TvP Lategame comment from Blizzard - Page 31

On May 05 2012 02:08 neozxa wrote:
The problem is with Terran being designed to cripple the Protoss hard enough on the midgame so that they can have the upper hand later on in the lategame is that it will make the players want to 1 or 2 base all in every game. For a player that greatly prefers macro games compared to gimmicky all ins, I'd say that I definitely do not want that to happen.

On May 05 2012 01:53 nOondn wrote:

And what if their expo Got Ht ? -_- then suddenly they warp in zealot and storm then you need to retreat anyway.

On May 05 2012 02:20 Plansix wrote:
What is with all the hate that terrans have for two base timing pushes? They don't all need to be all-ins. They are pretty much standard in PvZ and TvZ in some way or another. It's not like you can leave the zerg alone all game and hope it works out. As a protoss, I fear all two base timing pushes(if the terran is smart and snipes my observer). They are the main thing that makes me stop boosting my upgrades and boosting my warpgates. Even if you never attack, the protoss is going to have to respect your army and that time can be use to take a third before them. .

On May 05 2012 02:17 Talin wrote:


You don't get to have these kinds of preferences in a strategy game. The "macro game" is a freaking myth to begin with - it was designed to help new RTS players learn the game and understand how RTS economy works and why it is important, but years of repetition have turned it into some sort of a religion. -_-

The macro game only happens when both players think they're unable to reliably kill the other guy by exploiting a weakness in what he's doing.

If Protoss are consciously making themselves weak in the midgame by doing the Give-Me-Everything build off of 2 or 3 base and Gateway units, then a month or two of relentless aggression will teach them to slow down their timings and tech investment.

On May 05 2012 02:20 Plansix wrote:
What is with all the hate that terrans have for two base timing pushes? They don't all need to be all-ins. They are pretty much standard in PvZ and TvZ in some way or another. It's not like you can leave the zerg alone all game and hope it works out. As a protoss, I fear all two base timing pushes(if the terran is smart and snipes my observer). They are the main thing that makes me stop boosting my upgrades and boosting my warpgates. Even if you never attack, the protoss is going to have to respect your army and that time can be use to take a third before them. .

On May 05 2012 02:15 NHL Fever wrote:


But that never happens, even at pro level, because its not really possible. For ghosts to work, they need to kill templar. They can do this by getting in front and hitting some snipes or emp's before the conflict, but then they die cause they are in front. Or they could be in the army or the back, in which case the army gets stormed before the ghosts are in range. Furthermore, all tvp battles require kiting for terran to have any chance. Ghosts cannot stim and will be left behind and die.

I don't think I have EVER seen a battle take place in a game of any significance, where there were 10+ ghosts left over after battle pvt. For sure not since patch. Have you? Link if so.

On May 05 2012 02:24 Plansix wrote:


Exactly. SC2 is not a game of players sitting back on three bases and getting maxed armies. If it was, I wouldn't want to play that game. If you see your opponent being greedy, it should be punished.

On May 05 2012 02:21 Fencer710 wrote:

That's why you scan the expo before running in so that you don't get trapped.

You can also use the vision to EMP/Snipe the Templar.

On May 05 2012 02:23 Chaggi wrote:


Most of the big 2 base timing pushes are already figured out and Protoss do reasonably well to deflect them. It's about doing enough damage with those timings that Terrans can't really do now. I don't mind it, I just think it's stupid that Terrans have to basically kill you or hope you make a huge mistake past 3-4 bases. Getting there is a challenge sure, but it's not as hard as people make it out to be.

On May 05 2012 02:08 neozxa wrote:
The problem is with Terran being designed to cripple the Protoss hard enough on the midgame so that they can have the upper hand later on in the lategame is that it will make the players want to 1 or 2 base all in every game.

On May 05 2012 02:29 Fencer710 wrote:

Pretty much. Though, Terran is much better in the late-game than people make it out to be. The recent CC first build from LastShadow is amazing in TvP. Especially since if you scout him going for a fast third or no tech you can literally get a 7 minute third base with delayed upgrades and starport and still be perfectly fine in the late-game because Terran is just so robust.

On May 05 2012 02:27 Belha wrote:
Just 4 facts:

- T is a race with a lot of versatility that must be played actively, prolly the race with the most initiative, and must dictate the pace of the game. If not, then is like using Z to mainly play agressive and timming attacks; or like trying to trade blows/armies with P. That things can be done, sure, but it's not maximizing the race potential. I still see pros playing TvP using mmm without using multi pronged hit and run to take small adventages (big hit or nothing!), and trying to fight ball vs ball; when the race potential is in small multi pronged battles.

- All that T's are crying for in TvP: the obligation to pressure and slow protoss down during early and mid game; that is pretty similar to what is the standar for PvZ. If P do not slow down Z, is pretty fked up. For any uninformed T player, Z can lay down a 3rd at 4:20 unpunished into +60 drones in standard ZvP...

- T was, with proof about the highest win% ever in Sc2, during Release/2011 patches, the best race (that's why it got nerfed several times by blizzard). So both Z's and P's have rough times, both races have awful runs at GSL several seasons. That make those players develop at higher rate under a kinda underpowered status. So, in comparison to Z and P, T was never pushed that hard by the balance. Now, that "balance confort zone" is gone, then the T whine apears.

-And if all the terrans, now that the numbers do not show any more balance towars their race, ALL find out that they do not like their race; then, it may be fair to indeed buff the lategame...but that means that the early mid mmm advantage should be nerfed too. So please let's be fair with the comments.

On May 05 2012 02:23 Chaggi wrote:


Most of the big 2 base timing pushes are already figured out and Protoss do reasonably well to deflect them. It's about doing enough damage with those timings that Terrans can't really do now. I don't mind it, I just think it's stupid that Terrans have to basically kill you or hope you make a huge mistake past 3-4 bases. Getting there is a challenge sure, but it's not as hard as people make it out to be.