc., a Citrus County group concerned about boating restrictions in King's Bay.
Source
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On May 04 2014 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad". The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark. Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy. Sorry dear troll. I'm not going to feed you today. That your way of saying I'm right? Because if you brought up the VA issues in the light that they had been going on for decades instead of just focusing on what's happened since Obama took office (like countless republican/conservative news sources) it wouldn't have even come up. Don't get your panties in a bunch when people post skewed news without pointing out how it is skewed and how it could be framed differently, and then call someone who clearly shows how your post is no better from the ones you call out (without explanation I might add) a troll. Well, unless you want to go ahead and shred what little credibility you have left?
Dearest, dearest troll. I posted an article from CNN which, afaik, isn't a far right news source. At no point did I blame Obama or Democrats. When pressed by Farv, I cited three scandals including Walter Reed which happened during Bush's terms.
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On May 04 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad". The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark. Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy. Sorry dear troll. I'm not going to feed you today. That your way of saying I'm right? Because if you brought up the VA issues in the light that they had been going on for decades instead of just focusing on what's happened since Obama took office (like countless republican/conservative news sources) it wouldn't have even come up. Don't get your panties in a bunch when people post skewed news without pointing out how it is skewed and how it could be framed differently, and then call someone who clearly shows how your post is no better from the ones you call out (without explanation I might add) a troll. Well, unless you want to go ahead and shred what little credibility you have left? Dearest, dearest troll. I posted an article from CNN which, afaik, isn't a far right news source. At no point did I blame Obama or Democrats. When pressed by Farv, I cited three scandals including Walter Reed which happened during Bush's terms.
Why are you calling him a troll? Contrary to your tendency of posting one-liners which often address strawmen/very small aspects of the larger posts you are replying to, from what I've seen he consistently provides substance in his posts, whether or not you agree with them.
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On May 04 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad". The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark. Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy. Sorry dear troll. I'm not going to feed you today. That your way of saying I'm right? Because if you brought up the VA issues in the light that they had been going on for decades instead of just focusing on what's happened since Obama took office (like countless republican/conservative news sources) it wouldn't have even come up. Don't get your panties in a bunch when people post skewed news without pointing out how it is skewed and how it could be framed differently, and then call someone who clearly shows how your post is no better from the ones you call out (without explanation I might add) a troll. Well, unless you want to go ahead and shred what little credibility you have left? Dearest, dearest troll. I posted an article from CNN which, afaik, isn't a far right news source. At no point did I blame Obama or Democrats. When pressed by Farv, I cited three scandals including Walter Reed which happened during Bush's terms.
No it's not far right. It's relatively common knowledge that they pretty much give equal time to far right and far left crap in an attempt to fill a 'non-partisan' gap in the cable news market(edit: which could be added to a list of issues with their 'coverage'). You know as good as anyone how these 'revelations' are being spun covered in right-wing spheres.
Farv called out what most people saw in your post (pointedly, in the way I have been urging you to do, instead of your typical one-liners). I merely pointed out how the self-acknowledged partisan summary you created initially, mirrored republican/conservative sources and I highlighted it's ridiculousness. You extracted from that 'Republicans are bad' and have persisted in unprovoked and unsupported name-calling.
If someone is trolling in this discussion, it certainly isn't myself.
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On May 04 2014 05:49 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad". The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark. Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy. Sorry dear troll. I'm not going to feed you today. That your way of saying I'm right? Because if you brought up the VA issues in the light that they had been going on for decades instead of just focusing on what's happened since Obama took office (like countless republican/conservative news sources) it wouldn't have even come up. Don't get your panties in a bunch when people post skewed news without pointing out how it is skewed and how it could be framed differently, and then call someone who clearly shows how your post is no better from the ones you call out (without explanation I might add) a troll. Well, unless you want to go ahead and shred what little credibility you have left? Dearest, dearest troll. I posted an article from CNN which, afaik, isn't a far right news source. At no point did I blame Obama or Democrats. When pressed by Farv, I cited three scandals including Walter Reed which happened during Bush's terms. Why are you calling him a troll? Contrary to your tendency of posting one-liners which often address strawmen/very small aspects of the larger posts you are replying to, from what I've seen he consistently provides substance in his posts, whether or not you agree with them.
Are you kidding me? He tried to redirect all blame to Republicans and then attacked Reagan, which had nothing to do with the topic.
He's consistently one of the most partisan and dishonest posters here.
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On May 04 2014 05:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad". The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark. Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy. Sorry dear troll. I'm not going to feed you today. That your way of saying I'm right? Because if you brought up the VA issues in the light that they had been going on for decades instead of just focusing on what's happened since Obama took office (like countless republican/conservative news sources) it wouldn't have even come up. Don't get your panties in a bunch when people post skewed news without pointing out how it is skewed and how it could be framed differently, and then call someone who clearly shows how your post is no better from the ones you call out (without explanation I might add) a troll. Well, unless you want to go ahead and shred what little credibility you have left? Dearest, dearest troll. I posted an article from CNN which, afaik, isn't a far right news source. At no point did I blame Obama or Democrats. When pressed by Farv, I cited three scandals including Walter Reed which happened during Bush's terms. No it's not far right. It's relatively common knowledge that they pretty much give equal time to far right and far left crap in an attempt to fill a 'non-partisan' gap in the cable news market(edit: which could be added to a list of issues with their 'coverage'). You know as good as anyone how these 'revelations' are being spun covered in right-wing spheres. Farv called out what most people saw in your post (pointedly, in the way I have been urging you to do, instead of your typical one-liners). I merely pointed out how the self-acknowledged partisan summary you created initially, mirrored republican/conservative sources and I highlighted it's ridiculousness. You extracted from that 'Republicans are bad' and have persisted in unprovoked and unsupported name-calling. If someone is trolling in this discussion, it certainly isn't myself.
The only news source I regularly read is NPR.
How was my summary partisan? I didn't mention D's or R's. If you think I'm being a partisan right winger you're beyond hope.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
jonny is one of the better posters around and you can dispute his arguments but he does go on facts and arguments.
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On May 04 2014 06:08 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 05:49 kwizach wrote:On May 04 2014 05:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 04:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 04:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2014 03:29 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 04 2014 03:17 farvacola wrote:
The manner in which the VA delegates responsibility according to region is clearly not working.
Your decision to omit "Phoenix" from "VA had a scandal a couple years ago and a different one a couple years before that." Is all too telling Jonny. For someone so adamant when faced with liberal leaning news sources, you sure put in the due diligence when it comes to fashioning a summary like Fox News. Are we to simply ignore that Arizona routinely rates among the worst in the nation when it comes to public government services? Hmmmm. The VA had a spending scandal back in 2012. Before that there was a scandal over backlogs. Before that the VA had a scandal at the Walter Reed medical center in Washington DC. This isn't just a Phoenix issue. Edit: In other words, I wrote "VA" and not "Phoenix VA" because I was referring to the VA as a whole. Yeah the problems in the VA are systematic and have been there for decades. One of the few benefits of the blindness with which conservatives/Republicans attack Obama is that it has brought to light several problems that they stridently ignored when there was a Republican president. Although based off of Republican/Conservative rhetoric you would think the only Republican president in living memory was Reagan. With 6 Republican Presidents in living memory it seems odd that the only one who's policies are ever invoked by name are Reagan's. A man who was literally mentally ill (at least by many accounts from close aids and such) during his last term as president. Other observers and commentators have noted how often Reagan confused films he'd made with political reality, including telling witnesses about concentration camps he'd helped to liberate in World War II, when the humbler truth was rather that he had made a movie or two about the topic. Source Lol, nice job spinning the issue into "Republicans are bad". The problem is bad, Republicans failure to notice/care/do anything about it before Obama was president is bad too. The fact that blind attacks on Obama bring light to issues like this is better than them languishing in the dark. Whether 'Republicans are bad' or not is a matter of how one interprets the facts as presented. If you have a counter argument/portrayal that places Republicans in a better light you are free to make it. People can decide on their own which one sounds more accurate. But simply interpreting my comment as 'republicans are bad' displays a lack of comprehension. It also is indicative of it's accuracy. Sorry dear troll. I'm not going to feed you today. That your way of saying I'm right? Because if you brought up the VA issues in the light that they had been going on for decades instead of just focusing on what's happened since Obama took office (like countless republican/conservative news sources) it wouldn't have even come up. Don't get your panties in a bunch when people post skewed news without pointing out how it is skewed and how it could be framed differently, and then call someone who clearly shows how your post is no better from the ones you call out (without explanation I might add) a troll. Well, unless you want to go ahead and shred what little credibility you have left? Dearest, dearest troll. I posted an article from CNN which, afaik, isn't a far right news source. At no point did I blame Obama or Democrats. When pressed by Farv, I cited three scandals including Walter Reed which happened during Bush's terms. Why are you calling him a troll? Contrary to your tendency of posting one-liners which often address strawmen/very small aspects of the larger posts you are replying to, from what I've seen he consistently provides substance in his posts, whether or not you agree with them. Are you kidding me? He tried to redirect all blame to Republicans and then attacked Reagan, which had nothing to do with the topic. He's consistently one of the most partisan and dishonest posters here.
The context of this issue in republican spheres has to be informed with pieces like this excerpt from the congressional record from 1999 of Senator Rockefeller (D), from both sides. I fear the rhetoric currently present in republican/conservative is absent supportive records like this from representatives from their side. This is a matter of reality not of partisanship. I am however urging people like you Jonny to please present evidence like I've mentioned/shown so when someone like myself suggests the blame for our current situation (and resistance to resolve problems) rests more firmly with one side of the aisle than the other you have ground to stand on if you, or others choose to refute it.
Mental health services, I come back to it. Why is it in this country that we will not put down mental health as a disease? Why is it we do not consider it as a medical condition? Why is it that we put it off in the category of human behavior as opposed to something that has a cause in something, such as posttraumatic stress disorder. For veterans, to blindside mental health, to push mental health to the side is beyond comprehension and beyond humanity. In summary, it is imperative that we all understand what the budget crunch has meant to each VA health service. I say all of this because, again, of the $792 billion tax cut. If that takes place, everything I have talked about not only continues to be true but grows somewhere between 15 and 30 percent worse, not if we are to increase programs, but taking already that we are funding below where programs ought to be, where we have shortchanged veterans' health care services for years, and now we are going to cut billions and billions of more dollars out of that over these next years. That is absolutely intolerable.
Source
The only news source I regularly read is NPR.
How was my summary partisan? I didn't mention D's or R's. If you think I'm being a partisan right winger you're beyond hope.
You should really diversify to get a more complete understanding of issues and the rhetoric surrounding them.
If you did (or more clearly understood the meaning of the word 'partisan') you would probably have a better grasp on how summaries/statements like yours can be partisan, without explicitly mentioning a party.
EDIT for Jonny:+ Show Spoiler + I don't know what you are. You don't do a very good job, from what I understand intentionally, of actually establishing a position. You said that you prefer to just nitpick others arguments until some ethereal moment when you are convinced, without really being clear if you actually disagreed in the first place.
I think it has been pointed out by several people (and at one point gotten you an official warning) that your posts have been becoming evermore tiresome, monotonous, and spiteful (with a slight variation from the norm with your posting of an article, which was quickly followed by the same typical behavior).
But for the sake of discussion I don't think you fit neatly in some 'partisan right-winger' box, so I suppose we can keep hope alive
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EPT
