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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. |
Northern Ireland23916 Posts
On May 02 2012 05:05 HorsemasterK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:02 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 02 2012 04:58 Zoesan wrote:
Do you really think razer will care? Seriously?
My opinion on this is: if you get offended by words, you deserve to be offended. Destiny is famous because he cusses and sweards and uses slurs. Don't like it don't watch. I don't watch his stream, I don't like him particularly. But I'm not crying and bitching about the use of words. If he started killing asians (or what have you), that would be something else.
It's just like gay and faggot, words I use all the time. Hell, one of my best friends is gay and he doesn't give a flying fuck about the language I use, because he knows how I stand.
I use faggot in a similar way as you do (probably) and it's not my gay friends that are offended, but people acting 'on their behalf' to appear fucking progressive and tolerant. To divine the meaning of what is said and whether there is racist/homophobic etc intent requires an ability to contexualise which half of the respondents here seem to lack. Racist epithets don't always denote racist viewpoints. So you honestly expect people to have some divine knowledge of your innner thoughts to KNOW that you are not racist, or to somehow assume that when you use racist/homophobic language you are, in fact, NOT racist? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Good points, especially pertaining to this issue. I said earlier that I think the charge of racism is actually potentially applicable here, given that his use of a racist epithet seemed tied to an actual indication of ethnicity (the player typing in Korean). I think it's a charge he should answer, as his standard 'I use racist language, but I'm not racist' defense isn't entirely satisfactory.
I was more referencing actual instances of experiencing accusations of racism/sexism/homophobia in my day-to-day from complete strangers who just decide to jump on certain words without even knowing the context of the conversations I'm having within earshot. (This is a personal bugbear of mine, apologies if somewhat off-topic)
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On May 02 2012 05:05 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:02 Kaitlin wrote:On May 02 2012 04:50 Fueled wrote:Okay, so you clicked on it and you didn't like it. Turn it off and don't watch it again.
If you turn on your TV guide, you tune into a show you've never heard of before. Family Guy, that sounds wholesome and family oriented. 30 seconds in, you are offended, what do you do?
Contact the station/companies involved and tell them you are no longer buying any products featured in the commercials because you are offended?
OR
Just don't watch it Again with this. You can't compare the two. Compare this to someone who is a big face in some other sport. Say a Derek Jeter for baseball or a Kobe Bryant for basketball. Do you think they wouldn't see any action against them if they said these choice words to someone they were playing against while thousands of people watched? No, they WOULD see some sort of action against them for its been done in the past and present. Actually, you can't compare the two. You can't compare people playing a video game over the internet to organized professional sports leagues. Derek Jeter is a member of Major League Baseball. The commissioner can punish him for making racial slurs as it hurts Major League Baseball. Destiny is not part of any such "League". Now, he has entered into contracts with Quantic, and sponsors, so they can make their own business decisions of whether they want to be associated with him, but they can't "punish" him. They can't stop him from doing what he does. They can simply cut their ties. Here's a solution. To those who are offended by Destiny, go write an email to Razer or whoever sponsors Quantic. I've already sent my email. That's probably the most effective way to get him to stop. Arguing in here is not productive at all.
I will refrain from opinating on this whole issue as there seem to be bans going left and right.
However just to clarify something, the people contacting razer, shouldn't you be contacting Own3d.tv instead? I mean the whole event took place on a stream right?
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On May 02 2012 05:08 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:05 mememolly wrote:On May 01 2012 22:16 WardenSC wrote:
I was playing vs QuanticDestiny a few hours ago where he was calling me a "gook" and a bunch of offensive words. Now I understand that one may get frustrated if he/she loses in a game (I've been there myself). I also understand that it is his stream and he may say that he can do whatever the hell he wants in his stream. However, he stands now as a "community figure" who has the reach to influence thousands of viewers daily and can skew the public's view of sc2 community in an extremely negative direction.
Isn't it reasonable to expect a level of professionalism from a player that plays on a professional team? I just don't think spurting out racial slurs left and right in front of a large audience is why Quantic sponsors Destiny to market their team.
As a note, I don't think QuanticDestiny is a true racist. However, I do believe that ignorance towards his excessive use of racial slurs would eventually lead to tolerance within the community and that would be a very dangerous outcome.
define professionalism, professionalism doesn't = whatever makes you happy the thing that made destiny a community figure is this exact image, that is why quantic hired him, why should he stop what made him popular in the first place just because it upsets some people while others know it is just entertainment? If you don't like then don't watch, if you're playing him and he says something then block him and report him to blizz but don't try and nerf the world just because you're upset, some people know destiny is just angry and not a real racist, again, don't try and protect me or insult me by setting your standards on me Sapping individuality and freedom out of the game and forcing a certain behavior on players is, I'd argue, more dangerous than a few racial slurs from a troll streamer like Destiny Exactly, indeed one of the main reasons mainstream 'sport' is devoid of actual discernible personality is due to this kind of political correctness. Now I don't WANT people to go around firing off racial slurs in football press conferences, but if you continue to censure you'll be left listening to incredibly boring monosyllabic interviews from players fearful of offending sponsors. Starcraft to me is greatly enhanced by the access to player's personalities, it adds a rich dimension to the game and it'd be a shame we lost that. Some may like Destiny's, some may dislike, but either way it adds an additional reason to support players and root for them, part of the fun of following any competitive endeavor
You think slurring and hatred that has long been shed by polite society adds a "rich dimension" to Starcraft?
Sheth is the ultimate manner bear.
TLO is AMAZING to his fans.
Stephano's stoic attitude always makes people chuckle.
iNcontroL is hilarious.
MC is hilarious.
Huk is adorable.
Those are personalities that add rich dimensions to Starcraft and they all manage to do it without being hateful.
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On May 02 2012 05:07 dmasterding wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:05 HorsemasterK wrote:On May 02 2012 05:02 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 02 2012 04:58 Zoesan wrote:
Do you really think razer will care? Seriously?
My opinion on this is: if you get offended by words, you deserve to be offended. Destiny is famous because he cusses and sweards and uses slurs. Don't like it don't watch. I don't watch his stream, I don't like him particularly. But I'm not crying and bitching about the use of words. If he started killing asians (or what have you), that would be something else.
It's just like gay and faggot, words I use all the time. Hell, one of my best friends is gay and he doesn't give a flying fuck about the language I use, because he knows how I stand.
I use faggot in a similar way as you do (probably) and it's not my gay friends that are offended, but people acting 'on their behalf' to appear fucking progressive and tolerant. To divine the meaning of what is said and whether there is racist/homophobic etc intent requires an ability to contexualise which half of the respondents here seem to lack. Racist epithets don't always denote racist viewpoints. So you honestly expect people to have some divine knowledge of your innner thoughts to KNOW that you are not racist, or to somehow assume that when you use racist/homophobic language you are, in fact, NOT racist? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... You don't have to have divine knowledge of someone's inner thoughts to realize that they aren't racist. This can easily be figured out just by actually paying attention to how that person acts for even a short period of time, instead of going completely apeshit whenever he says the word.
Majority of the KKK did not burn crosses or beat up blacks or lynched random people on the street. Most of them simply hun out with friends saying randomly racist things because they thought it was funny. Racism is not the maliciousness of your intent--it's of the "normalization" of the bigoted mindset.
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On May 02 2012 05:11 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:10 FairForever wrote:On May 02 2012 05:08 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 05:04 Audemed wrote:
He's more popular than Orb (IDK why), so no, he wont get fired.
Should contact quantic's sponsors though. No. Read the fucking thread instead of hoping in and posting shit. ? Many of us have read it, I know what InControl is saying but he's saying that as a beneficiary of the pro scene. I still choose to contact Razer. Good for you, destroy the scene you invested so much time in so 'the man' doesn't get his paycheck
What?
You expect companies like CBS to actually broadcast games if the competitors use derogatory, inflammatory and racist language?
As I said earlier, if people want SC2 to grow bigger (eg. being on television), they have to accept that some acts (eg. racist remarks) are simply unacceptable.
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On May 02 2012 05:04 Silvertine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:02 Argolis wrote:On May 02 2012 04:56 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2012 04:54 Argolis wrote:On May 02 2012 04:53 besteady wrote:On May 02 2012 04:47 Arghmyliver wrote:
What the fuck guys.
If you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that ONE RACE is SUPERIOR to another - you are an IGNORANT FUCKING LUNATIC.
THE ONLY reason that these words were EVER offensive was the CONTEXT IN WHICH THEY WERE USED.
Its fucking 2012 - the most fucking offensive term these days in the US is probably "sandnigger" because racist fucking lunatics actually think that people of Middle-Eastern/Arabic descent are inferior. And that's just pure, dumb, stupid, ignorance. And honestly it stems from the fact that these idiots are pants-shitting xenophobics. They are SO AFRAID of a group of people that they resort to dehumanizing them.
That makes you a racist. It also makes you a fucking dumbass.
Do you HONESTLY BELIEVE that Destiny is like "Oh God, not another Korean! I hate these guys, they all look alike and they've got no Seoul cause they Seould it to get good at SC!"?
If so then you're fucking dumb. I KNOW you THINK racism is DEAD, but there are EXAMPLES of IT everywhere in THE news and PERSONALY i have racist FAMILY members and RACIST acquaitences. And having Quantic's sponsors pull their support and financing out of the starcraft 2 scene will help solve that racism. Not elegantly but yes, yes it will. If people give you money and then stop giving you money when you use slurs, you're going to stop using slurs if you still want money. So streamers using less slurs will solve racism. I'm shocked nobody figured this out yet! That's not what he said at all.
That's exactly what he said.
"having Quantic's sponsors pull their support and financing out of the starcraft 2 scene will help solve that racism."
"Not elegantly but yes, yes it will."
Anyway,
Racism has very little, if anything to do with politically correct language... I had a long reply but this thread is a trainwreck. I'm out!
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On May 02 2012 05:08 JDub wrote:
I used to really enjoy watching Destiny's stream, but I have stopped enjoying it, as every time he loses he throws out some really offensive, childish insults (his favorites involve using "autism" and "special olympics"). I for one will not watch his stream anymore.
Good. Then don't. That's the mature way to go about it. If you don't like what you hear on a stream, just stop watching it. One shouldn't just get offended, and then immediately email sponsors trying to get the player seriously reprimanded for something the team obviously took into account whilst hiring him (not saying you're doing this specifically, just using your quote as an example to respond to other people in the thread.)
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On May 02 2012 05:08 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:04 Audemed wrote:
He's more popular than Orb (IDK why), so no, he wont get fired.
Should contact quantic's sponsors though. No. Read the fucking thread instead of hoping in and posting shit.
No, I WILL hop in here and say whatever the fuck I want. It's retarded knee-jerk reaction that got Orb fucked over, so why not also do it to a guy who's a total dick, rather than someone who just has "anger issues". You want to fire one guy for using racial slurs, FIRE THEM ALL. Double standards are more despicable than racism.
User was warned for this post
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On May 02 2012 05:10 Gheed wrote:
Buying a Quantic shirt if they ignore the retarded drama and don't do anything. This community is beyond silly.
YES! Also love your blog dude. However, I'm concerned about how you treat bronze leaguers as a minority and refer to them as "bronzies." This term is highly offensive to those with no SC skill and I think your sponsors should be pulling their shit.
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On May 02 2012 05:10 Gheed wrote:
Buying a Quantic shirt if they ignore the retarded drama and don't do anything. This community is beyond silly.
Actually I really like your idea. I'm not a fan of Quantic or Destiny, but how a small portion of this community wants to censor what people say is disgusting. E-mailing them now and letting them know.
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You can't compare people playing a video game over the internet to organized professional sports leagues.
Destiny is part of a team.
Destiny has sponsors.
The team and sponsors could take action in letting him go.
In professional sports, teams can take action on one their players with either letting them go, fines, etc... Without the MLB governing body taking any action against the player/person.
In this case Quantic needs to be the one who takes action. At this point in time Destiny is representing Quantic and all their sponsors and in this case its not the positive kind of representation.
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It's seriously disgusting to see so much defense for casual hate speech. Sometimes I feel like the community has finally started to mature, but then threads like this come along, and the response from some people just depresses me. Why anyone thinks casual racism, homophobia, and bigotry is cool or okay will forever beyond me.
I sent a pretty strong email to Quantic, basically stating that so long as they support and employ a racist, homophobic bigot that it is impossible to view Quantic as doing anything other than endorsing racism, homophobia, and bigotry. I really urge everyone who feels something even close to that to do the same.
Why is it so hard for everyone to just be good to each other? It's well past time for people to stop acting like hate speech is funny or okay in any situation.
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On May 02 2012 05:08 HorsemasterK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:07 dmasterding wrote:On May 02 2012 05:05 HorsemasterK wrote:On May 02 2012 05:02 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 02 2012 04:58 Zoesan wrote:
Do you really think razer will care? Seriously?
My opinion on this is: if you get offended by words, you deserve to be offended. Destiny is famous because he cusses and sweards and uses slurs. Don't like it don't watch. I don't watch his stream, I don't like him particularly. But I'm not crying and bitching about the use of words. If he started killing asians (or what have you), that would be something else.
It's just like gay and faggot, words I use all the time. Hell, one of my best friends is gay and he doesn't give a flying fuck about the language I use, because he knows how I stand.
I use faggot in a similar way as you do (probably) and it's not my gay friends that are offended, but people acting 'on their behalf' to appear fucking progressive and tolerant. To divine the meaning of what is said and whether there is racist/homophobic etc intent requires an ability to contexualise which half of the respondents here seem to lack. Racist epithets don't always denote racist viewpoints. So you honestly expect people to have some divine knowledge of your innner thoughts to KNOW that you are not racist, or to somehow assume that when you use racist/homophobic language you are, in fact, NOT racist? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... You don't have to have divine knowledge of someone's inner thoughts to realize that they aren't racist. This can easily be figured out just by actually paying attention to how that person acts for even a short period of time, instead of going completely apeshit whenever he says the word. I cannot know his inner thoughts, neither can you. All we can say is that he uses racist language. Beyond that is speculation.
Exactly, and this is touching on an important point: People can only go by what you say. If you use racist terms, especially the particular slurs that apply to the person you're attacking, it will be assumed that you're a racist. That is a perfectly logical assumption and it can't be contradicted by whatever your true nature happens to be. You can't expect strangers to know that you just happen to like saying "nigger" and "gook" even though you're not racist because it's insane. And you can't have it both ways, either stop using racist terms or accept the fact that you will be viewed as a racist.
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On May 02 2012 05:12 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:11 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 05:10 FairForever wrote:On May 02 2012 05:08 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 05:04 Audemed wrote:
He's more popular than Orb (IDK why), so no, he wont get fired.
Should contact quantic's sponsors though. No. Read the fucking thread instead of hoping in and posting shit. ? Many of us have read it, I know what InControl is saying but he's saying that as a beneficiary of the pro scene. I still choose to contact Razer. Good for you, destroy the scene you invested so much time in so 'the man' doesn't get his paycheck What? You expect companies like CBS to actually broadcast games if the competitors use derogatory, inflammatory and racist language? As I said earlier, if people want SC2 to grow bigger (eg. being on television), they have to accept that some acts (eg. racist remarks) are simply unacceptable.
You've obviously never even paid ANY attention to Destiny's position on swearing on his stream. Swearing on the ladder, on his stream when only his viewers are watching, is WAY different from a professional game. Destiny has said that there's a time and place for everything - he most DEFINITELY would not play a broadcasted game (esp. if it WERE to be casted on CBS) and swear the way he does.
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Northern Ireland23916 Posts
On May 02 2012 05:12 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:08 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 02 2012 05:05 mememolly wrote:On May 01 2012 22:16 WardenSC wrote:
I was playing vs QuanticDestiny a few hours ago where he was calling me a "gook" and a bunch of offensive words. Now I understand that one may get frustrated if he/she loses in a game (I've been there myself). I also understand that it is his stream and he may say that he can do whatever the hell he wants in his stream. However, he stands now as a "community figure" who has the reach to influence thousands of viewers daily and can skew the public's view of sc2 community in an extremely negative direction.
Isn't it reasonable to expect a level of professionalism from a player that plays on a professional team? I just don't think spurting out racial slurs left and right in front of a large audience is why Quantic sponsors Destiny to market their team.
As a note, I don't think QuanticDestiny is a true racist. However, I do believe that ignorance towards his excessive use of racial slurs would eventually lead to tolerance within the community and that would be a very dangerous outcome.
define professionalism, professionalism doesn't = whatever makes you happy the thing that made destiny a community figure is this exact image, that is why quantic hired him, why should he stop what made him popular in the first place just because it upsets some people while others know it is just entertainment? If you don't like then don't watch, if you're playing him and he says something then block him and report him to blizz but don't try and nerf the world just because you're upset, some people know destiny is just angry and not a real racist, again, don't try and protect me or insult me by setting your standards on me Sapping individuality and freedom out of the game and forcing a certain behavior on players is, I'd argue, more dangerous than a few racial slurs from a troll streamer like Destiny Exactly, indeed one of the main reasons mainstream 'sport' is devoid of actual discernible personality is due to this kind of political correctness. Now I don't WANT people to go around firing off racial slurs in football press conferences, but if you continue to censure you'll be left listening to incredibly boring monosyllabic interviews from players fearful of offending sponsors. Starcraft to me is greatly enhanced by the access to player's personalities, it adds a rich dimension to the game and it'd be a shame we lost that. Some may like Destiny's, some may dislike, but either way it adds an additional reason to support players and root for them, part of the fun of following any competitive endeavor You think slurring and hatred that has long been shed by polite society adds a "rich dimension" to Starcraft? Sheth is the ultimate manner bear. TLO is AMAZING to his fans. Stephano's stoic attitude always makes people chuckle. iNcontroL is hilarious. MC is hilarious. Huk is adorable. Those are personalities that add rich dimensions to Starcraft and they all manage to do it without being hateful.
That's all subjective opinion. It's in having contrasts between mannered guys and the 'bad boys' that is the interesting element, not saying you should be a fan of people acting like pricks!
Look at tennis in its 80s heyday, the contrast in temperaments between McEnroe and Borg was like night and day, and it added an extra dimension to their rivalry.
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On May 02 2012 05:13 Audemed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:08 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 05:04 Audemed wrote:
He's more popular than Orb (IDK why), so no, he wont get fired.
Should contact quantic's sponsors though. No. Read the fucking thread instead of hoping in and posting shit. No, I WILL hop in here and say whatever the fuck I want. It's retarded knee-jerk reaction that got Orb fucked over, so why not also do it to a guy who's a total dick, rather than someone who just has "anger issues". You want to fire one guy for using racial slurs, FIRE THEM ALL. Double standards are more despicable than racism.
Whoosh
you miss the point of my post. Not surprising for someone who most likely only read the first few lines of the OP and already had half his post typed out by then
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On May 02 2012 05:08 dsousa wrote:Poll: Could this event, have an influence on which mouse you purchase next?No (105) 70% Yes (45) 30% 150 total votes Your vote: Could this event, have an influence on which mouse you purchase next? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Honestly there should be 3 options.
No.
Yes, I am less likely to buy a razer mouse.
Yes, I am more likely to buy a razer mouse to counteract those that I feel are overreacting.
Right now the "Yes" option kind of covers two types of people..
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On May 02 2012 05:14 dmasterding wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:12 FairForever wrote:On May 02 2012 05:11 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 05:10 FairForever wrote:On May 02 2012 05:08 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 05:04 Audemed wrote:
He's more popular than Orb (IDK why), so no, he wont get fired.
Should contact quantic's sponsors though. No. Read the fucking thread instead of hoping in and posting shit. ? Many of us have read it, I know what InControl is saying but he's saying that as a beneficiary of the pro scene. I still choose to contact Razer. Good for you, destroy the scene you invested so much time in so 'the man' doesn't get his paycheck What? You expect companies like CBS to actually broadcast games if the competitors use derogatory, inflammatory and racist language? As I said earlier, if people want SC2 to grow bigger (eg. being on television), they have to accept that some acts (eg. racist remarks) are simply unacceptable. You've obviously never even paid ANY attention to Destiny's position on swearing on his stream. Swearing on the ladder, on his stream when only his viewers are watching, is WAY different from a professional game. Destiny has said that there's a time and place for everything - he most DEFINITELY would not play a broadcasted game (esp. if it WERE to be casted on CBS) and swear the way he does.
You obviously didnt watch destiny vs minigun on IPL last week.
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On May 02 2012 05:10 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:10 Leafren wrote:On May 02 2012 03:03 FairForever wrote:On May 02 2012 03:01 Leafren wrote:
sigh @ the white knights circle jerk
If you think Destiny swears/offends/whatever too much, don't watch his stream. It is that simple. If Destiny thinks it's OK to use words like nigger, gook, etc, on his stream that's his damn right. However distasteful you or I find it. Freedom of speech.
Personally I don't see why you would routinely use words like nigger or faggot, I'm one of those types that does go out of his way a bit to avoid offending people.
However, I'm not entirely convinced Destiny's behaviour is bad for esports, I think it has little to no effect on it at all. If we want esports to grow (soon to be the most cliché sentence), by definition it will include a wider variety of characters and viewpoints. Does any of the world's sports stop growing because players misbehave (in your view that is)? Freedom of speech also encompasses the right to complain directly to his sponsors, does it not? There's a reason the NBA, NFL, etc. take strong stances against violence, controversial comments, etc. - these can all lead to suspensions and fines, even though these leagues are the premier ones and continually grow regardless. Of course it does, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. See that's the beauty of it. I never said people don't have the right to complain to sponsors. I think we agree to a large extent. Up to now there is no gouverming body in esports, so the only logical people to adress if you have a huge issue with Destiny's behaviour is Quantic imo. Who in their right mind would write a complaint letter to Sony because football player x said 'nigger'? A lot of companies stopped sponsoring Rush Limbaugh after what he called a girl a few months ago (I'm not going to repeat it here), a large part of it was through directly contacting his sponsors.
Ok because these two are even remotely similar right?
Rush Limbaugh was targeting one specific individual and did so some dozen times throughout his show.
Destiny made tossed an insult at the end of an online, anonymous video game.
Great comparison man. Go ahead and email sponsors, knowing full well that you are hurting the scene because of what? Oh my god someone called someone else a bad name! What is wrong with you?
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Does anyone else realize that the OP hasn't posted at all in his own thread. He's probably laughing his ass off behind his computer screen at the shitstorm he just created.
I can just see him practicing his 1 base, Proxy 2-port Banshee, 15 min all-in strategy all day long hoping for the day where he gets matched up with Destiny just so he can get BM'ed by him and then make this thread about it...
This is nothing new from Destiny. This thread could have been created 1 year ago and no one would know the difference. I bet you could find plenty of replays from Destiny, hell probably even IdrA, on replay sites where they use worse terms than this one.
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EPT
