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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:30 Joedaddy wrote: I really hope people don't stereotype all Christians or the Christian faith because of this. To me, that is always the saddest part about these kinds of stories. I think the saddest part about the story is that it might encourage a parent to hurt their child. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:38 Kenshin_915 wrote: Yeah, I guess subtle, lifelong psycological abuse will just have to do. But ya' know, "hate the sin love the sinner etc etc." But the problem is, being gay isn't a lifestyle, as much as being straight is a lifestyle. It's normal. But hey, screw all the evidence that says so... I'm really sorry, but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not advocating "subtle, lifelong psychological abuse." How did you arrive at the conclusion that I think that would be appropriate? | ||
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Asrathiel
Australia377 Posts
On May 02 2012 16:41 KobyKat wrote: The pastor isn't advocating child abuse or anything like that, So what would you call him advising a parent to punch a 4 year old? On May 02 2012 16:25 b0mBerMan wrote: Transcript of the sermon Source: http://www.fark.com/cgi/go.pl?i=7082155&s=1 My son likes to wear dresses (he's 6 now, has done it since 3 or 4). So far it hasn't made his penis fall off, and I can tell you now, if he's gay, it ain't because dresses 'made' him gay. If that's who he is, then cool. That's who he is. His father hates it and tries to stop it. He may be successful in stopping the dress-wearing (at least when the kids are with him), but all that's going to achieve is that if our boy grows up and discovers he's gay, he's going to be scared and ashamed at the thought of letting his dad know. If his dad tried to 'beat it out of him' (which I know he wouldn't), that would only serve to fuck up their relationship completely. Well done, crazy pastor dude. | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
 i kid.All joking aside though the anti-gay christian movement does have basis in that the bible is anti-gay in a really straight forward way it does literally say its wrong to lie with another man like you would with a woman or something of that nature, i can't really recall why it was supposedly put in the bible historically but iirc it was essentially to push back on alot of the more open polytheistic societies like the greeks / romans. Really though when it all boils down to it for this issue the anti-gay christians (like this pastor) who advocate taking away freedoms and/or forcing children to "be straight" even when its obviously something you are born with (it has a genetic basis in that its the same gene that makes people extra fertile for procreation) are completely ridiculous in wanting to take away the rights of other individuals to keep in the "land of the free" so much derp in american christians  makes my country look bad. Can we skip war with iran/n.korea in the future and just nuke the bible belt?  j/k | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:41 Joedaddy wrote: I'm really sorry, but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not advocating "subtle, lifelong psychological abuse." How did you arrive at the conclusion that I think that would be appropriate? He probably means referring to a perfectly normal lifestyle choice as sinful and threatening them with eternal torture for it. It may look acceptable to you but from the outside it fits the definition of abuse. | ||
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Kenshin_915
Canada139 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:48 hypercube wrote: He probably means referring to a perfectly normal lifestyle choice as sinful and threatening them with eternal torture for it. It may look acceptable to you but from the outside it fits the definition of abuse. Thanks Hypercube  | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:40 hypercube wrote: I think the saddest part about the story is that it might encourage a parent to hurt their child. I listened to the sermon's audio via the link in the OP. The transcript the OP provided doesn't really convey the true meaning of what the preacher was trying to say. I don't agree with the word choice he went with to get his message across, but I also didn't get the impression that he is advocating parents "hurt" their children. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but speech(?) is more about how you say it (body language, tone of voice, etc) than what you say. I personally have never sat in Church and heard a preacher say that parents, or anyone else, should harm anyone for anything be it physically or psychologically. He probably means referring to a perfectly normal lifestyle choice as sinful and threatening them with eternal torture for it. It may look acceptable to you but from the outside it fits the definition of abuse. Having sin in your life does not mean you are doomed to eternal torture. I think its a common misconception that Christians believe gay people are going to hell because they are gay and living a gay lifestyle. If someone is feeling threatened for the reasons you stated, then I would suggest they do some self-study on what the Bible says about how you end up in Heaven or Hell. | ||
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Asrathiel
Australia377 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:50 Joedaddy wrote: I listened to the sermon's audio via the link in the OP. The transcript the OP provided doesn't really convey the true meaning of what the preacher was trying to say. I don't agree with the word choice he went with to get his message across, but I also didn't get the impression that he is advocating parents "hurt" their children. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but speech(?) is more about how you say it (body language, tone of voice, etc) than what you say. I personally have never sat in Church and heard a preacher say that parents, or anyone else, should harm anyone for anything be it physically or psychologically. Even if said with words and not violence, the message is still that 'who you are is not OK'. That's pretty damn psychologically hurtful from where i'm standing. | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:50 Joedaddy wrote: I listened to the sermon's audio via the link in the OP. The transcript the OP provided doesn't really convey the true meaning of what the preacher was trying to say. I don't agree with the word choice he went with to get his message across, but I also didn't get the impression that he is advocating parents "hurt" their children. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but speech(?) is more about how you say it (body language, tone of voice, etc) than what you say. I personally have never sat in Church and heard a preacher say that parents, or anyone else, should harm anyone for anything be it physically or psychologically. He clearly tells them to punch their kids for behaving gay. There is no ambiguity there. What point are you trying to make here? | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:50 Joedaddy wrote: I listened to the sermon's audio via the link in the OP. The transcript the OP provided doesn't really convey the true meaning of what the preacher was trying to say. I don't agree with the word choice he went with to get his message across, but I also didn't get the impression that he is advocating parents "hurt" their children. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but speech(?) is more about how you say it (body language, tone of voice, etc) than what you say. I personally have never sat in Church and heard a preacher say that parents, or anyone else, should harm anyone for anything be it physically or psychologically. I don't understand you clearly. Are you saying that you listened to the sermon and the transcript is a fabrication? Or that the transcript is accurate but shouldn't be taken literally? Or you just listened to a small part and concluded that he probably wouldn't advocate child abuse? | ||
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ChriS-X
Malaysia1374 Posts
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Mvrio
689 Posts
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goldenwitch
United States338 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:50 Joedaddy wrote: I listened to the sermon's audio via the link in the OP. The transcript the OP provided doesn't really convey the true meaning of what the preacher was trying to say. I don't agree with the word choice he went with to get his message across, but I also didn't get the impression that he is advocating parents "hurt" their children. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but speech(?) is more about how you say it (body language, tone of voice, etc) than what you say. I personally have never sat in Church and heard a preacher say that parents, or anyone else, should harm anyone for anything be it physically or psychologically. Perhaps you should consider the likely possibility that you didn't hear any preacher advocating anything harmful in church because that is what you wanted to hear. The God of the bible is not a very nice God and the bible never claims that he is. | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:54 Crushinator wrote: He clearly tells them to punch their kids for behaving gay. There is no ambiguity there. What point are you trying to make here? I think you are missing the point, its on the level of spanking a kid for doing something wrong, which again is something that not all people agree on nowadays (corporal punishment). Personally if you need to know my opinion corporal punishment is okay to an extent that you need negative reinforcement for something that is merits the case (your child using physical violence against someone else, stealing when he/she knows its wrong ect..) I would say "punching" him in the literal sense would be wrong i.e laying him flat, but the punch the pastor meant was like a punch on the shoulder.. hardly actual physical abuse. Not that i am advocating negatively reinforcing being gay since its something you are born with and is not something that you can teach people out of. edit: just to get rid of the ambiguity what i mean by acceptable corporal punishment would be a spanking or forcing them to eat a bar of soap ect.. | ||
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RobbieF
Australia28 Posts
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Asrathiel
Australia377 Posts
On May 02 2012 18:01 sc14s wrote: Personally if you need to know my opinion corporal punishment is okay to an extent that you need negative reinforcement for something that is merits the case (your child using physical violence against someone else, stealing when he/she knows its wrong ect..) ![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/564782_367833389920651_324385204265470_968372_1225541123_n.jpg) That's all I have to say about that... ... actually I lied, i have one more thing to say on that subject your child using physical violence against someone else "Hitting is wrong! You shouldn't hit people! I'm going to show you how wrong it is to hit someone by... by hitting you! Yeah!" Love the logic there. | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
ANNNND you didn't explain anything. I really hate when people do this. If you don't agree with an issue you dont fucking troll by posting a stupid ass picture. | ||
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Rockztar
Denmark210 Posts
On May 02 2012 16:33 Aelfric wrote: I could never understand why people be anti-gay. What are they trying to protect the public from? Being gay is a part of reality, let the people live however they want lol. It's not like they will ass rape you in the ATM all of a sudden... + Show Spoiler + It would be pretty funny if it did happen though. I really wish people could just mind their own businesses. Why do these people even bother with other people? Are they worried they're going to hell, if they don't "set other people straight" or what? | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On May 02 2012 18:01 sc14s wrote: I think you are missing the point, its on the level of spanking a kid for doing something wrong, which again is something that not all people agree on nowadays (corporal punishment). Personally if you need to know my opinion corporal punishment is okay to an extent that you need negative reinforcement for something that is merits the case (your child using physical violence against someone else, stealing when he/she knows its wrong ect..) I would say "punching" him in the literal sense would be wrong i.e laying him flat, but the punch the pastor meant was like a punch on the shoulder.. hardly actual physical abuse. Not that i am advocating negatively reinforcing being gay since its something you are born with and is not something that you can teach people out of. You seem to be very specific about what the pastor meant. That is a bit odd. Personally, I don't think corporal punishment is ever ok, it is lazy, barbaric, unnecessary and mostly counter-productive. So that does color my opinion on this, I think using violence to change a person's fundamental nature is outright evil. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
On May 02 2012 17:56 hypercube wrote: I don't understand you clearly. Are you saying that you listened to the sermon and the transcript is a fabrication? Or that the transcript is accurate but shouldn't be taken literally? Or you just listened to a small part and concluded that he probably wouldn't advocate child abuse? I listened to the 1m41s audio excerpt of the sermon found in the source link of the OP. The transcript in the OP is accurate. I did not think the preacher was advocating child abuse. If I were to write on this forum, "I hate cats" it would be logical to assume that I do indeed hate cats. However, there are many, many different ways for me to verbally say "I hate cats" that would give you the impression that I really don't hate cats. That's probably a terrible example that only makes sense in my own mind, but I hope you can interpret what I'm trying to get across ^^ | ||
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