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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 04 2012 20:30 Graviton wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:25 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:21 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:20 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:17 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:03 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 19:59 tomatriedes wrote:
Didn't someone post a screenshot of 4KWarden himself calling someone a faggot? Anyone up for writing to 4K and their sponsors(http://www.four-kings.com/partners) and telling them how we don't approve of his homophobic language etc? Go ahead, but the most that warden would get is a slap on the wrist, for a couple reasons. First, he wasn't targeting someone gay and calling them a faggot because he knew they were gay. Also, it's a lot more socially acceptable to say "faggot" because the definition of faggot has been blurred recently, since a lot of people are using it to mean "something annoying" rather than a "homosexual person". A large amount of people who use nigger as a sort of reference like 'mate'. Does that make it any less racist? Don't use your own inherent homophobic bias to justify a blatant double standard, one that runs rampant through out this community. What the fuck is wrong with you? I simply said that it's more socially acceptable to say faggot than it is to say a racial slur. I'm not homophobic, stop putting words in my mouth. Oh, okay, where you come from it's more socially acceptable, thus less offensive to homosexuals? Jesus Christ. The meaning being blurred makes it no less offensive to some. Put some more words in my mouth, considering i didn't say that. The backlash for saying faggot will be a lot less since it's more socially acceptable. Whether it's less offensive to homosexuals or not is irrelevant. The point is that there is a larger group of people that think saying "faggot" is okay which will make the consequences less severe. Funny, I thought the problem here was that the word could be offensive to some people. The only people who would be offended are (most likely) a portion of homosexuals. a huge amount of people are against using racial slurs, whether they are part of that race or not. This is why the backlash would be greater against destiny (calling an asian an asian racial slur, a huge group find it offensive and complain about it, people within razer/quantic who are complained to find it a big deal) than it would be against warden (calling someone a faggot without knowing whether or not they are homosexual, a tiny group of people find it offensive and complain, sponsors/4k who are complained to find it to be not as big of a deal) It's alright to be bigoted, or not care about said bigotry to the same extent, as long as it's not as big an issue as racism, because that's taboo, but other forms of discrimination are not considered such. Gotcha.
lol
He's saying it's not okay to be bigoted--but the backlash would be less severe because western society is more homophobic than racist. It's not that he thinks there should be less punishment, he's saying that society would be less likely to be upset since the US is very homophobic and so they are more likely to be okay with homophobic behavior.
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why this happened ? weak people who can't live their life
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On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in?
Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name.
It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right.
Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say.
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On May 04 2012 20:33 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:30 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:25 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:21 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:20 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:17 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:03 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 19:59 tomatriedes wrote:
Didn't someone post a screenshot of 4KWarden himself calling someone a faggot? Anyone up for writing to 4K and their sponsors(http://www.four-kings.com/partners) and telling them how we don't approve of his homophobic language etc? Go ahead, but the most that warden would get is a slap on the wrist, for a couple reasons. First, he wasn't targeting someone gay and calling them a faggot because he knew they were gay. Also, it's a lot more socially acceptable to say "faggot" because the definition of faggot has been blurred recently, since a lot of people are using it to mean "something annoying" rather than a "homosexual person". A large amount of people who use nigger as a sort of reference like 'mate'. Does that make it any less racist? Don't use your own inherent homophobic bias to justify a blatant double standard, one that runs rampant through out this community. What the fuck is wrong with you? I simply said that it's more socially acceptable to say faggot than it is to say a racial slur. I'm not homophobic, stop putting words in my mouth. Oh, okay, where you come from it's more socially acceptable, thus less offensive to homosexuals? Jesus Christ. The meaning being blurred makes it no less offensive to some. Put some more words in my mouth, considering i didn't say that. The backlash for saying faggot will be a lot less since it's more socially acceptable. Whether it's less offensive to homosexuals or not is irrelevant. The point is that there is a larger group of people that think saying "faggot" is okay which will make the consequences less severe. Funny, I thought the problem here was that the word could be offensive to some people. The only people who would be offended are (most likely) a portion of homosexuals. a huge amount of people are against using racial slurs, whether they are part of that race or not. This is why the backlash would be greater against destiny (calling an asian an asian racial slur, a huge group find it offensive and complain about it, people within razer/quantic who are complained to find it a big deal) than it would be against warden (calling someone a faggot without knowing whether or not they are homosexual, a tiny group of people find it offensive and complain, sponsors/4k who are complained to find it to be not as big of a deal) It's alright to be bigoted, or not care about said bigotry to the same extent, as long as it's not as big an issue as racism, because that's taboo, but other forms of discrimination are not considered such. Gotcha. lol He's saying it's not okay to be bigoted--but the backlash would be less severe because western society is more homophobic than racist. It's not that he thinks there should be less punishment, he's saying that society would be less likely to be upset since the US is very homophobic and so they are more likely to be okay with homophobic behavior.
His initial posts came across as homophobic to some degree. I was using his posts as a means to demonstrate my point. Thanks for missing it.
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Was there ever a response to why Destiny's stream was unlisted, where Idra's was not?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441
Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them.
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On May 04 2012 20:36 Warpath wrote:Was there ever a response to why Destiny's stream was unlisted, where Idra's was not? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441Show nested quote +Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them.
Well he's not a pro because he's no longer on a team 
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On May 04 2012 20:36 Warpath wrote:Was there ever a response to why Destiny's stream was unlisted, where Idra's was not? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441Show nested quote +Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them.
It was earlier in the thread, Desinty was unlisted for the way he spoke to one of the TL mods, not because of this issue.
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Netherlands1104 Posts
On May 04 2012 20:36 Warpath wrote:Was there ever a response to why Destiny's stream was unlisted, where Idra's was not? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441Show nested quote +Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them.
Clearly discrimination. I'd start mailing TL's sponsors.
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I think Destiny got issues.
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On May 04 2012 20:30 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:
What does acting professionally even means ?
I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company.
Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow.
Some people still have a free mind, yet... Acting professionally means acting within acceptable limits, regardless of whether or not you agree with them. I don't know your job but I would guess you don't work in a public setting or at least don't yell abuse in front of your customers. However Destiny was a very, very public representative of Quantic and Razer. I'm a scientist. If I go to a conference and think someone's research is stupid then I might talk to them about it and point out where I disagree. But if I turn around and call them a fucking retard then I'd be in trouble with my boss because I'm there representing my employer and my research sponsor.
I've seen far too much conference and Ph.D defense to disagree when you say you can't clearly insinuate someone is stupid in front of everyone, and stay untouched by that.
Acting professionlly means acting within acceptable limits, the problem is that we probably have not set the limits at the same point.
Stating that has the same public significancy that the CEO of Quantic (for what is worth) or Razer in front of a press conference is really far fetch. Even in this case, I bet you that the customers really don't watch that and by their products only for their products, not for the personnality of their CEO, and even less from the one of Destiny... You should stop thinking that the world is lead by esport. lol.
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On May 04 2012 20:35 BXiT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in? Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name. It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right. Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say.
Rofl. You compare swearing in general with calling someone "gook"?
And since you work at such a tolerant and famous IT-company, lets hear the name of that IT-company. And lets send a mail asking them if it is accetable that you call people "gook" at your work place to people doing a better job than you, shall we?
It's easy to hide behind a keyboard and computer screen and pretend that it's all jolly and good at your work place without actually giving any information.
Now give me the name of the company you work at, I will send them an e-mail and then post the response here at TL, fair enough?
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On May 04 2012 20:32 BXiT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:25 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Destiny was not attacked for swearing, he was attacked for being racist. He wasn't fired for saying fuck, he was fired for saying gook in a tone where he believed the opponent was undeserving and in doing so made the idea that being undeserving of your accomplishments is the same as being Asian. (Which is racist) It has nothing to do with whether or not he was being offensive. This kind of thing that you defined as racist actions really aren't. I think you should study again some history to see what actual racism is. It's not with this kind of behavior that we will go back to these dark dark ages. Furthermore, it seems really far fetch to judge somebody philosophy over insults on a game. Remember, if you are to quick to judge somebody, most likely wrongly, somebody will do the same do you. So in the system of value, I hope that you are really really cautious. Personally I know I don't want to live in this system of though. 21th century...
There is no judging, merely observing and defining. He acted racist--should we care? Probably not. But enough people do that it seems relevant to have an opinion either or. But simply because it doesn't seem offensive or serious doesn't mean it stops being racist.
Slave owners used to think that what they were doing was actually for the benefit of black slaves in america. Shelter, a job, food, etc... There were many who thought it was the right thing. Even the Nazi's thought they were bettering the world by getting rid of the main threat of civilization. How much you "mean it" doesn't really matter. That you did it is what matters.
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im glad this happened, we dont rly need a player that disrespectful on any reasonable team.
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On May 04 2012 20:38 Darkong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:36 Warpath wrote:Was there ever a response to why Destiny's stream was unlisted, where Idra's was not? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. It was earlier in the thread, Desinty was unlisted for the way he spoke to one of the TL mods, not because of this issue.
That's a double standard on the part of TL, especially when their own mod was acting just as out of line as Destiny was.
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On May 04 2012 20:36 Graviton wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:33 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:30 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:25 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:21 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:20 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:17 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:03 Corrosive wrote:
[quote]
Go ahead, but the most that warden would get is a slap on the wrist, for a couple reasons. First, he wasn't targeting someone gay and calling them a faggot because he knew they were gay. Also, it's a lot more socially acceptable to say "faggot" because the definition of faggot has been blurred recently, since a lot of people are using it to mean "something annoying" rather than a "homosexual person". A large amount of people who use nigger as a sort of reference like 'mate'. Does that make it any less racist? Don't use your own inherent homophobic bias to justify a blatant double standard, one that runs rampant through out this community. What the fuck is wrong with you? I simply said that it's more socially acceptable to say faggot than it is to say a racial slur. I'm not homophobic, stop putting words in my mouth. Oh, okay, where you come from it's more socially acceptable, thus less offensive to homosexuals? Jesus Christ. The meaning being blurred makes it no less offensive to some. Put some more words in my mouth, considering i didn't say that. The backlash for saying faggot will be a lot less since it's more socially acceptable. Whether it's less offensive to homosexuals or not is irrelevant. The point is that there is a larger group of people that think saying "faggot" is okay which will make the consequences less severe. Funny, I thought the problem here was that the word could be offensive to some people. The only people who would be offended are (most likely) a portion of homosexuals. a huge amount of people are against using racial slurs, whether they are part of that race or not. This is why the backlash would be greater against destiny (calling an asian an asian racial slur, a huge group find it offensive and complain about it, people within razer/quantic who are complained to find it a big deal) than it would be against warden (calling someone a faggot without knowing whether or not they are homosexual, a tiny group of people find it offensive and complain, sponsors/4k who are complained to find it to be not as big of a deal) It's alright to be bigoted, or not care about said bigotry to the same extent, as long as it's not as big an issue as racism, because that's taboo, but other forms of discrimination are not considered such. Gotcha. lol He's saying it's not okay to be bigoted--but the backlash would be less severe because western society is more homophobic than racist. It's not that he thinks there should be less punishment, he's saying that society would be less likely to be upset since the US is very homophobic and so they are more likely to be okay with homophobic behavior. His initial posts came across as homophobic to some degree. I was using his posts as a means to demonstrate my point. Thanks for missing it.
Can you explain how my posts came across as homophobic when the first thing i said about "faggot" was that warden was using it in a non-homophobic context, and then explaining that most people don't use it in a homophobic context anymore? Seems like you're just trying to bait out angry responses from people.
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On May 04 2012 20:33 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:30 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:25 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:21 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:20 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:17 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:03 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 19:59 tomatriedes wrote:
Didn't someone post a screenshot of 4KWarden himself calling someone a faggot? Anyone up for writing to 4K and their sponsors(http://www.four-kings.com/partners) and telling them how we don't approve of his homophobic language etc? Go ahead, but the most that warden would get is a slap on the wrist, for a couple reasons. First, he wasn't targeting someone gay and calling them a faggot because he knew they were gay. Also, it's a lot more socially acceptable to say "faggot" because the definition of faggot has been blurred recently, since a lot of people are using it to mean "something annoying" rather than a "homosexual person". A large amount of people who use nigger as a sort of reference like 'mate'. Does that make it any less racist? Don't use your own inherent homophobic bias to justify a blatant double standard, one that runs rampant through out this community. What the fuck is wrong with you? I simply said that it's more socially acceptable to say faggot than it is to say a racial slur. I'm not homophobic, stop putting words in my mouth. Oh, okay, where you come from it's more socially acceptable, thus less offensive to homosexuals? Jesus Christ. The meaning being blurred makes it no less offensive to some. Put some more words in my mouth, considering i didn't say that. The backlash for saying faggot will be a lot less since it's more socially acceptable. Whether it's less offensive to homosexuals or not is irrelevant. The point is that there is a larger group of people that think saying "faggot" is okay which will make the consequences less severe. Funny, I thought the problem here was that the word could be offensive to some people. The only people who would be offended are (most likely) a portion of homosexuals. a huge amount of people are against using racial slurs, whether they are part of that race or not. This is why the backlash would be greater against destiny (calling an asian an asian racial slur, a huge group find it offensive and complain about it, people within razer/quantic who are complained to find it a big deal) than it would be against warden (calling someone a faggot without knowing whether or not they are homosexual, a tiny group of people find it offensive and complain, sponsors/4k who are complained to find it to be not as big of a deal) It's alright to be bigoted, or not care about said bigotry to the same extent, as long as it's not as big an issue as racism, because that's taboo, but other forms of discrimination are not considered such. Gotcha. lol He's saying it's not okay to be bigoted--but the backlash would be less severe because western society is more homophobic than racist. It's not that he thinks there should be less punishment, he's saying that society would be less likely to be upset since the US is very homophobic and so they are more likely to be okay with homophobic behavior.
I Still don't think the word is as acceptable in the US as he seems to think:
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6579408
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-13/sports/29992409_1_gay-slur-referee-bryant
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On May 04 2012 20:39 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:38 iTsCaRNaGe wrote:On May 04 2012 20:36 Warpath wrote:Was there ever a response to why Destiny's stream was unlisted, where Idra's was not? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. Well he's not a pro because he's no longer on a team He makes all his money from the game; therefore he is pro.
I guess I should have made it more obvious I was joking.
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Well done everyone. Making a player many people love leave a team that supported him simply because you were too thick to go watch another stream. I'm not really a Destiny fan at all but this is ridiculous. Congrats everyone
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On May 04 2012 20:09 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:04 Karak wrote:On May 04 2012 19:50 Kustom wrote:
So, when idra rages and insults the other player it's fine, he's not a bad guy behind the scenes, but when it's destiny it's a shame just because he used a "racist" word?
Don't get me wrong, racism shouldn't be allowed, but we're all humans, and we all got our temper, and using the ban-hammer and emailing the sponsors thus hurting the whole community on the behave of a single player is short minded. Destiny doesn't say it cause he lost his temper once or twice in the heat of the moment. He says it, defends it afterwards and refuses to apologize. There's quite the difference. It's intentional and without discretion. And yes, there is a big difference between just generic insults and racism, although I think any sponsored player would be wise not to rage at people. If you get mad from destiny calling you a nigger, you are taking language too seriously since its not actually racist and you need to desensitize yourself to this stuff; if you are offended you are weak If you don't get mad from destiny calling you a nigger, it shows that he is right and his philosophy is working and that he is spearheading the movement to "take the word back" to make nigger a general insult that won't offend black people anymore lose-lose
Again, I've said in lots of posts that arguing the merits of whether or not words should be offensive is completely irrelevant. And I have nothing personally against Destiny. People just can't be doing this stuff if you want sponsorships and "esports" to grow. It's just not tenable. Whether or not you agree is your own decision, but if people are on a team, they have no choice.
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EPT
