EPTWhy do people hate Random players ? - Page 12
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Arghmyliver
United States1079 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
The one who refuse to tell it use the random factor as an advantage and i don't like that. | ||
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Buzerio
United Kingdom135 Posts
On February 23 2012 22:54 VelJa wrote: Captain Obvious ! Here is too a funny fact : there is no random progamers! Exept a CodeS Korean i believe, long time ago who pick a race now. Aww i don't remember the nick ... I think it was Ginnea Pig | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On February 24 2012 00:16 Doctorasul wrote: Incomplete information is part of the game and if you don't adapt your play to reflect the amount of information you have then you are playing badly.. Except you're missing the point. Its not having "incomplete" information, its having NO information in your 1v1s (kinda different for team games because pretty much anything goes there). Literally the moment you start a normal game you at least know something about your opponent. I play Protoss, if my opponent is a Zerg I know he could be going 6,7,8-pool. He could be going hatchery first, 14-pool hatchery, 11-overpool. He could be aiming for fast two-base mutas, three base mutas, 7-roach rush, infestor broodlord. Theres TONS of possibilities and I know nothing about what my opponent is doing. I haven't seen him do anything at all yet. Hell, he hasn't actually done anything yet because we've just entered the game. However what I do know is that I'm not going to face a Marine/Marauder conc push. Or a proxy two-gate. Or fast banshees. Or two-base colossus. I know that I either have to wall in with Pylon/Gateway/Core or FFE because it'll keep lings out and I know that I CAN wall in in these two ways because my buildings aren't going to get sniped up a hill with marines at the bottom or hit by a gateway unit push. I also know that I can aim for a two-base colossus attack or HTs to defend against mutas and get archons for a push or any of a number of strategies. Against a random you literally can't even make those kind of judgements. The extent of your knowledge is "there is an opponent on this map". This forces a delay in build choice by up to several minutes if you scout your opponent last on a large map. That is a huge amount of time in which you can't actually properly select a build or decide how to place your buildings because literally anything in the game could be coming. The chance of a straight up build order loss is much, much higher. Not to mention the fact that a huge number of random players abuse this by cheesing or doing an early all-in that you can't prepare for properly. On February 24 2012 00:39 TheV wrote: I have 2 accounts, one where I play Zerg and another where I play random. The first thing I do when the game starts is say gl, hf, <race>. So the other guy knows what race I am and doesn't BM/gives excuses for losing. No offence, but literally nobody is going to believe you if they've got any sense at all so you're wasting your time. Your intentions might be noble, but you're flat out not going to be believed by anyone with more than a few brain cells. I played against a random a while back who started the game with a "glhf" and then a couple of minutes complaining about how he was "zerg again" and how the system kept rolling him as zerg that day. I pylon-scouted (of course) and he was actually a Terran who went for a Marine/SCV all-in (of course). | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1079 Posts
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
I want to ffe vs zerg. But he is random. I have to choose to guess if he is zerg or not cause if I make my pylon in the ffe position and he is T or P, I auto lose the game. But if I play safe and he is Zerg, I now am forced into a 1 base opening. It's just really stupid in my opinion. | ||
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Necosarius
Sweden4042 Posts
On February 24 2012 00:50 LuckyFool wrote: My solution to random players is to allin the shit out of them. And then they bm me for some reason. I swear, half of my games vs someone non random is an allin. And honestly, being random is not a "big advantage" as my put it, you can still go hatch first vs random, 1 rax FE or open fact/port vs random and protoss players just need to learn how to play 3 gate expand and they are good to go. Just send a slightly earlier scout and you will be slightly behind but it's absolutely not game changing. | ||
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Buzerio
United Kingdom135 Posts
On February 23 2012 23:44 Wroshe wrote: Out of curiosity I would like to ask you all the following. I think I would prefer if random told you there race at the loading screen instead of saying random | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
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Arghmyliver
United States1079 Posts
1. Just scout and play safe, you're supposed to anyways. 2. Remember, the Random doesn't know what their race is until the game starts. You knew all along you cheater. 3. You learn 3 matchups. Random learns 9 matchups. 200% more matchups. Edit: Wrong Number - 6 changed to 9 | ||
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ABeastAmI
Denmark16 Posts
So no matter what race or random race i play i scout, and i have also started to learn(and remember) to scout mid/late game :-) | ||
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Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
On February 23 2012 22:56 Geiko wrote: Why don't you pick a random race at the beginning of each ladder game instead of picking random ? Problem solved  You won't ger random portraits if you do that... | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
But just the fact that tal'darim is impossible to win against an intelligent random player is a pain. I'm fine playing against random on any other map though, If he spawns as terran and sees that my scout is late he should just marine scv all in and he will win. If he spawns as zerg he can go hatch first NO problem at all, leaving me super behind and I should be forced to all in at that point. Now if you see a protoss all in coming, it can be DT's, or some kind of 4 gate. You can stop all of that easily if you know it's coming. If he spawns as protoss, 4 gate. I'm already vulnerable because my gateway is exposed (at the very best) and really, you't do anything else on taldarim anyway so he's just gonna have an advantage that will kill me. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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VelJa
France1109 Posts
Like wall in base like Adelscott vs Z ? and scout at 9 after pylon ? | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1079 Posts
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Rizell
Sweden237 Posts
The second reason i hate random people is that i cant do my normal BO vs a specific race on some maps even if i 9 drone scout, unless i get lucky and scout him first. | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:02 Lightspeaker wrote: Except you're missing the point. Its not having "incomplete" information, its having NO information in your 1v1s (kinda different for team games because pretty much anything goes there). Literally the moment you start a normal game you at least know something about your opponent. I play Protoss, if my opponent is a Zerg I know he could be going 6,7,8-pool. He could be going hatchery first, 14-pool hatchery, 11-overpool. He could be aiming for fast two-base mutas, three base mutas, 7-roach rush, infestor broodlord. Theres TONS of possibilities and I know nothing about what my opponent is doing. I haven't seen him do anything at all yet. Hell, he hasn't actually done anything yet because we've just entered the game. However what I do know is that I'm not going to face a Marine/Marauder conc push. Or a proxy two-gate. Or fast banshees. Or two-base colossus. I know that I either have to wall in with Pylon/Gateway/Core or FFE because it'll keep lings out and I know that I CAN wall in in these two ways because my buildings aren't going to get sniped up a hill with marines at the bottom or hit by a gateway unit push. I also know that I can aim for a two-base colossus attack or HTs to defend against mutas and get archons for a push or any of a number of strategies. Against a random you literally can't even make those kind of judgements. The extent of your knowledge is "there is an opponent on this map". This forces a delay in build choice by up to several minutes if you scout your opponent last on a large map. That is a huge amount of time in which you can't actually properly select a build or decide how to place your buildings because literally anything in the game could be coming. The chance of a straight up build order loss is much, much higher. Not to mention the fact that a huge number of random players abuse this by cheesing or doing an early all-in that you can't prepare for properly. No offence, but literally nobody is going to believe you if they've got any sense at all so you're wasting your time. Your intentions might be noble, but you're flat out not going to be believed by anyone with more than a few brain cells. I played against a random a while back who started the game with a "glhf" and then a couple of minutes complaining about how he was "zerg again" and how the system kept rolling him as zerg that day. I pylon-scouted (of course) and he was actually a Terran who went for a Marine/SCV all-in (of course). I also say "gl hf <race>" and people believe me often enough. I've had opponents go FFE when I spawn zerg random zerg and tell them. However, I will agree that some people are skeptical. Some will tell me, "can I trust you?" lol. I guess some random players must be dishonest about that, because sometimes, after my opponent scouts me, they say something like "wow, an honest random player. That never happens" or something like that. However, if I tell my opponent my race and they don't respond at all, usually I figure it's someone who hates on random players - and then I get ready to defend a cheese. More often than not, it's the random player who gets cheesed by the non random, not the other way around. I always laugh when I tell a zerg I'm terran and then they 6 pool me but I"m walled because... well, I'm terran. And I know they're zerg. And I know they were bm. Amazing how putting 2 and 2 together gives you free wins as a random player. I do think people should practice that matchup more, or at least have a generic build they can use vs. random. A lot of the skill in sc2 is being able to make your build fir the situation. Playing as random doesn't give me free build order wins unless my opponent decides to make that happen. It shows if you're a good sc2 player or not if you can deal with random players appropriately. | ||
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Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
On February 24 2012 01:02 Lightspeaker wrote: Except you're missing the point. Its not having "incomplete" information, its having NO information in your 1v1s (kinda different for team games because pretty much anything goes there). Literally the moment you start a normal game you at least know something about your opponent. I play Protoss, if my opponent is a Zerg I know he could be going 6,7,8-pool. He could be going hatchery first, 14-pool hatchery, 11-overpool. He could be aiming for fast two-base mutas, three base mutas, 7-roach rush, infestor broodlord. Theres TONS of possibilities and I know nothing about what my opponent is doing. I haven't seen him do anything at all yet. Hell, he hasn't actually done anything yet because we've just entered the game. However what I do know is that I'm not going to face a Marine/Marauder conc push. Or a proxy two-gate. Or fast banshees. Or two-base colossus. I know that I either have to wall in with Pylon/Gateway/Core or FFE because it'll keep lings out and I know that I CAN wall in in these two ways because my buildings aren't going to get sniped up a hill with marines at the bottom or hit by a gateway unit push. I also know that I can aim for a two-base colossus attack or HTs to defend against mutas and get archons for a push or any of a number of strategies. Against a random you literally can't even make those kind of judgements. The extent of your knowledge is "there is an opponent on this map". This forces a delay in build choice by up to several minutes if you scout your opponent last on a large map. That is a huge amount of time in which you can't actually properly select a build or decide how to place your buildings because literally anything in the game could be coming. The chance of a straight up build order loss is much, much higher. Not to mention the fact that a huge number of random players abuse this by cheesing or doing an early all-in that you can't prepare for properly. No offence, but literally nobody is going to believe you if they've got any sense at all so you're wasting your time. Your intentions might be noble, but you're flat out not going to be believed by anyone with more than a few brain cells. I played against a random a while back who started the game with a "glhf" and then a couple of minutes complaining about how he was "zerg again" and how the system kept rolling him as zerg that day. I pylon-scouted (of course) and he was actually a Terran who went for a Marine/SCV all-in (of course). If what you say is true, then why aren't you sending a scout earlier or why aren't you sending two scouts on a large map? If those are bad ideas, come up with your own, or are you saying it's simply impossible? You will be playing against someone who does not have the advantage of always playing one race, and that will show. The random's advantage is going to vanish in 2 minutes, leaving a gaping hole of experience with the particular race he happened to have spawed. You also conveninently decided to ignore the uncomfortable question: If random is so strong, why are there no top pros playing random and doesn't that fact make your whining look even more desperate? I'm sure I had a more respectful form of that question somewhere but I'm losing patience with the waves of crap and whining pouring over this thread like an unstoppable avalanche of stupidity. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
In ladder I guess they are cheesy? | ||
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