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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 10009

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 03 2018 23:32 GMT
#200161
On March 04 2018 08:27 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2018 08:06 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 04 2018 07:42 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2018 07:38 Toadesstern wrote:
On March 04 2018 07:29 Sermokala wrote:
Well he needs to continue his plan of paying off the national debt by lowering the nations trade imbalance with other countries. Its the only thing that makes sense.

how does that even work?

It's not like the US government is importing goods with federal money from EU/Asia/Canada etc. Or I guess, there's probably a small subset of government projects that actually do that to some degree but for the most part trade imbalance is private companies buying from other companies, right?... so how does that money those companies spend or don't spend on foreign import go into dealing with national debt?

Trump once explained his plan to lower the national debt by closeing the trade deficit and he cited china as an example with their 288 billion a year that can be paid against the debt.

And what are the taxes on that which would actually go to the government?

No that was just the end of the idea. He explained he could pay the national debt off in a few years like that.

It's following the internal logic of a fundamentally illogical plan. It only answers why Trump is doing it and why he's picking these means to rationalize it, not why it's wrong.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
March 03 2018 23:38 GMT
#200162
guys, I'm pretty sure that's Sermokala's way of making fun of Trump. He's not actually trying to explain it
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 03 2018 23:40 GMT
#200163
I was just trying to figure out how it made sense, but I guess that's Trump-consistency sense as opposed to actual sense.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2394 Posts
March 03 2018 23:45 GMT
#200164
Trump simply can't tell the difference between trade deficits and public debt/deficits. There really isn't any logic there. Also, are these steel tariffs actually going to come into place or is that one of those twitter policies that never actually get implemented?
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 03 2018 23:47 GMT
#200165

This is injustice.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 03 2018 23:50 GMT
#200166
On March 04 2018 08:40 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I was just trying to figure out how it made sense, but I guess that's Trump-consistency sense as opposed to actual sense.

The trade deficit is a balance sheet to Trump. Balance trade, balance the budget.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23325 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-03 23:52:38
March 03 2018 23:51 GMT
#200167
On March 04 2018 08:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/status/969621755496161282
This is injustice.


Does the fact that the cops involved in this conspiracy to cover a crime (and frame an innocent person) still have jobs indicate to you this is a incredibly pervasive problem, not a few bad apples?

EDIT: Also serves as a great illustration that driving is a privilege that the government can take away without any just cause.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
March 03 2018 23:57 GMT
#200168
I read the full story hoping that at least there would be some kind of silver lining like a minor wrist slap for the officers involved, which would obviously be insufficient but better than nothing. But not even that... There's a chance something like that happened and it never became public but come on, you want to tell people that you put those officers on leave for a while or something like that
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23325 Posts
March 04 2018 00:00 GMT
#200169
On March 04 2018 08:57 Toadesstern wrote:
I read the full story hoping that at least there would be some kind of silver lining like a minor wrist slap for the officers involved, which would obviously be insufficient but better than nothing. But not even that... There's a chance something like that happened and it never became public but come on, you want to tell people that you put those officers on leave for a while or something like that


Not if the message you want to send is that we protect our own over the civilian population. In fact, we'll frame innocent civilians and send them to jail to cover for criminal cops. Even if they cost us millions in legal fees/settlements to avoid admitting we're a criminal gang.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 04 2018 00:02 GMT
#200170
If Trump wanted to actually do something about the trade deficit he woudln't have supported the legislation that increases it (just kidding, he would cuz he's an idiot and doesn't realize that's what he did, i'm just mocking him for it)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 04 2018 00:02 GMT
#200171
On March 04 2018 08:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2018 08:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/status/969621755496161282
This is injustice.


Does the fact that the cops involved in this conspiracy to cover a crime (and frame an innocent person) still have jobs indicate to you this is a incredibly pervasive problem, not a few bad apples?

EDIT: Also serves as a great illustration that driving is a privilege that the government can take away without any just cause.

An incredibly pervasive problem of juries and police management

We always differed about whether or not it's more about police corruption or additionally police targeting of blacks.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 04 2018 00:08 GMT
#200172
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23325 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-04 00:11:27
March 04 2018 00:10 GMT
#200173
On March 04 2018 09:02 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2018 08:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 04 2018 08:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/status/969621755496161282
This is injustice.


Does the fact that the cops involved in this conspiracy to cover a crime (and frame an innocent person) still have jobs indicate to you this is a incredibly pervasive problem, not a few bad apples?

EDIT: Also serves as a great illustration that driving is a privilege that the government can take away without any just cause.

An incredibly pervasive problem of juries and police management

We always differed about whether or not it's more about police corruption or additionally police targeting of blacks.


There's no argument, one look at NYC's stop and frisk data shows anyone with eyes that they are disproportionately and illegally targeting black people.

I'm pretty sure if we go back we don't find that you endorse the idea that corruption (this has nothing to do with a jury) was a pervasive and corrosive problem in PD's across the country. Pretty sure you were more of a:

"Don't let the bad apples stain the credibility of police around the country."

kinda guy.

But as a group that highly values justice and law I expect a surge of folks on the right to speak up about this and call for punishment and reform. /s

On March 04 2018 09:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/rweingarten/status/970077915441516544


Nice of leadership not to mention it also fell apart because they made a deal without the approval of their members.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 04 2018 00:16 GMT
#200174
On March 04 2018 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2018 09:02 Danglars wrote:
On March 04 2018 08:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 04 2018 08:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/status/969621755496161282
This is injustice.


Does the fact that the cops involved in this conspiracy to cover a crime (and frame an innocent person) still have jobs indicate to you this is a incredibly pervasive problem, not a few bad apples?

EDIT: Also serves as a great illustration that driving is a privilege that the government can take away without any just cause.

An incredibly pervasive problem of juries and police management

We always differed about whether or not it's more about police corruption or additionally police targeting of blacks.


There's no argument, one look at NYC's stop and frisk data shows anyone with eyes that they are disproportionately and illegally targeting black people.

I'm pretty sure if we go back we don't find that you endorse the idea that corruption (this has nothing to do with a jury) was a pervasive and corrosive problem in PD's across the country. Pretty sure you were more of a:

"Don't let the bad apples stain the credibility of police around the country."

kinda guy.

But as a group that highly values justice and law I expect a surge of folks on the right to speak up about this and call for punishment and reform. /s

I'm pretty sure you're letting your black activism act as a standin for ignoring the points of agreement you might have with others in the forum. And if this forum proves anything, it's that ignorance promotes misunderstanding. In my neck of the woods, that's known as linking people not "down for the struggle" to all sorts of evils-by-proxy.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23325 Posts
March 04 2018 00:18 GMT
#200175
On March 04 2018 09:16 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2018 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 04 2018 09:02 Danglars wrote:
On March 04 2018 08:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 04 2018 08:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/status/969621755496161282
This is injustice.


Does the fact that the cops involved in this conspiracy to cover a crime (and frame an innocent person) still have jobs indicate to you this is a incredibly pervasive problem, not a few bad apples?

EDIT: Also serves as a great illustration that driving is a privilege that the government can take away without any just cause.

An incredibly pervasive problem of juries and police management

We always differed about whether or not it's more about police corruption or additionally police targeting of blacks.


There's no argument, one look at NYC's stop and frisk data shows anyone with eyes that they are disproportionately and illegally targeting black people.

I'm pretty sure if we go back we don't find that you endorse the idea that corruption (this has nothing to do with a jury) was a pervasive and corrosive problem in PD's across the country. Pretty sure you were more of a:

"Don't let the bad apples stain the credibility of police around the country."

kinda guy.

But as a group that highly values justice and law I expect a surge of folks on the right to speak up about this and call for punishment and reform. /s

I'm pretty sure you're letting your black activism act as a standin for ignoring the points of agreement you might have with others in the forum. And if this forum proves anything, it's that ignorance promotes misunderstanding. In my neck of the woods, that's known as linking people not "down for the struggle" to all sorts of evils-by-proxy.


Was that supposed to be a response to what I said? I know you quoted it, but that's a non sequitur.

If you're looking for praise for having the slightest bit of intellectual consistency (only to be washed away with a comment like this) you're barking up the wrong tree.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 04 2018 00:25 GMT
#200176
On March 04 2018 09:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/rweingarten/status/970077915441516544

Nice try. Your members didn't accept the deal your union negotiated with the government, and now you're trying to flip it around and say it's the government's fall for reneging on the plan the union members would not stop the strike to accept.

It's the teacher's demands against the government, and this union figurehead is trying to act like she wasn't completely sidelined in this process lol
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23325 Posts
March 04 2018 00:27 GMT
#200177
On March 04 2018 09:25 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2018 09:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/rweingarten/status/970077915441516544

Nice try. Your members didn't accept the deal your union negotiated with the government, and now you're trying to flip it around and say it's the government's fall for reneging on the plan the union members would not stop the strike to accept.

It's the teacher's demands against the government, and this union figurehead is trying to act like she wasn't completely sidelined in this process lol


Well they aren't wrong that if their members had accepted it (what usually happens), they wouldn't have got it anyway because of legislators. Sure looked like a trap to get them back in school without any concessions and they both got caught and are trying to diffuse blame.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24701 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-04 00:28:59
March 04 2018 00:28 GMT
#200178
I was not aware that {CC}StealthBlue is a member of the West Virginia teachers' union, such that he is a representative of that side in the dispute and its members. If not, what exactly are the sides here?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 04 2018 00:30 GMT
#200179
On March 04 2018 09:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2018 09:16 Danglars wrote:
On March 04 2018 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 04 2018 09:02 Danglars wrote:
On March 04 2018 08:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 04 2018 08:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/status/969621755496161282
This is injustice.


Does the fact that the cops involved in this conspiracy to cover a crime (and frame an innocent person) still have jobs indicate to you this is a incredibly pervasive problem, not a few bad apples?

EDIT: Also serves as a great illustration that driving is a privilege that the government can take away without any just cause.

An incredibly pervasive problem of juries and police management

We always differed about whether or not it's more about police corruption or additionally police targeting of blacks.


There's no argument, one look at NYC's stop and frisk data shows anyone with eyes that they are disproportionately and illegally targeting black people.

I'm pretty sure if we go back we don't find that you endorse the idea that corruption (this has nothing to do with a jury) was a pervasive and corrosive problem in PD's across the country. Pretty sure you were more of a:

"Don't let the bad apples stain the credibility of police around the country."

kinda guy.

But as a group that highly values justice and law I expect a surge of folks on the right to speak up about this and call for punishment and reform. /s

I'm pretty sure you're letting your black activism act as a standin for ignoring the points of agreement you might have with others in the forum. And if this forum proves anything, it's that ignorance promotes misunderstanding. In my neck of the woods, that's known as linking people not "down for the struggle" to all sorts of evils-by-proxy.


Was that supposed to be a response to what I said? I know you quoted it, but that's a non sequitur.

If you're looking for praise for having the slightest bit of intellectual consistency (only to be washed away with a comment like this) you're barking up the wrong tree.

I mean, you responded exactly with what I expected: the conflict I already said existed between us is the real disagreement beyond police reform. So, truth proven.

I think the immense racialization of the issue is one barrier to police reform generally.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 04 2018 00:32 GMT
#200180
On March 04 2018 09:28 micronesia wrote:
I was not aware that {CC}StealthBlue is a member of the West Virginia teachers' union, such that he is a representative of that side in the dispute and its members. If not, what exactly are the sides here?

The twitter quote was from the WV leader, and spoke in the first person plural (our agreement). My response is to her, knowing that StealthBlue has made no claim to be a teacher or union leader in WV.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
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