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Keep this civil, guys |
I feel that everyone lost in the end
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On May 04 2012 20:46 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:35 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in? Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name. It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right. Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say. Oh so your company does actually care how you curse? You can't simply throw offensive words here and there willy nilly--it has to fit the situation at hand. It's kind of like, you need to keep the language appropriate for the current situation you are in. You don't call your boss who gave you a raise an ass monkey, but you can call your co-worker a faggot, but only when you are in having a lighthearted exchange where you understand yourself as being in the right.
You should realize something if you look at the country we both are from. It really is not the reason why I can do that, it is mainly because I'm surrounded by cool people, but just try to envision that your values are not universal.
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United States6168 Posts
On May 04 2012 20:09 Hren wrote:
Has mailing sponsors ever occured previous to the Orb incident? And does it happen in other gaming communities as well? I`m curious, since the whole phenomenon seems pretty new to me.
I assure you, this happens all over the sports and entertainment worlds. Ask Don Imus or Rush Limbaugh. (One I don't know or care about, the other I thought was amusing until I realized that he was both extremely partisan and doing the kind of out-of-context editing that can make anyone seem an idiot and make him seem right.) Also, this has affected stand up comedians, professional sports teams (there's a reason they're the Houston Astros, not the Houston Colt .45s), and entire professional organizations. (I miss the Winston Cup name, even if it was derived from a cancer causing product and I myself am a Marlboro/Camel kindof guy.)
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Hey man, some words are just WRONG.
But rape, that's just part of the language, man. It's just, like, really funny.
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On May 04 2012 20:46 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:35 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in? Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name. It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right. Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say. Oh so your company does actually care how you curse? You can't simply throw offensive words here and there willy nilly--it has to fit the situation at hand. It's kind of like, you need to keep the language appropriate for the current situation you are in. You don't call your boss who gave you a raise an ass monkey, but you can call your co-worker a faggot, but only when you are in having a lighthearted exchange where you understand yourself as being in the right.
I disagree. If your co-worker was gay, he would likely be offended. It'd be the same as calling your co-worker a nigger, no matter how lighthearted you try to make it. People use these words in very offensive, specific contexts. Gay bashers call their victims "faggots" the same way racists call blacks "niggers", and I think you should avoid using them in any workplace context.
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On May 04 2012 20:45 Manimal_pro wrote:
why are so many people putting an equal sign between being bigoted and saying "gook" in gamechat. Isn't it clear that destiny is not discriminant against koreans?
Destiny probably isn't a bigot, I'm sure he's friendly and such with Asians. But using a word like gook as an insult is stupid. There are plenty of other ways to insult someone without stooping to using racist terms. I hope one day the community starts treating people who use homophobic slurs like 4KWarden (the guy who reported Destiny) in exactly the same way.
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On May 04 2012 20:45 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:43 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
You realize that you don't get to just magically choose the context of your words right. They have a meaning and a history. You mean a word that for most of its history didn't mean homosexual male?
Is it really too hard to understand that it became an INSULT for that reason, and then now when you use it as an INSULT you're immediately evoking that history in particular? That is the entire reason the word even has any "value" as an insult to begin with.
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On May 04 2012 20:29 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:11 ZenithM wrote:On May 04 2012 19:17 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
I like his announcement. As is typical of him, behind all the trolling and insults, he is pretty reasonable. Leaving for the good of the team was pretty good on his part. Lol don't kid yourself, he got kicked out of the team. His statement was just usual PR stuff to save face. He left his team, he didn't get kicked out. Destiny doesn't care about PR to save face, he's said that hundreds of times. It was an incredibly considerate thing to do on his part as well. Destiny is just such a great guy, really love him.
The PR statement was probably elaborated by both Destiny and Quantic together, they both have more interest in doing it like this, all mannered and shit, than a straight up "gtfo".
It's way better for Destiny's image to quit from his own, as if he has a choice, than to be kicked out by his team with a "We do not support racist behaviors blahblah..."
Likewise, it's better for Quantic if it seemed like an amiable decision, instead of having all the butthurt Destiny fans on the back ("You fired my favorite player, curse you, trash team!!")
I've talked to Mark a lot over the past couple days, and we've come to the decision that it'd be best for both of our relationships for me to step aside from Quantic.
What do you think was said in those discussions? Do you really think the Mark guy was like "Nah, don't mind those haters and continue spouting racist comments everywhere you can, dude, we'll always support you no matter what"?
Don't be naive folks, Destiny got fired, period.
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On May 04 2012 20:44 Darkong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. What defines professional behaviour is what your profession decides is professional behaviour. Your work in an office, presumably, surrounded by co-workers and have a somewhat bantering environment wherein that sort of language is deemed okay. I doubt that any PR people that work there will go out and use that language when interacting with customers/clients and I suspect if you did so while representing the company they'd take a dim view of that. I work more directly with the general public and I would get fired, instantly, for using language like that regardless of whether there was a complaint or not because my boss and the company wouldn't tolerate the poor representation. And that's more what happened with Destiny, he was on his stream, in public, representing his team and sponsors and said what he did, if he was in a more insular team environment with no public stream he might get away with saying stuff like that but he was presenting the public face of the Quantic team.
I can understand that.
From what I know, his teamates, his team and his sponsors never complain about him. So his profession was ok with it, just like mine. Why would you try to impose your work experience to him ?
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On May 04 2012 20:45 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:43 SnuggleZhenya wrote:On May 04 2012 20:40 Corrosive wrote:
Can you explain how my posts came across as homophobic when the first thing i said about "faggot" was that warden was using it in a non-homophobic context, and then explaining that most people don't use it in a homophobic context anymore? Seems like you're just trying to bait out angry responses from people. You realize that you don't get to just magically choose the context of your words right. They have a meaning and a history. You mean a word that for most of its history didn't mean homosexual male?
What does it matter if it had/has another meaning? That still doesn't make it any less offensive as an insult and to imply that it does is pretty damn stupid.
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On May 04 2012 20:19 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 19:52 EatThePath wrote:On May 04 2012 18:29 Incognoto wrote:I can't believe this. I've just lost a huge amount of faith in the community. For the record, I don't have anything against TL moderation. It's their site and they do what they want. I didn't like Destiny's ban, however I don't feel it wasn't justified (read the 10 commandments thing). This is TL's site, if they've had the success they've had up until now it's for a reason. As to what I think about the language, read here. It's beating a dead horse so you can skip it if you want. + Show Spoiler +For the record, I have absolutely no problem with Destiny's racial slurs. At the beginning, when he started using them, I felt that it was too much and I was put off by it. However, Destiny explained his arguments about the use of his language ( here is a youtube video of Destiny having a discussion about this). I then started not minding, because Destiny's arguments made sense. I advise anyone who has a problem with Destiny's language to watch the video. If they're going to have such strong feelings about such a matter than they owe it to everyone to at least listen to a counter-argument. Not doing so is just fucking stale balderdash. Again, it shocks and appalls me that anyone would go so far just to hurt a player who hasn't done anything other than use "offensive" words. It's just incredibly stupid. Let's imagine that we had a homosexual SC2 pro player. Let's just imagine this. Anyone can be incredibly offensive to this player and personally attack him without using a single offensive word. I've put an example in spoilers just to express my point: + Show Spoiler +you little piece of dirt. you're a dog that's what you are, you and whoever you're with. going about, spreading diseases with your strangeness, it's un-natural, it's disgusting, that's all you are. i sincerely hope you and your kind die painful deaths from HIV, the less of you there are the better See what I did there? Not a single swear word was even used yet I said something much more offensive than Destiny has ever said on stream. Now let's take this example: http://i.imgur.com/y8F8n.jpgImagine if instead, it had said "the absolute epitome of being a skill-less fucking fucking idiot, fuck off you dog" If that's what had been said there would have been none of this pointless drama, even though both of expressions mean the same thing. The one thing that annoys me is that no one is going to really change their mind of the issue, yet they're going to refuse to at least hear the other side of the argument. I don't want people to change their minds, I want people to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure that no one who's faced Destiny on the ladder has gone off and killed themselves or broke down to tears after Destiny flamed them. What does disgust the shit out of me are all these hate-driven anti-fans. It absolutely blows my mind. The issue was really a trivial one, and internet white knights just blew things completely out of proportion. Completely out of proportion. I'm shocked and appalled that the community would do such a thing. If you dislike someone then just leave him be. I don't understand why you'd do anything else. Hating a player is against the very principle of esports. The goal here is watch games, be fan-boys, enjoy playing the game, having fun. I dislike Cruncher, that doesn't mean I go out and insult him every single turn I get. That doesn't mean I jump on an occasion I get to email his sponsor and taint his reputation. I was pissed off when he eliminated Idra and Mondragon with cheesy builds, I didn't' muck the forums because I was butt-hurt. I don't go on his stream and insult him. People who have that kind of behavior are basically taking a nice colorful shit on what esports represent. I'm glad TL moderates them. Furthermore, the community isn't here to police players or go on witch hunts. If a player is doing something that could be considered distasteful, the best thing to do is to just email the team (in private, with a calm and reasonable email). The absolute worst thing to do is post about and complain about publicly so that all the hateful idiots can rally around and muck up the forums for reasons that are iffy at best. If warden had a problem with Destiny he should have taken it up to Destiny or Quantic, not start this concentration of idiocy. Immature, that's what it was. Worst part is that I've learned a huge amount of stuff from Destiny, both about Zerg and other topics, yet I've never even heard of warden before this incident. I wonder who actually contributed more to the community? And this is how he's thanked. The worst part is that they didn't even harm Destiny as much as they hoped, but they nearly dealt huge, hurtful blows to Quantic (and all of the good players on Quantic's team). It's appalling. Appalling. I can't repeat this word enough because that's what this situation is. I expected something more intelligent from the community but apparently there's still this hateful part of it that does a lot of damage for almost no good, except provoking this dumb drama. Idra's rivalries are good drama, they interest people. This is fucking retarded. My respect for Destiny sky-rocketed when he left the team because it would be best for everyone. I'll continue to support him more than ever now. But the community just took a huge nose-dive in my esteem. Edit: Now I feel bad for having posted this because no one is even going to read it, preferring to justify their shitty actions with one-liners about how good they are for the community. You seem to be convinced that all this transpired due to the actions of a crowd of internet crusaders who take perverse satisfaction from wielding power against hapless victims of their secret animosity. Have you considered that people might actually have a problem with hate speech, and they take serious action against it to make their community more like they want it to be? Of course I realize that. People have the right to do that. But people should do it intelligently, unlike how it was done in the most recent incident. Unfortunately most people aren't capable of realizing that Destiny wasn't even being racist. Again, that's beside the point.You probably shouldn't bother to be appalled unless you know the precise details of what actually happened and why. Did Razer talk to Quantic? Who then talked to Destiny? Or is the image of sending emails what appalls you, whether or not it had any affect beyond the general commotion? Funnily, this seems to be detailed enough: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t6i9v/destiny_and_quantic_parting_ways/
What's appalling is that Destiny and Quantic parted ways simply because of two words and hundreds of people who want are against social injustice. It's also appalling that people are willing to jeopardize Naniwa, Sase, etc, for something like this. As I've said before, if you truly have a problem with it, that's not the way to deal with. Look at Alex Garfield, EG and Idra. Idra was just as rude as Destiny, Alex put a stop to it, for PR, without having to deal with this incredible pile of shit that was the thread.Since you're so worked up, I assume you value esports, whatever that word means. PR funded professional gaming. Many of us do, and want to see it grow. Many of us won't sacrifice decency, however. I encourage you to reevaluate what is trivial. I encourage you to reevaluate what is trivial as well. As I've said before, the use of certain words doesn't matter, what's really important is the idea of what you're trying to get across to who you're talking to. Yeah, that was rude. Offensive? Indecent? I don't believe so. Coming from someone who was French in the USA when France refused to invade Iraq, and got shit for it. As did my father. Read what I put in spoilers. But I'm going to stop there because this isn't the topic I want to discuss, we have a zombie horse on our hands now. Responded in bold
In case you missed it, I was attacking your righteousness. Clearly, you just disagree about certain things. I should have been more blunt about my subtext: there are a lot of us who think you and your views are wrong. Your disgust is misplaced.
You claim:
-Calling someone a gook, leading to them being offended, isn't offensive.
-More broadly, the use of such language is inconsequential.
If you don't want to talk about communication and language (and culture and prejudice), then suffice to say those are debatable views at best.
I read all of your post, and Destiny's statement. It doesn't address my question to you about the precise details, at all. Your post informs me that you shrug your shoulders at hate language. I won't try to convince you you condone it, but other posters have all but said as much (that they do).
That's the kind of thing a lot of us have a problem with. If you thinking asking Destiny nicely to change his behavior is a good approach, lol. I don't know what the best way to handle these grievances is, but when faced with something intolerable people often do not deliberate at length.
I don't know that anything to endanger Quantic even came out of this. If it did, that's unfortunate. But faulting others for the (unknown) consequences of one's bad behavior does nothing to seek understanding or prevent future mishap. Especially when it involves mischaracterization, speculation, and hyperbole.
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On May 04 2012 20:49 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:46 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:35 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in? Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name. It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right. Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say. Oh so your company does actually care how you curse? You can't simply throw offensive words here and there willy nilly--it has to fit the situation at hand. It's kind of like, you need to keep the language appropriate for the current situation you are in. You don't call your boss who gave you a raise an ass monkey, but you can call your co-worker a faggot, but only when you are in having a lighthearted exchange where you understand yourself as being in the right. I disagree. If your co-worker was gay, he would likely be offended. It'd be the same as calling your co-worker a nigger, no matter how lighthearted you try to make it. People use these words in very offensive, specific contexts. Gay bashers call their victims "faggots" the same way racists call blacks "niggers", and I think you should avoid using them in any workplace context.
In your place of the word maybe. I've got 2 gay friend who are together and doesn't mind AT ALL (from their mouth) when we call somebody or themself faggot. In the context of playing a game, we consider being part of expression friendly frustration. Why can't you accept that people don't always live like you ?
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The SC2 community is slowly starting to become worse than the World of Warcraft community.
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On May 04 2012 20:40 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:33 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:30 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:25 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:21 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:20 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:17 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Graviton wrote:On May 04 2012 20:03 Corrosive wrote:
[quote]
Go ahead, but the most that warden would get is a slap on the wrist, for a couple reasons. First, he wasn't targeting someone gay and calling them a faggot because he knew they were gay. Also, it's a lot more socially acceptable to say "faggot" because the definition of faggot has been blurred recently, since a lot of people are using it to mean "something annoying" rather than a "homosexual person". A large amount of people who use nigger as a sort of reference like 'mate'. Does that make it any less racist? Don't use your own inherent homophobic bias to justify a blatant double standard, one that runs rampant through out this community. What the fuck is wrong with you? I simply said that it's more socially acceptable to say faggot than it is to say a racial slur. I'm not homophobic, stop putting words in my mouth. Oh, okay, where you come from it's more socially acceptable, thus less offensive to homosexuals? Jesus Christ. The meaning being blurred makes it no less offensive to some. Put some more words in my mouth, considering i didn't say that. The backlash for saying faggot will be a lot less since it's more socially acceptable. Whether it's less offensive to homosexuals or not is irrelevant. The point is that there is a larger group of people that think saying "faggot" is okay which will make the consequences less severe. Funny, I thought the problem here was that the word could be offensive to some people. The only people who would be offended are (most likely) a portion of homosexuals. a huge amount of people are against using racial slurs, whether they are part of that race or not. This is why the backlash would be greater against destiny (calling an asian an asian racial slur, a huge group find it offensive and complain about it, people within razer/quantic who are complained to find it a big deal) than it would be against warden (calling someone a faggot without knowing whether or not they are homosexual, a tiny group of people find it offensive and complain, sponsors/4k who are complained to find it to be not as big of a deal) It's alright to be bigoted, or not care about said bigotry to the same extent, as long as it's not as big an issue as racism, because that's taboo, but other forms of discrimination are not considered such. Gotcha. lol He's saying it's not okay to be bigoted--but the backlash would be less severe because western society is more homophobic than racist. It's not that he thinks there should be less punishment, he's saying that society would be less likely to be upset since the US is very homophobic and so they are more likely to be okay with homophobic behavior. I Still don't think the word is as acceptable in the US as he seems to think: http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6579408http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-13/sports/29992409_1_gay-slur-referee-bryant
That maybe true--I don't know enough to be able to have an actual stance on this. But it was just funny to watch you two not actually arguing with each other 
It sounded like
"I think Americans are too homophobic to get upset at the use of faggot"
"You're okay with being homophobic!"
"I just think Americans are naturally homophobic"
"Why should we be homophobic but not racist!"
"I don't think we should be either... but America already is homophobic...."
"You don't like gay people?"
Anyway--just thought I should finally step in to clarify that neither one of you wants for there to be homophobia in society.
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On May 04 2012 20:53 BXiT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:49 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 04 2012 20:46 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:35 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in? Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name. It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right. Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say. Oh so your company does actually care how you curse? You can't simply throw offensive words here and there willy nilly--it has to fit the situation at hand. It's kind of like, you need to keep the language appropriate for the current situation you are in. You don't call your boss who gave you a raise an ass monkey, but you can call your co-worker a faggot, but only when you are in having a lighthearted exchange where you understand yourself as being in the right. I disagree. If your co-worker was gay, he would likely be offended. It'd be the same as calling your co-worker a nigger, no matter how lighthearted you try to make it. People use these words in very offensive, specific contexts. Gay bashers call their victims "faggots" the same way racists call blacks "niggers", and I think you should avoid using them in any workplace context. In your place of the word maybe. I've got 2 gay friend who are together and doesn't mind AT ALL (from their mouth) when we call somebody or themself faggot. In the context of playing a game, we consider being part of expression friendly frustration. Why can't you accept that people don't always live like you ?
Why would you even bother taking that risk when you could just use any other word? I know black people that don't get insulted by the word nigger, but does that mean I am going to be OK with randomly saying nigger from time to time?
Unnecessary. risk.
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On May 04 2012 20:53 BXiT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:49 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 04 2012 20:46 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:35 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in? Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name. It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right. Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say. Oh so your company does actually care how you curse? You can't simply throw offensive words here and there willy nilly--it has to fit the situation at hand. It's kind of like, you need to keep the language appropriate for the current situation you are in. You don't call your boss who gave you a raise an ass monkey, but you can call your co-worker a faggot, but only when you are in having a lighthearted exchange where you understand yourself as being in the right. I disagree. If your co-worker was gay, he would likely be offended. It'd be the same as calling your co-worker a nigger, no matter how lighthearted you try to make it. People use these words in very offensive, specific contexts. Gay bashers call their victims "faggots" the same way racists call blacks "niggers", and I think you should avoid using them in any workplace context. In your place of the word maybe. I've got 2 gay friend who are together and doesn't mind AT ALL (from their mouth) when we call somebody or themself faggot. In the context of playing a game, we consider being part of expression friendly frustration. Why can't you accept that people don't always live like you ?
Didn't Perez Hilton call will.i.am a faggot? And then he got attacked by will.i.am's MANAGER?
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On May 04 2012 20:53 BXiT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:49 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 04 2012 20:46 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:35 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:02 matiK23 wrote:
Wow so a few suspension from games in real, physical actual professional sports equates to getting a gamer fired, or forced to resign from his team. When did e-sports get so big that they can afford to do this? Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional. The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in? Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name. It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right. Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say. Oh so your company does actually care how you curse? You can't simply throw offensive words here and there willy nilly--it has to fit the situation at hand. It's kind of like, you need to keep the language appropriate for the current situation you are in. You don't call your boss who gave you a raise an ass monkey, but you can call your co-worker a faggot, but only when you are in having a lighthearted exchange where you understand yourself as being in the right. I disagree. If your co-worker was gay, he would likely be offended. It'd be the same as calling your co-worker a nigger, no matter how lighthearted you try to make it. People use these words in very offensive, specific contexts. Gay bashers call their victims "faggots" the same way racists call blacks "niggers", and I think you should avoid using them in any workplace context. In your place of the word maybe. I've got 2 gay friend who are together and doesn't mind AT ALL (from their mouth) when we call somebody or themself faggot. In the context of playing a game, we consider being part of expression friendly frustration. Why can't you accept that people don't always live like you ?
Wow you got friends that dun mind being called faggot?*clap*
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On May 04 2012 20:49 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:45 Corrosive wrote:On May 04 2012 20:43 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
You realize that you don't get to just magically choose the context of your words right. They have a meaning and a history. You mean a word that for most of its history didn't mean homosexual male? Is it really too hard to understand that it became an INSULT for that reason, and then now when you use it as an INSULT you're immediately evoking that history in particular? That is the entire reason the word even has any "value" as an insult to begin with. ^
The difference between swearwords that can be used and swearwords that shouldn't be used is that the sole purpose of a word like 'nigger' is to insult a black person. A word like 'fuck', 'asshole', 'nuke' or 'dick' has no such meaning to it and as such can be used without problems. Those words do not insult a particular group of people.
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On May 04 2012 20:54 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 20:53 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:49 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 04 2012 20:46 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:35 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:29 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 20:26 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:19 Zalithian wrote:On May 04 2012 20:18 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 20:16 Lightspeaker wrote:
[quote]
Newsflash: This is "real" and this is by definition "professional". Regardless of how BIG e-sports is it is still a professional career. People take it up as their job and make money out of it, that makes it professional.
The scale of the organisation doesn't mean anything. It is still professional. But unless the people involved start acknowledging that and acting appropriately then it isn't going to grow because it will be dismissed as pathetic and childish and the people involved viewed as acting unprofessionally. What does acting professionally even means ? I swear all the time at work, dress like a hobo, but I'm respected because I do good work. Btw, I work in a pretty famous IT company. Just stop citing common mass mob social behavior as a law of nature that we all have to follow. Some people still have a free mind, yet... Do you call people niggers for doing a better job than you? Well nigger is a bit strong where I live, but the equivalent of pussy or faggot wouldn't be the first. I guess I work with people with a more mature mind on average that this community. I guess the main difference it is far more easier to guess the correct mind of the people saying these kind of words, irl. The point is just that acting professionally does not really means anything, since it is our acting that define what is it. It's not like it is defined by some superior being we should listen to. So if your boss does a good job you call him a faggot or a pussy? Your boss says "here's a raise" you respond "you're fucktard, go die in a fire gook" Is this the mature minded workplace you work in? Did I say something like that ? Don't write words in my name. It's not unlikely that when somebody point out some weakness of my solutions to a problem, I respond with a gentle faggot. More likely when I'm still right. Maturity is not defined by your langage, but by the awareness you have. The ability you have to understand what somebody really means, the ability to put your attention where is matters. In a way, it's like when we says, Masters know how much they sucks at the game. For me, in term of mind awareness, you seems like a bronzie, unable to understand what I say. Oh so your company does actually care how you curse? You can't simply throw offensive words here and there willy nilly--it has to fit the situation at hand. It's kind of like, you need to keep the language appropriate for the current situation you are in. You don't call your boss who gave you a raise an ass monkey, but you can call your co-worker a faggot, but only when you are in having a lighthearted exchange where you understand yourself as being in the right. I disagree. If your co-worker was gay, he would likely be offended. It'd be the same as calling your co-worker a nigger, no matter how lighthearted you try to make it. People use these words in very offensive, specific contexts. Gay bashers call their victims "faggots" the same way racists call blacks "niggers", and I think you should avoid using them in any workplace context. In your place of the word maybe. I've got 2 gay friend who are together and doesn't mind AT ALL (from their mouth) when we call somebody or themself faggot. In the context of playing a game, we consider being part of expression friendly frustration. Why can't you accept that people don't always live like you ? Why would you even bother taking that risk when you could just use any other word? I know black people that don't get insulted by the word nigger, but does that mean I am going to be OK with randomly saying nigger from time to time? Unnecessary. risk.
It really not a risk to me.
But even then, you call Destiny a racist, try to flame him, for taking a risk you wouldn't ? Even when his opponent didn't gave a shit ? How strange...
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EPT
