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On July 14 2012 05:07 Prime Directive wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 05:03 ragz_gt wrote:On July 14 2012 04:57 Prime Directive wrote:On July 14 2012 04:53 ragz_gt wrote:On July 14 2012 04:50 Prime Directive wrote:
1. Report the obvious bug to GSL so that the depot can be reinstated as it should be
2. Keep the knowledge to yourself and abuse the bug to attempt to win a round vs. Nestea
Number 2 is clearly the wrong decision for a professional to make. At least one that wants to be considered a professional. GSL messed up, but the fans and players should help keep things like this from happening. We do that all the time here on TL. How was that an obvious bug? Tastosis did not know it was a bug during the match. GSL official did not know it was a bug during the match. GomTV's own John posted on twitter (wrongly) that there were no neutral supply depots on Metropolis. It's been in play for weeks and no one seems to notice or care. Of course we know NOW it was a bug, but how was it obvious before the match? I mean that if you knew there was no supply depot there, you would know it was a bug and that you should report it. It's hard to spot, but obviously a bug once you do spot it. Also, to the other poster above me, by "we do that all the time" I was referring to our attempts to communicate to Blizzard about things in the game we consider broken. How was it obviously a bug once you spot it though? Neutral supply depot is not required map feature - there is no neutral depot on ladder map, and T doesn't have 100% win rate against Zerg. In fact, they doesn't haven't 50% win rate against Zerg. It is arguable that the neutral depot should be removed with the Queen range buff. It is especially true for Metropolis, where T have 33% win rate against Zerg. The change was done to GomTV's official version. It is plausible to assume that Gom wanted to balance the map a bit and removed the depots, it might be odd that there was no communication, but I doubt their communication protocol is on par with USMC. If it was not obviously a bug to GomTV's own John even after he saw the match, how was it obvious to players? Because every other GSL map with that kind of ramp has the depots? Let me know if i'm wrong about that but I believe that's the case.
As it pointed out multiple time already in this thread, Dual Sight and Crossfire didn't have supply depots.
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I doubt blizzard would call this a 'bug' in the game so it would be nice if people stop refering to it missing as a 'bug'. A bug is a GLITCH, an unintended design flaw made by the developers. In this case, a USER CREATED neutral supply depot was not in place on the map. It missing is not a bug but an INTENDED(whether known or not) edit. BLocking off a ramp is not a bug, it is aprt of the game, it can happen on the official blizzard ladder, it can happen in official games where there is no neutral supply depot. If anything, the neutral supply depot is the 'bug' and shouldnt even be there in the first place as it was crated to dampen down zerg tears, tears that no longer exist. All this doesnt change the fact that nestea played like ass.
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isn't there a glitch in BW that you can make units go places they shouldn't be able to go to? didn't Flash use it in his most recent OSL match?
also:
maybe Byun thought they patched only that map. completely plausible, especially considering people who work for GOM were confused after the fact. you're just assuming based on knowledge you now have (knowledge that Byun had no access to BTW) that it was "obvious".
it wasn't "obvious" to a lot of people that it was a bug, hence the creation of this thread... the only reason they made this thread (im assuming) is because A LOT of people were pissed at GOM because they thought GOM had intentionally changed the map and not told anyone about it or were just straight up confused about it.
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There are multiple reasons why GSL might have decided to remove it but it doesn't explain why Prime and Byun never asked the question in the first place.
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On July 14 2012 05:17 Prime Directive wrote:
There are multiple reasons why GSL might have decided to remove it but it doesn't explain why Prime and Byun never asked the question in the first place.
I prefer to ask why they were the only ones who noticed it was missing.
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Well at least their aware of the situation now. And thanks for the post!
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On July 14 2012 05:10 stratmatt wrote:
I doubt blizzard would call this a 'bug' in the game so it would be nice if people stop refering to it missing as a 'bug'. A bug is a GLITCH, an unintended design flaw made by the developers. In this case, a USER CREATED neutral supply depot was not in place on the map. It missing is not a bug but an INTENDED(whether known or not) edit. BLocking off a ramp is not a bug, it is aprt of the game, it can happen on the official blizzard ladder, it can happen in official games where there is no neutral supply depot. If anything, the neutral supply depot is the 'bug' and shouldnt even be there in the first place as it was crated to dampen down zerg tears, tears that no longer exist. All this doesnt change the fact that nestea played like ass.
It's OK if you use "bug" as a general sense, as in an error in the system. Remember the original of "bug" been referred to computer error was due to that a bug caused a system failure, which is more like saying "shit happens" than your definition.
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Funny how some people blame Byun for "abusing a bug" when he himself says he checked several VODs to confirm that the depot was indeed removed. Since several games was played and no one complained (or the depot was put in again) wouldn't it be pretty normal to assume that it was an intended change? The fact is Byun actually studied the map and now people are angry that he did. Ridiculous.
I was cheering for Nestea btw.
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On July 14 2012 05:17 Prime Directive wrote:
There are multiple reasons why GSL might have decided to remove it but it doesn't explain why Prime and Byun never asked the question in the first place.
Maybe they should, but it was not their job to ask everything Gom did. They might assumed it was properly done and didn't bother. Do YOU question every odd thing your boss do at work?
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On July 14 2012 05:17 Prime Directive wrote:
There are multiple reasons why GSL might have decided to remove it but it doesn't explain why Prime and Byun never asked the question in the first place.
you gotta be trolling at this point dude. if there are multiple good reasons why GOM would have changed the map, it wasn't obvious to almost anyone what exactly had happened, and there is very good reason to suggest that neither Prime nor Byun knew it was a bug... then why would they have thought to ask?
you literally explained why they never asked IN THAT POST. they probably never asked because they trust GOM can do their jobs. and that STILL doesn't mean that they are required in any way to report it.
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On July 14 2012 04:50 Prime Directive wrote:
1. Report the obvious bug to GSL so that the depot can be reinstated as it should be
2. Keep the knowledge to yourself and abuse the bug to attempt to win a round vs. Nestea
Number 2 is clearly the wrong decision for a professional to make. At least one that wants to be considered a professional. GSL messed up, but the fans and players should help keep things like this from happening. We do that all the time here on TL.
Considering he didn't break any rules and it got him a win, I'd say #2 is the absolute right decision for a professional to make. I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise. He's paid to win Starcraft 2 games, not babysit GOM and make sure their tournament is being run properly. It lies with the map makers and GOM to find these mistakes, not the players. The absolute last line of defense was NesTea/IM when he noticed the bug was going to affect him adversely, but it really shouldn't make it that far.
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On July 14 2012 05:20 Kerence wrote:
Funny how some people blame Byun for "abusing a bug" when he himself says he checked several VODs to confirm that the depot was indeed removed. Since several games was played and no one complained (or the depot was put in again) wouldn't it be pretty normal to assume that it was an intended change? The fact is Byun actually studied the map and now people are angry that he did. Ridiculous.
I was cheering for Nestea btw.
People blaming byun for this are basically dumb and not worth paying attention to for exactly the reasons you are describing. I'm not even sure why this thread is even open anymore, there is nothing worth discussing anymore.
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On July 14 2012 05:31 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 05:20 Kerence wrote:
Funny how some people blame Byun for "abusing a bug" when he himself says he checked several VODs to confirm that the depot was indeed removed. Since several games was played and no one complained (or the depot was put in again) wouldn't it be pretty normal to assume that it was an intended change? The fact is Byun actually studied the map and now people are angry that he did. Ridiculous.
I was cheering for Nestea btw. People blaming byun for this are basically dumb and not worth paying attention to for exactly the reasons you are describing. I'm not even sure why this thread is even open anymore, there is nothing worth discussing anymore.
Couldn't agree more. Mod can close this now.
What should be duscussed is already discussed.
1. GOM/mapmaker messed up. It is primarily at their fault.
2. Part of the community feels Byun should have reported GOM instead of taking advantage of missing depot.
3. From number of posts, probably more than half of the community feels Byun did nothing wrong. He merely tried to win a match as a progamer.
4. Opinion on whether there should be a neutral depot at ramp or not is divided between Zerg players and Terran players.
5. Regardless of the side you take, community agrees this kind of incident shouldn't happen again.
I don't know if we can add anything to this exploding thread. It did its job.
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Some thing should be added in the op about spewing "Opinion" and rather to use the purpose of this thread. Respect or disrespect for ppl who involved to show the feelings of the community or call for action of some sort. Not that I have any of those on mind but thats why this thread serves a purpose.
Like stating byun is a bad guy or not a bad guy-doesnt matter.
Saying nestea would have lost any way- doesnt matter
Facts are there was a bug in the game, it caused a loss and the series is tainted except im and nestea took the loss which puts an end to it all. Personally I would like more statemtns from byun and gom officials reguarding issue cause it really is horrible what happend and ppl defending byun saying he isnt shady, keep in mind he did match fix and here is the transcript between him and coca after coca was up 5 base to two , aroudn 50 suppy to 160. The conversation ensues and coca forfiets a won game for byun to play another and win to get code a seed.
Byun: fuck fuck
Coca: Trap card!
Byun: I got dominated fuck
Coca: You have to put down a planetary. I have 3 expansions.
Byun: No it's not that. Mutas
Byun: Leave fuck fuck fuck
Coca: I surrender
Byun: Let's go to a third game
Coca: ok. gg
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On July 14 2012 06:20 PastaJoePolice wrote:
Some thing should be added in the op about spewing "Opinion" and rather to use the purpose of this thread. Respect or disrespect for ppl who involved to show the feelings of the community or call for action of some sort. Not that I have any of those on mind but thats why this thread serves a purpose.
Like stating byun is a bad guy or not a bad guy-doesnt matter.
Saying nestea would have lost any way- doesnt matter
Facts are there was a bug in the game, it caused a loss and the series is tainted except im and nestea took the loss which puts an end to it all. Personally I would like more statemtns from byun and gom officials reguarding issue cause it really is horrible what happend and ppl defending byun saying he isnt shady, keep in mind he did match fix and here is the transcript between him and coca after coca was up 5 base to two , aroudn 50 suppy to 160. The conversation ensues and coca forfiets a won game for byun to play another and win to get code a seed.
Byun: fuck fuck
Coca: Trap card!
Byun: I got dominated fuck
Coca: You have to put down a planetary. I have 3 expansions.
Byun: No it's not that. Mutas
Byun: Leave fuck fuck fuck
Coca: I surrender
Byun: Let's go to a third game
Coca: ok. gg
You should add this to your list:
What happened between Byun and Coca - doesn't matter
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^Wasnt an attack. Its jsut the past history of a guy who ppl are complaining about doing osme thing shadey, Rather then have pointless opinions based off emotion and no fact I thought i'd throw taht in there, as evidence for a claim does... Trust me, Im on neithers side, Im a tea fan and sad but gom really messed up on this one. I really would like more statements made on situation from players and gom officials.
RETRIBUTION!!
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On July 14 2012 06:20 PastaJoePolice wrote:
Some thing should be added in the op about spewing "Opinion" and rather to use the purpose of this thread. Respect or disrespect for ppl who involved to show the feelings of the community or call for action of some sort. Not that I have any of those on mind but thats why this thread serves a purpose.
Like stating byun is a bad guy or not a bad guy-doesnt matter.
Saying nestea would have lost any way- doesnt matter
Facts are there was a bug in the game, it caused a loss and the series is tainted except im and nestea took the loss which puts an end to it all. Personally I would like more statemtns from byun and gom officials reguarding issue cause it really is horrible what happend and ppl defending byun saying he isnt shady, keep in mind he did match fix and here is the transcript between him and coca after coca was up 5 base to two , aroudn 50 suppy to 160. The conversation ensues and coca forfiets a won game for byun to play another and win to get code a seed.
Byun: fuck fuck
Coca: Trap card!
Byun: I got dominated fuck
Coca: You have to put down a planetary. I have 3 expansions.
Byun: No it's not that. Mutas
Byun: Leave fuck fuck fuck
Coca: I surrender
Byun: Let's go to a third game
Coca: ok. gg
What does the Coca/Byun incident have to do with this?
+ Show Spoiler +Also that was the most piece of shit thing for you to do.....
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IF byun know, shouldnt nestea know as well? but thats beside the point, you're all just hating on byun for the sake of hating. im a nestea fan, but it is clear byun deserved to win this series
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On July 14 2012 05:30 monkybone wrote:
There is no player obligation to inform GOM about this. It's GOM's responsibility alone, Byun simply profited from their mistake. If anything it shows a keen eye for opportunity.
Lmfao "a keen eye for opportunity"... really? Well a scumbag who assaults a helpless women and snatches her purse also has a keen eye for opportunity. Just an extreme example, to show that some things are still wrong even if there is the "opportunity", I am not saying that Byun is a scumbag or criminal or something like that.
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EPT
