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Usual abortion topic rule of using baby to mean baby and foetus to mean foetus applies. These words have meaning. - KwarK |
On November 15 2012 01:32 Ender985 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 01:13 logikly wrote:
Those of us who are pro choice have these exceptions and its a shame that she wasn't allowed to have it. life of mother, Rape, Incest. I know me and every other conservative i know supports these cases. Its a true shame that both were lost. But allow me to ask you something. Those of you who are pro choice do you regard the human fetus as nothing more than a fingernail or a kidney that you can dispose of? I assume you meant "pro life", as "pro choice" is usally considered being "pro abortion". In which case I have a question for you. Why is it OK to take the life of a baby if he was product of rape? Aren't you making an innocent unborn baby pay, with his own life, for the crimes of his father? Disclamer: I myself don't have a clear cut oppinion on the topic, since any cutoff we can disscuss is essentially arbitrary. But I've always been curious about that specific point for pro-life people.
The entire Pro-life stance is hypocritical on a day to day basis such that it's best to not even debate the topic anymore because they're so far gone.
George Carlin says it best "preborn, you're fine, preschool you're fucked".
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On November 15 2012 01:39 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 01:32 Ender985 wrote:On November 15 2012 01:13 logikly wrote:
Those of us who are pro choice have these exceptions and its a shame that she wasn't allowed to have it. life of mother, Rape, Incest. I know me and every other conservative i know supports these cases. Its a true shame that both were lost. But allow me to ask you something. Those of you who are pro choice do you regard the human fetus as nothing more than a fingernail or a kidney that you can dispose of? I assume you meant "pro life", as "pro choice" is usally considered being "pro abortion". In which case I have a question for you. Why is it OK to take the life of a baby if he was product of rape? Aren't you making an innocent unborn baby pay, with his own life, for the crimes of his father? Disclamer: I myself don't have a clear cut oppinion on the topic, since any cutoff we can disscuss is essentially arbitrary. But I've always been curious about that specific point for pro-life people. 1: you got them the wrong way round. pro-life is pro abortion. 2. Your use of the word 'he' when describing a baby whose sex has not been identified may suggest something about your views on the matter. 3. Would you make an innocent woman pay twice by firstly being raped, and secondly having to give birth to a child she never wanted or asked for?
No you have them the wrong way around.
Pro life is anti abortion, pro the life of the child. Pro choice is pro women's right to choose to have an abortion.
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In general I'm pretty against abortion but I would think that just about anyone could agree that it should be an option when the woman's life is at risk because of the pregnancy. Crazy people...
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so i have a question. why don't women travel to pro-abortion countries for their abortion? say, in much the same way for same-sex marriage.
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On November 15 2012 01:49 a176 wrote:
so i have a question. why don't women travel to pro-abortion countries for their abortion? say, in much the same way for same-sex marriage.
Yes, everyone can just drop their things to travel out of country for an abortion.
I have a better question, why is the divide between reality and fiction so hard to understand? The idea that a person can't abort a lump of cells is crazy... That's why the "trimester" kicks in and we only allow abortions up to a point. After that abortions should be regarded as only if the womans life is in danger. This gives a 3 month cushion to handle mistakes while not actually operating on a living "life" but a grouping of cells.
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On November 15 2012 01:49 a176 wrote:
so i have a question. why don't women travel to pro-abortion countries for their abortion? say, in much the same way for same-sex marriage.
So I have a question. Why don't people have more money?
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United Kingdom10024 Posts
On November 15 2012 01:44 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 01:39 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 15 2012 01:32 Ender985 wrote:On November 15 2012 01:13 logikly wrote:
Those of us who are pro choice have these exceptions and its a shame that she wasn't allowed to have it. life of mother, Rape, Incest. I know me and every other conservative i know supports these cases. Its a true shame that both were lost. But allow me to ask you something. Those of you who are pro choice do you regard the human fetus as nothing more than a fingernail or a kidney that you can dispose of? I assume you meant "pro life", as "pro choice" is usally considered being "pro abortion". In which case I have a question for you. Why is it OK to take the life of a baby if he was product of rape? Aren't you making an innocent unborn baby pay, with his own life, for the crimes of his father? Disclamer: I myself don't have a clear cut oppinion on the topic, since any cutoff we can disscuss is essentially arbitrary. But I've always been curious about that specific point for pro-life people. 1: you got them the wrong way round. pro-life is pro abortion. 2. Your use of the word 'he' when describing a baby whose sex has not been identified may suggest something about your views on the matter. 3. Would you make an innocent woman pay twice by firstly being raped, and secondly having to give birth to a child she never wanted or asked for? No you have them the wrong way around. Pro life is anti abortion, pro the life of the child. Pro choice is pro women's right to choose to have an abortion.
oh yes of course.
oops.
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On November 15 2012 01:49 a176 wrote:
so i have a question. why don't women travel to pro-abortion countries for their abortion? say, in much the same way for same-sex marriage.
Everything is easy when you have the money
Of course she would have spent the money, but I bet she didn't know she was in that much trouble
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Please change the thread title, the current is populist and inaccurate.
Instead its appropriate to choose a more neutral one, something like 'discussion of the irish anti abortion law'
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On November 15 2012 01:49 a176 wrote:
so i have a question. why don't women travel to pro-abortion countries for their abortion? say, in much the same way for same-sex marriage.
Read my post that's up a little bit, Irish women do do this.
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"But she said 'I'm sorry, unfortunately it's a Catholic country' and it's the law that they can't abort when the foetus is live."
This quote really made me cringe. Forcing a religion on people as law? This isn't the 1700's the church should be separated from the government. Why should everyone in a country be forced to live under popular beliefs? It's important to respect beliefs but they shouldn't be making laws on society.
source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741
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On November 15 2012 01:56 Crazyahmed wrote:
Please change the thread title, the current is populist and inaccurate . Why did you not write 'baby saved by....'. I think you get the point
Instead its appropriate to choose a more neutral one, something like 'discussion of the irish anti abortion law'
Please read the article. Once again, this is a case where abortion law prevented a definite miscarriage from being aborted because it had a heartbeat.
This was not a "baby born/mother dies" story, this is a "mother not allowed to abort dying baby" story.
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I agree with almart. I believe that the catholic church has great influence on irish law, which results in things like an "anti abortion law"
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On November 15 2012 02:01 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 01:56 Crazyahmed wrote:
Please change the thread title, the current is populist and inaccurate . Why did you not write 'baby saved by....'. I think you get the point
Instead its appropriate to choose a more neutral one, something like 'discussion of the irish anti abortion law' Please read the article. Once again, this is a case where abortion law prevented a definite miscarriage from being aborted because it had a heartbeat. This was not a "baby born/mother dies" story, this is a "mother not allowed to abort dying baby" story.
Irish law specifically allows abortions to protect mothers life.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On November 15 2012 02:01 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 01:56 Crazyahmed wrote:
Please change the thread title, the current is populist and inaccurate . Why did you not write 'baby saved by....'. I think you get the point
Instead its appropriate to choose a more neutral one, something like 'discussion of the irish anti abortion law' Please read the article. Once again, this is a case where abortion law prevented a definite miscarriage from being aborted because it had a heartbeat. This was not a "baby born/mother dies" story, this is a "mother not allowed to abort dying baby" story.
Please read the thread. There are exceptions allowed in the RoI for women who are at risk of death, not applied in this case because, I would hazard a guess the Doctors were either clinically incompetent, fearful of prosecution due to ambiguity in the law, or were morally uncomfortable with abortion so personally decided to pursue with their course of action. None of which are particularly nice to think about.
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United Kingdom10024 Posts
The exception to Irish anti abortion law is a part of European court ruling, and not specific to Ireland. This is why there is so much confusion.
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On November 15 2012 02:07 Jockmcplop wrote:
Actually you are all wrong regarding Irish law.
The exception to Irish anti abortion law is a part of European law, and not specific to Ireland. This is why there is so much confusion.
So the Irish law completely bans abortions but the EU mandates that abortions are manditory if a woman's life is at risk?
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On November 15 2012 01:40 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 01:32 Ender985 wrote:On November 15 2012 01:13 logikly wrote:
Those of us who are pro choice have these exceptions and its a shame that she wasn't allowed to have it. life of mother, Rape, Incest. I know me and every other conservative i know supports these cases. Its a true shame that both were lost. But allow me to ask you something. Those of you who are pro choice do you regard the human fetus as nothing more than a fingernail or a kidney that you can dispose of? I assume you meant "pro life", as "pro choice" is usally considered being "pro abortion". In which case I have a question for you. Why is it OK to take the life of a baby if he was product of rape? Aren't you making an innocent unborn baby pay, with his own life, for the crimes of his father? Disclamer: I myself don't have a clear cut oppinion on the topic, since any cutoff we can disscuss is essentially arbitrary. But I've always been curious about that specific point for pro-life people. The entire Pro-life stance is hypocritical on a day to day basis such that it's best to not even debate the topic anymore because they're so far gone. George Carlin says it best "preborn, you're fine, preschool you're fucked".
i dont understand where you are getting this supposed hypocrisy from
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A clear violation of the Hippocratic oath. Someone needs to get sternly reprimanded for this, complete with furrowed eyebrows.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland
It's a matter of interpretation but the addition of the words 'with the due regard to the equal right to life at the mother' could be used to justify life-saving abortions, or prevent prosecution of Doctor's who carry out the procedure.
However it's not been properly legislated for by the Dail, hence this whole mess, i.e that there exists a getout for things like this, but it's very unclear and confusing for both medical practitioners and the public alike.
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EPT
