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lets assume that information is correct, which is very doubtful.
You do not engage a civilian ship on open sea with military assets and order them around. thats pretty much a decleration of war. No no matter who the hell was on that ship, there are limits to premptive strikes.
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On November 18 2012 04:08 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:06 reincremate wrote:On November 18 2012 04:06 acker wrote:On November 18 2012 04:03 reincremate wrote:
Hamas is a petty, weak terrorist organization who won't accomplish anything. If Palestinian civilians want to remain in occupied Palestine as a show of solidarity with Hamas or for whatever other reason, they are free to do so. But a better way to ensure survival for the Palestinians would be to set up a new state of Palestine in like Nevada or something. Now of course the ideal solution would be if the Zionists ended the 60+ year occupation of Palestine, but that's much less feasible at this point. If Palestinians try to pull an Israel in Nevada...um, yeah. Good luck with that. Well that's basically how Israel was formed. Yeah, but Israel's formation was materially supported and legitimized by the superpowers of the time. If not the natives of the region. Do you think there's any chance in hell America will gift Palestinian citizens surplus weapons, tanks, and land? Do you think America will even ALLOW millions of Palestinians to immigrate into Nevada?
So does that mean if all the superpowers said lets make Nevada, Israel american people and people who lived in the state would support such a measure? I do agree the super powers gave Israel away but you have to have the thought of who was there before.
It's kinda of sad but I want to say this though it makes has nothing to do with topic and is based on my opinion that this is another conflict of religion
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On November 18 2012 04:14 Finrod1 wrote:
as a result of being constantly under attack since founding . ... otherwise i pretty much agree with everything noam/goozen said. and im very very ashamed by those fellow germans who are obviously antisemtic, you should know better.
Yes, because criticism of Israel reflects on every Jew on the planet.
Guess if I criticize China I hate Chinese people.
On November 18 2012 04:15 KlinKz wrote:
So does that mean if all the superpowers said lets make Nevada, Israel american people and people who lived in the state would support such a measure? I do agree the super powers gave Israel away but you have to have the thought of who was there before.
It's kinda of sad but I want to say this though it makes has nothing to do with topic and is based on my opinion that this is another conflict of religion
Of course they wouldn't. There would be terrorist attacks against the Palestinian settlers, inevitably leading to war.
Religion hasn't helped, but it's primarily a land issue.
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On November 18 2012 04:13 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:08 Cuce wrote:On November 18 2012 02:46 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 02:42 NesquiKGG wrote:On November 18 2012 01:18 sgfightmaster wrote:On November 18 2012 00:41 NesquiKGG wrote:just as i mentioned before... Israel is good at telling lies and manipulating people  .. these people who are tryin to defend what Israel did to Palastine the few years are the best example of brainwashed brats who got manipluated .... You can turn your head away and stop looking at the facts but Israel and America did kill Millions of People for "defending" theirselfs ... good example 9/11 and Alqaida ... they used this to kill Millions of Iraqis and Afghans.. Israel uses hamas to keep on their projects getting their "land" back (LOLZ) by killing more and more innocent people .. and dont ever EVER EVER try to tell me they are not innocent or hamas is to blame for their death.... i cant run arround and kill every single American just because their Soldiers (i call them Terrorists) messed up my Country... a cursory search on google/wiki reveals your figures of "millions of people" are off the mark by orders of magnitudes. this is literally a fact. also, many of the civilian casualties are caused by explosive devices of the insurgents themselves. would you stop hurting the discussion with these mistaken claims? unless of course, you've "seen things", in which case do go right ahead and quote your sources google huh? I lost 2 Uncles 4 cousins 1 aunt and my Grandfather .. you know how? Americans randomly shooted at a supermarket just for fun ... you know what the News published? It was a suicide mission of one of the terrorists ... now let me ask you one thing.. you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? when the Turkish President asked that moron how people try to defend him while he did this thing everybody tried to shut him up ... why? why do people who try to tell the truth always get cut off? Answer me some Questions and i gonna stop hatin on Israel. How do you feel as a neutral Person about what happened the last time when Israel attacked Gaza? (the Beach story and so on) + Show Spoiler +How do you react when people kill a member of your Family or the whole Family? ( im sure you cant answer this cause you didnt go trough something like that and i wish you and the others here never gonna live through a hell like this ) You chose Hamas over peace, you face the consequences. yeah but.. peace is quite shitty, with limited living space, razed down infrastructure, no mean on production, and ambargos both from sea and land. Sorry, I honestly can not ask palestinians to sit down and accept everything getting worse. It is not a choice of peace or killing all the jews! for most people its a choice of survival. And firing rockets at civilians or organizing terror attack helps them..... how? Also remember they have a border with Egypt, and the gaza strip was always that size.
when did war helped anybody?
I never said targeting civilians were helping palantenians. same goes for israel. if no other options are available to them, you gotta stop and think again before accusing people of mindless bloodlust.
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On November 18 2012 04:09 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 03:58 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 18 2012 03:57 reincremate wrote:
Civilians in Gaza and the West Bank should seek refugee status in North America or Europe or elsewhere. It's much easier said than done to uproot yourself and start a new life, but it's better than just waiting for the Israelis to wipe them all out. Most countries would probably turn them away, but it's worth a shot. If there is a solution to the problem this would be something like what it would look like. Unfortunately i don't think Hamas will allow that. They are invested in this war, and i think they will remain so until the bitter end. Even thinking about the number of civilian casualties that they will suffer because of this makes me shudder. Israel does have a history of deliberately targeting civilians who are doing no harm to them (the flotilla - no we haven't forgotten). To think they will shy away form it when they believe that they are justified in it because of war (ie if they have to begin a ground operation) is just wrong. Although the flotilla had mostly human rights activists (who even as we speak are clearly outraged at the 40k deaths in Syria and have sent massive amounts of aids and flotillas there...) those who were killed were members of the IHH who were not human rights activists and came to cause trouble (watch the BBC show about it). So if you want to claim Israel targets civilians, link some proof please, and yes i am aware it has happend that soldiers have done it on purpose but they get trialed and its not Israeli policy.
Listen i'm not trying to say that Israel is evil, or that it is their policy to target civilians. Read my previous posts, i said in fact that Israel has been doing its best not to kill civilians recently. I think they have realised that they don't have to, and they lose support each time it happens. I also think that when it happens, it is more individuals than the state that do it.
I should have phrased the last post differently
If anything it makes Hamas even more heartless not to back down. If whoever was on that flotilla was massacred, which they were (you shouldn't deny that unarmed people were shot at close range), then imagine what 75,000 troops are going to do if they all end up going into Gaza.
Many, many unarmed innocents will die if that happens. "That" Israel will say ''is war'', and with some justification based on past wars.
And Goozen, i tend to stay away from the BBC footage of this crisis in general, because it constantly swings from being biased in Palestine's favor to being biased in Israel's favor. Their reporting of 'facts' is very very selective.
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On November 18 2012 04:14 Cuce wrote:
lets assume that information is correct, which is very doubtful.
You do not engage a civilian ship on open sea with military assets and order them around. thats pretty much a decleration of war. No no matter who the hell was on that ship, there are limits to premptive strikes.
International navel law allows the boarding of a ship in international waters if you know its about to try and breach a legal navel blockade.
Fact is there have been around ~15 ships so far and this is the only one that had any violence and it all comes down to the IHH members on the ship.
As i said, watch the BBS show about it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00thr24
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On November 18 2012 04:18 Cuce wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:13 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 04:08 Cuce wrote:On November 18 2012 02:46 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 02:42 NesquiKGG wrote:On November 18 2012 01:18 sgfightmaster wrote:On November 18 2012 00:41 NesquiKGG wrote:just as i mentioned before... Israel is good at telling lies and manipulating people .. these people who are tryin to defend what Israel did to Palastine the few years are the best example of brainwashed brats who got manipluated .... You can turn your head away and stop looking at the facts but Israel and America did kill Millions of People for "defending" theirselfs ... good example 9/11 and Alqaida ... they used this to kill Millions of Iraqis and Afghans.. Israel uses hamas to keep on their projects getting their "land" back (LOLZ) by killing more and more innocent people .. and dont ever EVER EVER try to tell me they are not innocent or hamas is to blame for their death.... i cant run arround and kill every single American just because their Soldiers (i call them Terrorists) messed up my Country... a cursory search on google/wiki reveals your figures of "millions of people" are off the mark by orders of magnitudes. this is literally a fact. also, many of the civilian casualties are caused by explosive devices of the insurgents themselves. would you stop hurting the discussion with these mistaken claims? unless of course, you've "seen things", in which case do go right ahead and quote your sources google huh? I lost 2 Uncles 4 cousins 1 aunt and my Grandfather .. you know how? Americans randomly shooted at a supermarket just for fun ... you know what the News published? It was a suicide mission of one of the terrorists ... now let me ask you one thing.. you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? when the Turkish President asked that moron how people try to defend him while he did this thing everybody tried to shut him up ... why? why do people who try to tell the truth always get cut off? Answer me some Questions and i gonna stop hatin on Israel. How do you feel as a neutral Person about what happened the last time when Israel attacked Gaza? (the Beach story and so on) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfKwW3pkx7g&feature=player_detailpage#t=49s How do you react when people kill a member of your Family or the whole Family? ( im sure you cant answer this cause you didnt go trough something like that and i wish you and the others here never gonna live through a hell like this ) You chose Hamas over peace, you face the consequences. yeah but.. peace is quite shitty, with limited living space, razed down infrastructure, no mean on production, and ambargos both from sea and land. Sorry, I honestly can not ask palestinians to sit down and accept everything getting worse. It is not a choice of peace or killing all the jews! for most people its a choice of survival. And firing rockets at civilians or organizing terror attack helps them..... how? Also remember they have a border with Egypt, and the gaza strip was always that size. when did war helped anybody? I never said targeting civilians were helping palantenians. same goes for israel. if no other options are available to them, you gotta stop and think again before accusing people of mindless bloodlust.
Why is no other option available? why cant they merge with the PLO and actually hold negotiations? As long as they are violent (and that's 100% in Hamas's interest) nothing will be accomplished.
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On November 18 2012 04:19 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:14 Cuce wrote:
lets assume that information is correct, which is very doubtful.
You do not engage a civilian ship on open sea with military assets and order them around. thats pretty much a decleration of war. No no matter who the hell was on that ship, there are limits to premptive strikes. International navel law allows the boarding of a ship in international waters if you know its about to try and breach a legal navel blockade. Fact is there have been around ~15 ships so far and this is the only one that had any violence and it all comes down to the IHH members on the ship. As i said, watch the BBS show about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00thr24
Really legal? Care to elaborate on the legitimacy of the blockade of the gaza strip? Didnt the Hama's win by election?
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On November 18 2012 04:09 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 03:58 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 18 2012 03:57 reincremate wrote:
Civilians in Gaza and the West Bank should seek refugee status in North America or Europe or elsewhere. It's much easier said than done to uproot yourself and start a new life, but it's better than just waiting for the Israelis to wipe them all out. Most countries would probably turn them away, but it's worth a shot. If there is a solution to the problem this would be something like what it would look like. Unfortunately i don't think Hamas will allow that. They are invested in this war, and i think they will remain so until the bitter end. Even thinking about the number of civilian casualties that they will suffer because of this makes me shudder. Israel does have a history of deliberately targeting civilians who are doing no harm to them (the flotilla - no we haven't forgotten). To think they will shy away form it when they believe that they are justified in it because of war (ie if they have to begin a ground operation) is just wrong. Although the flotilla had mostly human rights activists (who even as we speak are clearly outraged at the 40k deaths in Syria and have sent massive amounts of aids and flotillas there...) those who were killed were members of the IHH who were not human rights activists and came to cause trouble (watch the BBC show about it). So if you want to claim Israel targets civilians, link some proof please, and yes i am aware it has happend that soldiers have done it on purpose but they get trialed and its not Israeli policy.
Stop thinking Israel is a white light that does not target civilians. 2008-2009 Gaza War, white phosphorus was dropped on crowded civilian residential areas. The BBC published a photograph of two shells exploding over a densely populated area on January 11. Heck, they have used white phosphorous on numerous refugee camps in Gaza City. Numerous agencies included Human Rights Organizations and news media outlets have confirmed this, even Israel has as well. Now, I understand if this happened once but it has happened numerous times in the span of one year.
Additionally, Israel blocked basic provisions from entering the Gaza Strip to help civilians, against what the United Nations instructed them to do.
So yes, they have targeted civilians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#Gaza_War_.282008.E2.80.932009.29
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On November 18 2012 04:23 KlinKz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:19 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 04:14 Cuce wrote:
lets assume that information is correct, which is very doubtful.
You do not engage a civilian ship on open sea with military assets and order them around. thats pretty much a decleration of war. No no matter who the hell was on that ship, there are limits to premptive strikes. International navel law allows the boarding of a ship in international waters if you know its about to try and breach a legal navel blockade. Fact is there have been around ~15 ships so far and this is the only one that had any violence and it all comes down to the IHH members on the ship. As i said, watch the BBS show about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00thr24 Really legal? Care to elaborate on the legitimacy of the blockade of the gaza strip? Didnt the Hama's win by election?
I remember him from the Gaza thread, I think. No point arguing with him, as no opinion will change.
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On November 18 2012 04:23 KlinKz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:19 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 04:14 Cuce wrote:
lets assume that information is correct, which is very doubtful.
You do not engage a civilian ship on open sea with military assets and order them around. thats pretty much a decleration of war. No no matter who the hell was on that ship, there are limits to premptive strikes. International navel law allows the boarding of a ship in international waters if you know its about to try and breach a legal navel blockade. Fact is there have been around ~15 ships so far and this is the only one that had any violence and it all comes down to the IHH members on the ship. As i said, watch the BBS show about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00thr24 Really legal? Care to elaborate on the legitimacy of the blockade of the gaza strip? Didnt the Hama's win by election?
Opinion on the legality of the blockade is mixed. In September 2011, a UN investigative committee concluded in the Palmer Report that the naval blockade is legal and had to be judged isolated from the restrictions on goods reaching Gaza via the land crossings. Concerning the restrictions on goods reaching Gaza via the land crossings the Palmer report stated that they were the main reason for an unsustainable and unacceptable humanitarian situation in Gaza.[17][18][19][20] UN envoy Desmond Tutu, United Nations Human Rights Council head Navi Pillay, the International Committee of the Red Cross and, according to Richard Falk, most experts on international law[21] consider the blockade illegal.[22][23][24][25][26]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
Notice im talking about the Naval one, and how Egypt have been doing the same.
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On November 18 2012 04:21 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:18 Cuce wrote:On November 18 2012 04:13 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 04:08 Cuce wrote:On November 18 2012 02:46 Feartheguru wrote:On November 18 2012 02:42 NesquiKGG wrote:On November 18 2012 01:18 sgfightmaster wrote:On November 18 2012 00:41 NesquiKGG wrote:just as i mentioned before... Israel is good at telling lies and manipulating people .. these people who are tryin to defend what Israel did to Palastine the few years are the best example of brainwashed brats who got manipluated .... You can turn your head away and stop looking at the facts but Israel and America did kill Millions of People for "defending" theirselfs ... good example 9/11 and Alqaida ... they used this to kill Millions of Iraqis and Afghans.. Israel uses hamas to keep on their projects getting their "land" back (LOLZ) by killing more and more innocent people .. and dont ever EVER EVER try to tell me they are not innocent or hamas is to blame for their death.... i cant run arround and kill every single American just because their Soldiers (i call them Terrorists) messed up my Country... a cursory search on google/wiki reveals your figures of "millions of people" are off the mark by orders of magnitudes. this is literally a fact. also, many of the civilian casualties are caused by explosive devices of the insurgents themselves. would you stop hurting the discussion with these mistaken claims? unless of course, you've "seen things", in which case do go right ahead and quote your sources google huh? I lost 2 Uncles 4 cousins 1 aunt and my Grandfather .. you know how? Americans randomly shooted at a supermarket just for fun ... you know what the News published? It was a suicide mission of one of the terrorists ... now let me ask you one thing.. you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? when the Turkish President asked that moron how people try to defend him while he did this thing everybody tried to shut him up ... why? why do people who try to tell the truth always get cut off? Answer me some Questions and i gonna stop hatin on Israel. How do you feel as a neutral Person about what happened the last time when Israel attacked Gaza? (the Beach story and so on) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfKwW3pkx7g&feature=player_detailpage#t=49s How do you react when people kill a member of your Family or the whole Family? ( im sure you cant answer this cause you didnt go trough something like that and i wish you and the others here never gonna live through a hell like this ) You chose Hamas over peace, you face the consequences. yeah but.. peace is quite shitty, with limited living space, razed down infrastructure, no mean on production, and ambargos both from sea and land. Sorry, I honestly can not ask palestinians to sit down and accept everything getting worse. It is not a choice of peace or killing all the jews! for most people its a choice of survival. And firing rockets at civilians or organizing terror attack helps them..... how? Also remember they have a border with Egypt, and the gaza strip was always that size. when did war helped anybody? I never said targeting civilians were helping palantenians. same goes for israel. if no other options are available to them, you gotta stop and think again before accusing people of mindless bloodlust. Why is no other option available? why cant they merge with the PLO and actually hold negotiations? As long as they are violent (and that's 100% in Hamas's interest) nothing will be accomplished.
because israel already holds a very much disputed legal blockade on whole state, and not that flexiable on negotiation table. a negotiation with unconditional support from USA to israel and no leverage on palestenian side will not solve anything. Why would those people sit together with their oppresser without and promise on compremise.
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Israel2209 Posts
On November 18 2012 04:08 Cuce wrote:
yeah but.. peace is quite shitty, with limited living space, razed down infrastructure, no mean on production, and ambargos both from sea and land.
You are describing life as it is CURRENTLY in the Gaza Strip, under Hamas rule.
Quick history lesson:
In September of 2000, after very serious peace negotiations failed, the Palestinians started the Second Intifada
(Which BTW caused 1,115 Israeli casualties and 8,000 injured. I am talking at you uninformed who are now just learning about this and think Israeli lost "just 4 lives" or something)
Life between the First and Second Intifada were actually pretty good for the Palestinians, with goods and people passing between Israel and the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Many Palestinians actually worked in Israel before the Second Intifada. Business relationships were formed.....
But that all changed when they decided to terrorize our lives (again), and since then the people in Gaza also democratically elected the terrorist organization Hamas as their leaders, so we are where we are today:
NOWADAYS,
Israel has a fairly strong cease fire relationship with the PLO who controls the West Bank. Palestinians who live there lead fairly normal lives.
Israel has an ongoing armed dispute with Hamas who controls the Gaza Strip, where they casually fire rockets at our civilians and we get pissed every few years and do something about it.
So in conclusion, peace CAN be good for the Palestinians, they just need to accept that when you enter negotiations you cannot expect the other side to accept all your demands, especially the ludicrous ones.
(What's with all the serious posts? Where is the WhiteDog of inflammatory nonsense?)
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Face it, nothing will change in the region. Hamas will keep rocket striking Israel to cement their government, Israel will keep striking Gaza to cement settlement policy.
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On November 18 2012 04:24 Housemd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:09 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 03:58 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 18 2012 03:57 reincremate wrote:
Civilians in Gaza and the West Bank should seek refugee status in North America or Europe or elsewhere. It's much easier said than done to uproot yourself and start a new life, but it's better than just waiting for the Israelis to wipe them all out. Most countries would probably turn them away, but it's worth a shot. If there is a solution to the problem this would be something like what it would look like. Unfortunately i don't think Hamas will allow that. They are invested in this war, and i think they will remain so until the bitter end. Even thinking about the number of civilian casualties that they will suffer because of this makes me shudder. Israel does have a history of deliberately targeting civilians who are doing no harm to them (the flotilla - no we haven't forgotten). To think they will shy away form it when they believe that they are justified in it because of war (ie if they have to begin a ground operation) is just wrong. Although the flotilla had mostly human rights activists (who even as we speak are clearly outraged at the 40k deaths in Syria and have sent massive amounts of aids and flotillas there...) those who were killed were members of the IHH who were not human rights activists and came to cause trouble (watch the BBC show about it). So if you want to claim Israel targets civilians, link some proof please, and yes i am aware it has happend that soldiers have done it on purpose but they get trialed and its not Israeli policy. Stop thinking Israel is a white light that does not target civilians. 2008-2009 Gaza War, white phosphorus was dropped on crowded civilian residential areas. The BBC published a photograph of two shells exploding over a densely populated area on January 11. Heck, they have used white phosphorous on numerous refugee camps in Gaza City. Numerous agencies included Human Rights Organizations and news media outlets have confirmed this, even Israel has as well. Now, I understand if this happened once but it has happened numerous times in the span of one year. Additionally, Israel blocked basic provisions from entering the Gaza Strip to help civilians, against what the United Nations instructed them to do. So yes, they have targeted civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#Gaza_War_.282008.E2.80.932009.29
Hit and killed civilians? yes. regrettable? yes. However it was dropped to cover the soldiers movement and its effects were underestimated, so were they targeted? no.
Targeting implies having the intention of killing civilians.
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Isn't the IHH accredited by the UN for being a humanitarian organization? I don't understand you saying those who were killed were members of the IHH who were not human rights activists and came to cause trouble. They are human rights activists. As if it's ok to kill them because you say they are not activists.
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On November 18 2012 04:29 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:24 Housemd wrote:On November 18 2012 04:09 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 03:58 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 18 2012 03:57 reincremate wrote:
Civilians in Gaza and the West Bank should seek refugee status in North America or Europe or elsewhere. It's much easier said than done to uproot yourself and start a new life, but it's better than just waiting for the Israelis to wipe them all out. Most countries would probably turn them away, but it's worth a shot. If there is a solution to the problem this would be something like what it would look like. Unfortunately i don't think Hamas will allow that. They are invested in this war, and i think they will remain so until the bitter end. Even thinking about the number of civilian casualties that they will suffer because of this makes me shudder. Israel does have a history of deliberately targeting civilians who are doing no harm to them (the flotilla - no we haven't forgotten). To think they will shy away form it when they believe that they are justified in it because of war (ie if they have to begin a ground operation) is just wrong. Although the flotilla had mostly human rights activists (who even as we speak are clearly outraged at the 40k deaths in Syria and have sent massive amounts of aids and flotillas there...) those who were killed were members of the IHH who were not human rights activists and came to cause trouble (watch the BBC show about it). So if you want to claim Israel targets civilians, link some proof please, and yes i am aware it has happend that soldiers have done it on purpose but they get trialed and its not Israeli policy. Stop thinking Israel is a white light that does not target civilians. 2008-2009 Gaza War, white phosphorus was dropped on crowded civilian residential areas. The BBC published a photograph of two shells exploding over a densely populated area on January 11. Heck, they have used white phosphorous on numerous refugee camps in Gaza City. Numerous agencies included Human Rights Organizations and news media outlets have confirmed this, even Israel has as well. Now, I understand if this happened once but it has happened numerous times in the span of one year. Additionally, Israel blocked basic provisions from entering the Gaza Strip to help civilians, against what the United Nations instructed them to do. So yes, they have targeted civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#Gaza_War_.282008.E2.80.932009.29 Hit and killed civilians? yes. regrettable? yes. However it was dropped to cover the soldiers movement and its effects were underestimated, so were they targeted? no. Targeting implies having the intention of killing civilians.
Its a completely redundant argument because intentions are very difficult to prove.
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On November 18 2012 04:14 Finrod1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:08 EtherealBlade wrote:On November 18 2012 03:55 Thecheef wrote:
You guys have to understand that Israel gave Palastine the Gaza Strip, and now they are firing rockets upon them, even if Israel is overreacting they are a country in the middle east who seek constant threats from the surrounding nations. You have to have some sympathy for them. They "gave" them the Gaza Strip after they took away everything else. as a result of being constantly under attack since founding . ... otherwise i pretty much agree with everything noam/goozen said. and im very very ashamed by those fellow germans who are obviously antisemtic, you should know better.
If you can't tell the difference of being critical to a government and being anti semitic just don't post.
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On November 18 2012 04:16 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:14 Finrod1 wrote:
as a result of being constantly under attack since founding . ... otherwise i pretty much agree with everything noam/goozen said. and im very very ashamed by those fellow germans who are obviously antisemtic, you should know better. Yes, because criticism of Israel reflects on every Jew on the planet. Guess if I criticize China I hate Chinese people.
Most people don't see the difference between the politic by netanjahus partie and israel. Most dont even see the difference between being a jew and being an israeli. You can't compare antisemitism with "normal" racism. It is sadly unique. And if you cant understand and acknowledge that you may have a problem with antisemitism yourself.
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On November 18 2012 04:32 Finrod1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 04:16 acker wrote:On November 18 2012 04:14 Finrod1 wrote:
as a result of being constantly under attack since founding . ... otherwise i pretty much agree with everything noam/goozen said. and im very very ashamed by those fellow germans who are obviously antisemtic, you should know better. Yes, because criticism of Israel reflects on every Jew on the planet. Guess if I criticize China I hate Chinese people. Most people don't see the difference between the politic by netanjahus partie and israel. Most dont even see the difference between being a jew and being an israeli. You can't compare antisemitism with "normal" racism. It is sadly unique. And if you cant understand and acknowledge that you may have a problem with antisemitism yourself.
Just stop. You don't even understand what antisemitism means. You have demonstrated that.
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EPT
