EPTI have nothing against Byun though nor regret for Nestea.
[Spoilers] GSL Metropolis Neutral Depot Situation - Page 13
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
I have nothing against Byun though nor regret for Nestea. | ||
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:01 0neder wrote: Honestly, if SC2's game design didn't need such a band-aid OR battle.net was competent, this wouldn't be an issue. Either way, it's sad this was even possible. I have nothing against Byun though nor regret for Nestea. Well alot of people argue that it isn't really needed and that the rampblock is a cheese on level with the 6 pool. It could be argued that with the added queen range it could actually be removed to force zergs to be more active in their defence and be vary. The new queens have allowed zergs to be alot more slacking on their defence. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
IMO, if zergs get a free unit that stops all all-ins (queen), then making them patrol a drone is the least they could do | ||
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SnowFox2ne1
United States52 Posts
Call it dishonorable or what you like, but if 6 queen or some other strat gave you a rediculous advantage; why would you not use it? I would rather get a 10% win rate for a month than a 35% win rate for 3 months. Blizzard will have a faster reaction to a bigger difference in winrate. I was kind of hoping that Terran would get demolished in GSL, so they would take a longer look at the change, the fact that Byun has been able to do well everything considered; gives people an excuse to ignore it. GSL is designed so that you have a lot of time to prepare, and honestly isn't very good for talking balance. Same with GSTL, just because you have someone to snipe a certain player, doesn't mean it should be talked about in the balance discussion or in the numbers. This game has far too many disqualifying factors when it comes to statistics. How much variation and ability to have a high skill cap should be the things we focus on. This is why Terran have had some domination early on; because when a race has almost endless micro capabilities, it really shows when a player like MMA is on top of his game with insane multitasking. Of course the other races have learned to deal with this kind of thing, and the always changing meta game. tl;dr A win is a win when it comes to tournaments. It was their mistake putting it in the map to begin with. If blizzard adressed the issue in the game to begin with, there would be no problems... | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On July 13 2012 00:33 IdrA wrote: byun is most definitely the bad guy. it does not matter if nestea was going to lose anyway, he probably was, and it doesnt matter if that version of the map was available for practice, although if it was nestea should have brought it up beforehand. the bunker block is something that has been actively prevented on every map for the last year of competition. it is something that the community has collectively decided is unfair and the maps for every legitimate tournament have blocked it since, including every other version of metropolis. for him to see that and plan on using it is utterly fucked up. its the same thing as pushing a guy down and kicking him in the balls because you realize the ref isnt looking. the only reason ramp blocking isnt explicitly banned in rules is because the community would get stupid about "banning a strategy" and its easily dealt with with map editting. I was wondering if IdrA would post on this, and I more or less agree. I find it disturbing that Byun would hide something of this nature. If it was someone who didn't just recover from a previous scandal (the Byun/Coca one, if a reader doesn't know), then there would be less scrutiny. "you probably shouldn't have done that." But now it's strike # 2. It's all the more ironic that he would notice this during a game vs Coca. I don't think Byun deserves any official punishment, but a rule of thumb should probably be put into place: "if you notice something is wrong with map, don't hide it." Wording it that way, I kinda thought such a rule already existed. As to NesTea, maybe he doesn't like making official complaints, maybe he was flustered. Maybe some random thought told him: "I'm better than Byun and this doesn't really matter," only to have that completely blow up in his face. Who knows? It's really impossible to prove who would have won, one way or the other, but I think given the overall performance (I didn't see any of tonight's games, but reading the comments of others, and knowing the final score), Byun would have won anyway. Edit: Also, it's GOM's fault too/their mapmaker person, but that should go without saying, yet I feel someone will "remind" me | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:07 Sumadin wrote: Well alot of people argue that it isn't really needed and that the rampblock is a cheese on level with the 6 pool. It could be argued that with the added queen range it could actually be removed to force zergs to be more active in their defence and be vary. The new queens have allowed zergs to be alot more slacking on their defence. I wrote it before, but I think bigger problem here is the SCV movement inconsistency during construction. I don't mind not having neutral depot there AS LONG AS SCV movement is predictable and Zerg player can respond with a reason. Currently, SCV movement looks random, so there is no "correct" response given a situation after bunkers are up. Random number generator could move a SCV to narrow position where Zerg player cannot reach, or it might decide to move it to open space. Everything else in game seems "deterministic" while this looks totally random. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 13 2012 00:33 IdrA wrote: byun is most definitely the bad guy. it does not matter if nestea was going to lose anyway, he probably was, and it doesnt matter if that version of the map was available for practice, although if it was nestea should have brought it up beforehand. the bunker block is something that has been actively prevented on every map for the last year of competition. it is something that the community has collectively decided is unfair and the maps for every legitimate tournament have blocked it since, including every other version of metropolis. for him to see that and plan on using it is utterly fucked up. its the same thing as pushing a guy down and kicking him in the balls because you realize the ref isnt looking. the only reason ramp blocking isnt explicitly banned in rules is because the community would get stupid about "banning a strategy" and its easily dealt with with map editting. I did not think of it that way and the preplanning does put a wrinkle into my views byun's strategy for the match up. It is one thing to take advantage of an situtation that comes up during a match, like your opponent's keyboard or mouse malfunctioning. No one would has a problem with that. But pre-planning to use a feature that puts your opponent at a disadvantage, that you know has been removed from every other map, is a little to cut throat for my liking. It it had come up on only that match, he had spotted that the depot was gone and then quickly used the bunker block, that would be different. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:17 Orek wrote: I wrote it before, but I think bigger problem here is the SCV movement inconsistency during construction. I don't mind not having neutral depot there AS LONG AS SCV movement is predictable and Zerg player can respond with a reason. Currently, SCV movement looks random, so there is no "correct" response given a situation after bunkers are up. Random number generator could move a SCV to narrow position where Zerg player cannot reach, or it might decide to move it to open space. Everything else in game seems "deterministic" while this looks totally random. That would introduce a new form of map imbalance. If you have the SCV at a predictable spot, then there will be spawn locations where the SCV will always be under threat of getting killed. There HAS to be the movement or else there will be cases where a Terran will just lose because he can't make a barracks, or even the supply depot | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:20 ohampatu wrote: Welp. 13 pages in. still blaming Byun, go figure What? I thought those guys were intentionally trolling to raise awareness of this thread. Were they not? | ||
Falling
Canada11510 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:19 NEEDZMOAR wrote: relatives to murder victims are such cry babies lol during middle ages, ww2 and the reign of the red khmers people died in horrible ways, way more horrible than getting shot. jesus christ. poor africans working at banana plantations and cotton plantations and with toxic shit are such cry babies lol back in the 18th century people usually died at the age of 44 ... jesus christ inb4 people dont understand sarcasm yes this is VERY exaggerated and in no way similar events except in one way it is and I was obviously typing this to show Griffith` how stupid his comment is and how little sense it makes. If you need that, then maybe your analogy was very silly and not very helpful at all... | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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CableSCES
United States367 Posts
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:19 NEEDZMOAR wrote: relatives to murder victims are such cry babies lol during middle ages, ww2 and the reign of the red khmers people died in horrible ways, way more horrible than getting shot. jesus christ. poor africans working at banana plantations and cotton plantations and with toxic shit are such cry babies lol back in the 18th century people usually died at the age of 44 ... jesus christ inb4 people dont understand sarcasm yes this is VERY exaggerated and in no way similar events except in one way it is and I was obviously typing this to show Griffith` how stupid his comment is and how little sense it makes. you thought that was bad? i had to live in a folded up newspaper on the side of the road! my whole family fit in there and we got along just nicely without neutral supply depots! | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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jnd
Czech Republic915 Posts
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:16 Ansinjunger wrote: I was wondering if IdrA would post on this, and I more or less agree. I find it disturbing that Byun would hide something of this nature. If it was someone who didn't just recover from a previous scandal (the Byun/Coca one, if a reader doesn't know), then there would be less scrutiny. "you probably shouldn't have done that." But now it's strike # 2. It's all the more ironic that he would notice this during a game vs Coca. I don't think Byun deserves any official punishment, but a rule of thumb should probably be put into place: "if you notice something is wrong with map, don't hide it." Wording it that way, I kinda thought such a rule already existed. As to NesTea, maybe he doesn't like making official complaints, maybe he was flustered. Maybe some random thought told him: "I'm better than Byun and this doesn't really matter," only to have that completely blow up in his face. Who knows? It's really impossible to prove who would have won, one way or the other, but I think given the overall performance (I didn't see any of tonight's games, but reading the comments of others, and knowing the final score), Byun would have won anyway. Edit: Also, it's GOM's fault too/their mapmaker person, but that should go without saying, yet I feel someone will "remind" me I find it very weird that Byun is somehow the player that gets the blame for this. By the logic you people are using, every single person who played on metropolis this season should have actually mentioned it to GOM. Metropolis has been played about what, 12 times so far this season? 12 times games have been played on it and not a single player has reported that there is a neutral supply depot lacking? As a pro player you WILL notice a neutral supply depot lacking. If this far into the season not a single player mentioned anything, then it is very very unreasonable to blame Byun and Byun alone when he actually uses the strategy a neutral supply depot was supposed to prevent. If you're going to blame a player, blame every single player that has played on Metropolis this season. Which of course would be stupid, because the blame is fully on GOM and the mapmakers. It was an honest mistake, which can always happen. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:36 Fragile51 wrote: I find it very weird that Byun is somehow the player that gets the blame for this. By the logic you people are using, every single person who played on metropolis this season should have actually mentioned it to GOM. Metropolis has been played about what, 12 times so far this season? 12 times games have been played on it and not a single player has reported that there is a neutral supply depot lacking? As a pro player you WILL notice a neutral supply depot lacking. If this far into the season not a single player mentioned anything, then it is very very unreasonable to blame Byun and Byun alone when he actually uses the strategy a neutral supply depot was supposed to prevent. If you're going to blame a player, blame every single player that has played on Metropolis this season. Which of course would be stupid, because the blame is fully on GOM and the mapmakers. It was an honest mistake, which can always happen. Dat Logic. You wrote what i have been trying to imply forever, in a much more neat way. The only good KR progamer by all these peoples standards is Byun. | ||
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