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Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop.
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Koreans are still better, look at mlg results. MLG is always dominated by koreans.
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On April 07 2012 00:17 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 00:04 Mr Showtime wrote:
There's a handful of Koreans at the very top that nobody can compete with on a regular basis, but in general, the top foreigners can compete with the top Koreans now. top foreigners can't even make code A. so your statement is not true. Stephano and huk / naniwa can take series off top Koreans, but others have shown jack nothing. so if you mean by top foreigners by those three I mentioned sure. but koreans have like 12312321 players and up and comers you've never heard of.
Please show me the long list of foreigners who dedicate their career to making it in GSL. Nobody does. The top foreigners are defeating the top level Koreans (with exception to the few at the very top) regularly enough that the skill level seems similar.
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On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop.
I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training.
Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary.
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On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
and foreigners are lazy as hell
I think it is a bit unfair to say this, when foreigners like Huk practice just as much as Koreans. I would say Huk even works harder because of his constant travel. Lots of other top foreign pros have adopted a rigorous practice schedule as well.
The problem isn't that foreign pros are lazy. The problem is there aren't nearly enough foreign pros.
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On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary.
for the sake of being anal.
youve never lived on your own have you? 1000 a month for food housing and utilities? beyond that, more than foreign players get in monthly salary? oh you mean the salary they get on TOP of also getting housing and utilities? also, id love to see the information you cite on this wealth of knowledge you possess.
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On April 07 2012 04:12 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary. for the sake of being anal. youve never lived on your own have you? 1000 a month for food housing and utilities?
Maybe my numbers are a bit skewed, because I live in Vancouver, which has a higher-than-average cost of living.
However, working at minimum wage full-time puts you below the poverty line in most 1st world countries. And in most 1st world countries, minimum wage gives you more than $1000 a month.
beyond that, more than foreign players get in monthly salary? oh you mean the salary they get on TOP of also getting housing and utilities? also, id love to see the information you cite on this wealth of knowledge you possess.
Foreigners get Houses now? You realize that EG was the first foreign team with a house, and that only arrived in the second half of 2011?
Why don't you ask NonY where his team house is?
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On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary.
This is wrong. You don't know the price of living in korea obviously. There are like 12 people living in these team houses and food is very cheap in korea. I've lived in asia almost my entire life and I can assure you it's much cheaper to live there than it is in America / Europe. Why do you think koreans are pretty much begging to be on foreign teams?
Do a little research before accusing my claims.
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On April 07 2012 04:20 Ventor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary. This is wrong. You don't know the price of living in korea obviously. There are like 12 people living in these team houses and food is very cheap in korea. I've lived in asia almost my entire life and I can assure you it's much cheaper to live there than it is in America / Europe. Why do you think koreans are pretty much begging to be on foreign teams? Do a little research before accusing my claims.
How about you do a little research. A former ReIGN players mentioned that their paycheck was about $700 a month.
Koreans also have a skewed view of how much money foreign teams will pay them. Sleep was looking for 2 grand a month, and that was basically seen as ludicrous.
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On April 07 2012 04:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 04:12 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary. for the sake of being anal. youve never lived on your own have you? 1000 a month for food housing and utilities? Maybe my numbers are a bit skewed, because I live in Vancouver, which has a higher-than-average cost of living. However, working at minimum wage full-time puts you below the poverty line in most 1st world countries. And in most 1st world countries, minimum wage gives you more than $1000 a month. Show nested quote +beyond that, more than foreign players get in monthly salary? oh you mean the salary they get on TOP of also getting housing and utilities? also, id love to see the information you cite on this wealth of knowledge you possess. Foreigners get Houses now? You realize that EG was the first foreign team with a house, and that only arrived in the second half of 2011? Why don't you ask NonY where his team house is?
why don't you ask kennigit or bumblebee or someone with any semblance of authority on the team why the rumored TL headquarters in new york doesn't have any players in it and why no attempt has been made to get all the players in housing together? because that would involve realizing that they aren't willing, even remotely to drop everything to move in together, especially outside of korea.
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to me it seems like the foreign scene isen't completely "off the hook" like in bw, but Korea still has the best players.
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On April 07 2012 04:25 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 04:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 04:12 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary. for the sake of being anal. youve never lived on your own have you? 1000 a month for food housing and utilities? Maybe my numbers are a bit skewed, because I live in Vancouver, which has a higher-than-average cost of living. However, working at minimum wage full-time puts you below the poverty line in most 1st world countries. And in most 1st world countries, minimum wage gives you more than $1000 a month. beyond that, more than foreign players get in monthly salary? oh you mean the salary they get on TOP of also getting housing and utilities? also, id love to see the information you cite on this wealth of knowledge you possess. Foreigners get Houses now? You realize that EG was the first foreign team with a house, and that only arrived in the second half of 2011? Why don't you ask NonY where his team house is? why don't you ask kennigit or bumblebee or someone with any semblance of authority on the team why the rumored TL headquarters in new york doesn't have any players in it and why no attempt has been made to get all the players in housing together? because that would involve realizing that they aren't willing, even remotely to drop everything to move in together, especially outside of korea.
So...basically you ignore that you tacked on a non-existent team house onto salaries, and now say that player don't want a team house?
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Anybody who believes foreigners and Koreans are of equal skill level are painfully out of touch with reality and will probably not be convinced otherwise regardless of facts and data.
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On April 07 2012 04:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 04:25 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 04:12 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary. for the sake of being anal. youve never lived on your own have you? 1000 a month for food housing and utilities? Maybe my numbers are a bit skewed, because I live in Vancouver, which has a higher-than-average cost of living. However, working at minimum wage full-time puts you below the poverty line in most 1st world countries. And in most 1st world countries, minimum wage gives you more than $1000 a month. beyond that, more than foreign players get in monthly salary? oh you mean the salary they get on TOP of also getting housing and utilities? also, id love to see the information you cite on this wealth of knowledge you possess. Foreigners get Houses now? You realize that EG was the first foreign team with a house, and that only arrived in the second half of 2011? Why don't you ask NonY where his team house is? why don't you ask kennigit or bumblebee or someone with any semblance of authority on the team why the rumored TL headquarters in new york doesn't have any players in it and why no attempt has been made to get all the players in housing together? because that would involve realizing that they aren't willing, even remotely to drop everything to move in together, especially outside of korea. So...basically you ignore that you tacked on a non-existent team house onto salaries, and now say that player don't want a team house?
tell me, your own example. EG. you know that team you gave that has a house? did you casually forget it?
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People just need to accept that Korean Starcraft 2 players are superior.
There is no deeper meaning, and in all probability it has to do with better quality training and dedication.
It might also have something to do with ethnic/racial advantages that Asian people have. I'm pretty sure that Asian people (Koreans in particular) also have an advantage due to genetics and the characteristics or their ethnicity.
Sure my last point is not politically incorrect, but its the same reason you don't see an Asian person winning the 100m olympic sprinting medal. Its genetics, pure and simple.
Any geneticist will tell you that average bone density, and proportion of fast and slow-twitch muscle differs between racial groups, and even person to person. In a game like Starcraft 2 players with a large percentage of fast twitch muscle fiber (in the arms and hands) are at an advantage when it comes to perfecting mechanics (as speed of the hand is often the limiting factor). Muscle and bone composition can be a defining factor in speed and ability. Race is NOT the defining factor in the sport, but it does give Asian people, on average, a slight edge. The KR ladder is pretty much a testament to this point, as it is generally accepted that players on the Korean ladder are overall superior to the NA and EU ladders.
Its the same way that it is a fact that white people are more prone to kidney disease, while black people are more prone to high blood pressure; in that its not racist, just a documented biological fact.
I can already tell that people are going to dismisses this as racist. I am not a racist and I do not conciser what I have written to be racist. Just know that its not racist, merely race-related. There is nothing wrong with saying that the average Asian/black/white person displays certain characteristics that slightly differ from that of other races, as on the basis of it, this is pretty obvious and generally accepted. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, as it is not my intention, I just thought that this post would help contribute to the discussion.
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Polt who was in Code A destroyed everyone. Yes, top foriegners can compete with top koreans.
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Katowice25012 Posts
For what it's worth Wax set over/under for "number of nonKoreans in top 8" at 0.5 and no one we have talked to at IPL has taken the over yet.
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On April 07 2012 04:32 Wildmoon wrote:
Polt who was in Code A destroyed everyone. Yes, top foriegners can compete with top koreans.
Puma, who is Code B, destroys as well. ^_^
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On April 07 2012 04:28 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 04:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 04:25 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 04:12 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary. for the sake of being anal. youve never lived on your own have you? 1000 a month for food housing and utilities? Maybe my numbers are a bit skewed, because I live in Vancouver, which has a higher-than-average cost of living. However, working at minimum wage full-time puts you below the poverty line in most 1st world countries. And in most 1st world countries, minimum wage gives you more than $1000 a month. beyond that, more than foreign players get in monthly salary? oh you mean the salary they get on TOP of also getting housing and utilities? also, id love to see the information you cite on this wealth of knowledge you possess. Foreigners get Houses now? You realize that EG was the first foreign team with a house, and that only arrived in the second half of 2011? Why don't you ask NonY where his team house is? why don't you ask kennigit or bumblebee or someone with any semblance of authority on the team why the rumored TL headquarters in new york doesn't have any players in it and why no attempt has been made to get all the players in housing together? because that would involve realizing that they aren't willing, even remotely to drop everything to move in together, especially outside of korea. So...basically you ignore that you tacked on a non-existent team house onto salaries, and now say that player don't want a team house? tell me, your own example. EG. you know that team you gave that has a house? did you casually forget it?
So, one team? You scoff at the idea that a team house is worth more than what most foreign players make from a paycheck, and you point at the minority to prove it?
Besides, if you're trying to say that foreigners make more money for less work, you're doing a terrible job pointing at a foreign team that basically devotes a shitload of time and effort into SC2.
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On April 07 2012 04:33 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 04:28 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 04:25 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 04:12 Angel_ wrote:On April 07 2012 04:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 07 2012 03:54 Ventor wrote:
Foreigners are not even remotely close to being as good as koreans. Most of the wins they get are on online tournaments where they have a lag advantage. In my opinion, people should be attracted to skilled players rather than 'personalities'. Koreans sweat blood and tears to become as good as they can and foreigners are lazy as hell and still get paid more. If esports is going to ever take off, this needs to stop. I seriously wish this misinformation would stop, because it's pure bullshit. A very select few Foreigners get nice paychecks, and they're the ones that have put in years of "sweat blood and tears". HuK, IdrA and Stephano all have spent an extreme amount of time training. Even the worst of Koreans (ones that have never even qualified for GSL) on a team gets a house, food and utilities. That's worth at least a thousand dollars a month for most people living in 1st world countries, and that's a lot more than what most Foreign players get in monthly salary. for the sake of being anal. youve never lived on your own have you? 1000 a month for food housing and utilities? Maybe my numbers are a bit skewed, because I live in Vancouver, which has a higher-than-average cost of living. However, working at minimum wage full-time puts you below the poverty line in most 1st world countries. And in most 1st world countries, minimum wage gives you more than $1000 a month. beyond that, more than foreign players get in monthly salary? oh you mean the salary they get on TOP of also getting housing and utilities? also, id love to see the information you cite on this wealth of knowledge you possess. Foreigners get Houses now? You realize that EG was the first foreign team with a house, and that only arrived in the second half of 2011? Why don't you ask NonY where his team house is? why don't you ask kennigit or bumblebee or someone with any semblance of authority on the team why the rumored TL headquarters in new york doesn't have any players in it and why no attempt has been made to get all the players in housing together? because that would involve realizing that they aren't willing, even remotely to drop everything to move in together, especially outside of korea. So...basically you ignore that you tacked on a non-existent team house onto salaries, and now say that player don't want a team house? tell me, your own example. EG. you know that team you gave that has a house? did you casually forget it? So, one team? You scoff at the idea that a team house is worth more than what most foreign players make from a paycheck, and you point at the minority to prove it? Besides, if you're trying to say that foreigners make more money for less work, you're doing a terrible job pointing at a foreign team that basically devotes a shitload of time and effort into SC2.
you arent even staying consistent to your own argument at this point. it's your own fucking example. and your second section doesn't even make sense.
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EPT
