On November 15 2012 00:30 Bahamut1337 wrote: So a child was saved and a woman died. Tough.
Murdering millions of baby's is ok but heaven forbid if a woman dies.
Murdering millions of babies? You mean abortion? You need to ask yourself the question when a baby really becomes a human instead of being super close minded and say: "we need to save every potential baby" because if you go that way you could also say - masturbation is murder -which is silly of course
On November 15 2012 00:36 Wombat_NI wrote: Two links I found just looking around. The crux of the matter appears to be the relative ambiguity of the abortion to protect a woman's life provision. As it would pertain to this case, essentially the Doctors weren't sure whether this particular case would have legally allowed them to abort. That's with the information I currently have of course, there may be more to come.
Yes i think that this is the main problem. It is not really case of allowing abortion vs not allowing them; rather a case of ROI needing to clarify their law and sort it out (preferably to allow abortions, but that's just my view).
Laws pertaining to issues this important MUST be clear and obvious, so doctors are able to make the right decisions and be held accountable for wrong ones.
On November 15 2012 00:30 Bahamut1337 wrote: So a child was saved and a woman died. Tough.
Murdering millions of baby's is ok but heaven forbid if a woman dies.
Murdering millions of babies? You mean abortion? You need to ask yourself the question when a baby really becomes a human instead of being super close minded and say: "we need to save every potential baby" because if you go that way you could also say - masturbation is murder -which is silly of course
This is obviously the crucial part of the whole abortion debate. Any limit placed on when during a pregnancy an abortion may or may not take place seems completely arbitrary. At what point does life begin? Personally i'm inclined to say that once a baby is breathing air, their life has begun, but this kind of argument comes entirely down to opinion, so its almost impossible to resolve.
Dunno about that plop. A baby can survive after only 6 months of gestation with aid of severe medical aid. You've essentially said that the age of a fetus does not matter at all and only emergence from the womb matters. However that is clearly wrong.
Honestly I'm going to leave this thread because I support the commonly accepted practices of abortion and can think of no examples where I would convince someone of my views or another person could convince me of their views. All I will see in this thread is: 1) Stupid comments 2) Anti Abortion arguments 3) Pro Abortion arguments 4) Outrage comments.
On November 15 2012 00:30 Bahamut1337 wrote: So a child was saved and a woman died. Tough.
Murdering millions of baby's is ok but heaven forbid if a woman dies.
Murdering millions of babies? You mean abortion? You need to ask yourself the question when a baby really becomes a human instead of being super close minded and say: "we need to save every potential baby" because if you go that way you could also say - masturbation is murder -which is silly of course
This is obviously the crucial part of the whole abortion debate. Any limit placed on when during a pregnancy an abortion may or may not take place seems completely arbitrary. At what point does life begin? Personally i'm inclined to say that once a baby is breathing air, their life has begun, but this kind of argument comes entirely down to opinion, so its almost impossible to resolve.
that debate moves both directions really. is it determined based on dependance on the mother? because that is not necessarily womb intensive. is it based on when the egg and sperm meet? is it some arbitrary moment in between? this is the problem that should be at the core of the abortion debate, but it seems that most people end up tangled in a women's rights debate.
that said, this is egregiously off topic, but since the details of the OP are unclear I'm not sure what else should be said. the article and OP doesn't have the full information needed to form an educated opinion
On November 15 2012 00:47 Probe1 wrote: Dunno about that plop. A baby can survive after only 6 months of gestation with aid of severe medical aid. You've essentially said that the age of a fetus does not matter at all and only emergence from the womb matters. However that is clearly wrong.
Honestly I'm going to leave this thread because I support the commonly accepted practices of abortion and can think of no examples where I would convince someone of my views or another person could convince me of their views. All I will see in this thread is: 1) Stupid comments 2) Anti Abortion arguments 3) Pro Abortion arguments 4) Outrage comments.
Your comment is fair enough, but it reinforces the view that setting a clear time where the foetus becomes a baby is impossible. Where do you draw the line?
And i like the fact that you will leave this thread, but if everybody did the same based on the fact that their mind could not be changed the internet would be a very different place
On November 15 2012 00:30 Bahamut1337 wrote: So a child was saved and a woman died. Tough.
Murdering millions of baby's is ok but heaven forbid if a woman dies.
Murdering millions of babies? You mean abortion? You need to ask yourself the question when a baby really becomes a human instead of being super close minded and say: "we need to save every potential baby" because if you go that way you could also say - masturbation is murder -which is silly of course
Of course masturbation is murder; don't you know that every sperm is sacred and great? We wouldn't want to make God irate, not when so much good sperm is needed in your neighborhood. It would be such a waste. + Show Spoiler +
Being against abortions but for allowing them based on the health of the mother is nonsense. It should just be available - period. If you don't think so, why ever allow it except if the baby is also dead (like in this case, I was talking the wider debate.)
Anyway sad and tragic story I feel for her family.
Those of us who are pro choice have these exceptions and its a shame that she wasn't allowed to have it. life of mother, Rape, Incest. I know me and every other conservative i know supports these cases. Its a true shame that both were lost. But allow me to ask you something. Those of you who are pro choice do you regard the human fetus as nothing more than a fingernail or a kidney that you can dispose of?
On November 15 2012 01:13 logikly wrote: Those of us who are pro choice have these exceptions and its a shame that she wasn't allowed to have it. life of mother, Rape, Incest. I know me and every other conservative i know supports these cases. Its a true shame that both were lost. But allow me to ask you something. Those of you who are pro choice do you regard the human fetus as nothing more than a fingernail or a kidney that you can dispose of?
Depends on how old it is. If it's still just a jumble of cells with no consciousness then well, yeah...if it's old enough to be conscious then of course not.
Also, such legislation does nothing to particularly curb abortion apart from among the poor. Irish women, from both the North and South can travel over to clinics in England if they have the requisite cash.
The topic title is misleading. All that is known so far is that she had a miscarriage and died. There is an investigation ongoing to determine whether her death was caused by the miscarriage.
On November 15 2012 01:13 logikly wrote: Those of us who are pro choice have these exceptions and its a shame that she wasn't allowed to have it. life of mother, Rape, Incest. I know me and every other conservative i know supports these cases. Its a true shame that both were lost. But allow me to ask you something. Those of you who are pro choice do you regard the human fetus as nothing more than a fingernail or a kidney that you can dispose of?
I assume you meant "pro life", as "pro choice" is usally considered being "pro abortion".
In which case I have a question for you. Why is it OK to take the life of a baby if he was product of rape? Aren't you making an innocent unborn baby pay, with his own life, for the crimes of his father?
Disclamer: I myself don't have a clear cut oppinion on the topic, since any cutoff we can disscuss is essentially arbitrary. But I've always been curious about that specific point for pro-life people.
On November 15 2012 01:28 Kasu wrote: The topic title is misleading. All that is known so far is that she had a miscarriage and died. There is an investigation ongoing to determine whether her death was caused by the miscarriage.
It's not misleading. Septicaemia following a miscarriage is not uncommon at all. It usually happens if the uterus is not completely emptied. It can even happen after birth if the entire placenta doesn't come out either. The chance that the septicaemia occurred because of the miscarriage is quite high.
On November 15 2012 01:13 logikly wrote: Those of us who are pro choice have these exceptions and its a shame that she wasn't allowed to have it. life of mother, Rape, Incest. I know me and every other conservative i know supports these cases. Its a true shame that both were lost. But allow me to ask you something. Those of you who are pro choice do you regard the human fetus as nothing more than a fingernail or a kidney that you can dispose of?
I assume you meant "pro life", as "pro choice" is usally considered being "pro abortion".
In which case I have a question for you. Why is it OK to take the life of a baby if he was product of rape? Aren't you making an innocent unborn baby pay, with his own life, for the crimes of his father?
Disclamer: I myself don't have a clear cut oppinion on the topic, since any cutoff we can disscuss is essentially arbitrary. But I've always been curious about that specific point for pro-life people.
1: you got them the wrong way round. pro-life is pro abortion. 2. Your use of the word 'he' when describing a baby whose sex has not been identified may suggest something about your views on the matter. 3. Would you make an innocent woman pay twice by firstly being raped, and secondly having to give birth to a child she never wanted or asked for?
EPT
