EPTWhy do people hate Random players ? - Page 14
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
hongyLOVE
United States30 Posts
| ||
|
SKYFISH_
Bulgaria990 Posts
this thread is pure bananas | ||
|
Macabre
United States1262 Posts
| ||
|
Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:31 mcc wrote: I play 2-5 games a week and even I meet more random players that do not cheese. So either you do not actually play or are very unlucky or random players in your league are just strange. I guarantee that he's one of those people who rolls over and dies to the most standard pressure in the book and then rages about being "cheesed." | ||
|
Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
Dont get why people would BM random players though, that just seems weird to me. | ||
|
Demonhunter04
1530 Posts
On February 23 2012 22:51 DannyJ wrote: Not very impressive when you are just very mediocre at all races instead of actually good with one, which is the case with most randoms. Hmm I think someone mad  . What if you encounter a random who usually takes it to the lategame (such as myself)? | ||
|
sjperera
Canada349 Posts
| ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:30 ThatGuy89 wrote: i dont know how it works for terran and zerg players, but these are my thoughts as a toss player You will always start off behind as a random player. ALWAYS. There isnt any build order tht you can do vs all 3 races, that doesnt put you massively behind in some way. You have to pylon near your ramp in case you vs zerg. You cant pylon on the low ground to FFE though, incase its NOT zerg. You cant chrono too many probes and build your gate late incase youre vs toss and they just get WG quicker then you do. Against terran and toss its not too bad, as you can just build backwards from your ramp. But its zerg that youre just massively behind. I do 1 of 2 things when i vs random players. If its a map like shakuras or metal/shattered where i can proxy close to them without scouting then i just 2 gate proxy. If its a map like TDA or entombed ill just quit straight away, but not say anything. I think with random players, when the loading screen comes on it should say Random (*insert race here*) or it shouldnt reveal your race to them, and show you as random or just ?????? opr something having a scouting lead before the game even starts is so imba This pretty much sums up my thoughts, I 12gate against protoss to shave the ~5+ seconds from warpgate and my chrono on probes finishes during production of the 14'th probe, yet vs terran i will 13 gate and chrono often to like 20 supply which is a massive difference in opening economy that you cannot do vs protoss. Vs zerg, well, the vast majority of games are FFE these days, and simply put if you gateway expand on a map like Taldarim Altar vs zerg you have hit a build order loss. | ||
|
ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
Think of it this way, a Random player rolls Terran on Shakuras vs Protoss and instantly proxy 2 raxes or 3 raxes. Assume we're on EU and playing against a player who plays a generally White-ra-esque style. The Protoss will have had to play 12 gate. Period. To not die vs 4 gate/6 pool the 12 gate will be placed at his ramp. Terran has instant advantage of being able to focus down the buildings that are only placed at the front because of possible ling run-by... MEANING, the Protoss has less time to prepare and has his building in a vulnerable position because if he didn't, he'd be unsafe against certain attacks. Random just give an unfair info advantage unless both players are playing random, and then there will be some disgusting level of build order wins if either player wants to play risky. | ||
|
tztztz
Germany314 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:29 Vega62a wrote: If you send two scouts, you put yourself behind early. Sometimes to an absurd amount. As a zerg player, I can tell you exactly why I hate playing against randoms: Your build is different depending on what race you're playing. If you hatch-first and your opponent turns out to be a protoss player who FFE'd and is now cannoning your expo, you are behind in a way you would not have been if your opponent had told you he was protoss. If you pool-first and your opponent turns out to be terran, you are behind in a way you would not have been had he told you he was terran. I'm not saying that a proper game is one where your build is executed with no hitches and then you play it out - people messing with your build is part of the game - but part of the game is that every time they try to mess with your build, you have the ability to stop them doing so. If they mess with your build before the game even starts, that's not a proper game. It's silly. The argument that somebody who plays random has an unfair disadvantage due to having less skill at their race and should therefore be allowed various other advantages is silly. If you are dissatisfied with your level of skill at the race you play, pick a race and improve at it, or play standard, tell your race at the start, and accept that you will probably get knocked down into a lower league. Or, even better, just roll a dice and pick your race before you queue. you can't just roll a dice unless you have 3 copies of the game. because of b.net 0.2, if you don't wanna mess up your mmr, the only why of playing the full game and not just 1/3 of the game is by playing random. if you could have multiple accounts almost noone would play random i guess | ||
|
CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:20 TheTurk wrote: It's universally understood that in order to be placed into a certain league as Random, either: 1) The Random user plays standard games and thus must be in a lower league than he would be playing one specific race (for obvious logical reasons; 1/3 the play time in each race is bound to cause a decrease in respective skill level for each race compared to sticking to just one.) or 2) The Random user is at the level he is at because the decrease in individual race proficiency is made up for through use of more "gimmicky" or "non-standard" strategies, bridging the gap between the straightforward skill levels of him and his opponents. More often than not, this second case is assumed by default, for whatever reason. It is in the communal (if flawed, partially or substantially) psyche that if one seriously plays SC2 in an attempt to better his skill and do well in play, he would choose one race and work on it continually. After all, how many notable pros play Random? Only 1 in the top 200 on TLPD.  DemonSheepThe Average-SC2-Joe, in his ignorance and disregard for intelligent cognition, will thus naturally frown upon the "less skillful", "less serious" Random player. Nothing to be done about it. I completely disagree with you. Not only are both of your reasons NOT "universally understood", but they are both incorrect when using them to judge the skill of a random player. Concerning reason #1, when I take a break from random and just choose my race for a few games, I still go at least 50/50 in all of my matchups. The only matchup I'm not 100% confident in my ability to play is zvz, and that's because the matchup is broken anyway. And yet I still pull out some good wins with it. Regarding reason #2, the only reason a random player might use gimmicky or non-standard strategies is because the player we're playing against often does something totally unintelligent as a result of playing a random player. So, naturally, we have to adapt. The only reason pros don't play random is because, at their level, you have to be PERFECT to win games. In diamond and masters, or anything below that, you can get by with just being good at the game and out-maneuvering your opponent. I am thoroughly convinced that, if I could choose to stop playing random (which I would never do because it simply wouldn't be fun), I would be at least one level higher on the ladder than I am. | ||
|
eohs
United States677 Posts
| ||
|
UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:47 tztztz wrote: you can't just roll a dice unless you have 3 copies of the game. because of b.net 0.2, if you don't wanna mess up your mmr, the only why of playing the full game and not just 1/3 of the game is by playing random. if you could have multiple accounts almost noone would play random i guess What? EDIT: Upon rereading, it seems you're of the persuasion that you have an individual MMR for each race. This is not true. If I play on my high diamond MMR Zerg account and I select Protoss, I'm gonna get matched against the same person I would've if I had chosen Zerg. Race isn't taken into account for matchmaking. | ||
|
Spectreman
Brazil52 Posts
 The worst part is when you scout the last possible base (and get a 6pool).For curiosity, in big tournaments you can play as random? | ||
|
Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:30 ThatGuy89 wrote: I do 1 of 2 things when i vs random players. If its a map like shakuras or metal/shattered where i can proxy close to them without scouting then i just 2 gate proxy. If its a map like TDA or entombed ill just quit straight away, but not say anything. Oh irony. How I love your sweet beautiful refrains. Edit: Gave credit where due | ||
|
Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
| ||
|
AllisLost
4 Posts
Every race has a "safe build" against any other race Protoss: 3 gate expand Terran: 2 rack expand Zerg: 12 pool 12 gas 15 expand | ||
|
Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:29 ZenithM wrote: Because randoms on ladder play for fun and don't mind (and I guess they love it, even) the coin-flippy side of playing Random. Pro-gamers have their livelihood on the line. You can't gamble on random and expect to always be at an advantage at the start of the game, but you most likely will be less experienced in a longer game. In this a risk worth taking? For random ladderers, yeah, sure, they just want to cheese some ladder points and have fun playing SC2. For pros? They play for money, but it's not the fucking casino. For example, RvT puts you not in that much of a good position, so a pro would not want to play random vs a strong Terran. Random ZvP is a blast, however, and would probably yield a very high winrate at pro level. You seem to be agreeing with me that playing random is actually a big disadvantage if you want to win. If you agree to that, then the tens of posts in this thread about the unfair advantages of randoms are incorrect, yes? RvT is harder than RvP - ok, that's probably correct. Overall however, the reason why players don't choose random in tournaments is because it will decrease their chances to win than if they had picked a race. Random is strong man, it's no use denying it. If you make MMA, DRG and MC play on a random account, this account will be strictly stronger and more fearsome than any of these players individually on their main race account. This statement is demonstrably false. What is stopping them from choosing random? Are you saying they are not motivated enough to be "stronger and more fearsome "? How come no player of their caliber has chosen random and been consistently successful? If what you said were true, the top tier of the game would look a lot different than it does. Randoms are almost nowhere to be seen in the pro world. I suspect the reason random is perceived as strong is because none of the big, casted games are vs randoms. Everyone can copy a progamer's extremenly well refined PvZ build, but when it comes to PvR everyone is at a loss, since there are no tournament finals of PvR, so who can you copy? Pros have already figured out how to exploit the inherent weakness of random players, which is the reason randoms don't go anywhere in serious competitions. How many players here discovered for themselves the optimal build they are using in PvZ? I would say none, pretty much everyone copies big players. I'm sorry randoms are too weak to play vs the best players in the world, and I'm sorry that puts you in a position of having to work at creating a proper build for yourself, but you, racepicker, still have the advantage vs the random you are playing. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:48 SeizeTheDay wrote: Its because they cant go into the game and know what the game plan is... also most randoms if they have a weak race they just cheese... So this is why. When I play random I tell them what race I am right at the start so there is no confusion at all.. :D Ive lost 4 games and counting to randoms lieing about their race and having a FFE pylon placed or not placed in an inappropriate matchup | ||
|
SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
On the other hand, like 75% of the Zergs I encountered always 6 pool'ed, including GMs. | ||
| ||
