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It's universally understood that in order to be placed into a certain league as Random, either:
1) The Random user plays standard games and thus must be in a lower league than he would be playing one specific race (for obvious logical reasons; 1/3 the play time in each race is bound to cause a decrease in respective skill level for each race compared to sticking to just one.)
or
2) The Random user is at the level he is at because the decrease in individual race proficiency is made up for through use of more "gimmicky" or "non-standard" strategies, bridging the gap between the straightforward skill levels of him and his opponents.
More often than not, this second case is assumed by default, for whatever reason.
It is in the communal (if flawed, partially or substantially) psyche that if one seriously plays SC2 in an attempt to better his skill and do well in play, he would choose one race and work on it continually. After all, how many notable pros play Random? Only 1 in the top 200 on TLPD.  DemonSheep
The Average-SC2-Joe, in his ignorance and disregard for intelligent cognition, will thus naturally frown upon the "less skillful", "less serious" Random player.
Nothing to be done about it.
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Rizell I find that offensive and horribly inaccurate. In my experience, people assume they are better at the race so they just cheese in mirrors or as I said before, they just cheese because they dont know what race you are. It works both ways. We have to put more effort into improving. I could call main racers lazy goodfornothings that don't practice. But I don't because I'm nice and accepting. Why can't us randoms just be your friend ? : 3
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I have yet to come across a random player that doesnt 6 pool, marine scv all in or proxy 2 gate.....They apparantly dont believe in a game longer then 7 minutes. Its easy to defend of course but its just boring
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Iceland4053 Posts
A very high portion of my vR games ends up being, holding an allin/cheese, so yeah, that's my reason for disliking it. I however understand Z/P pretty well, since I feel their openings are more different depending on race than terran(I mean I have 3 BOs that work decently vs all races), so them not liking it due to not knowing how to open is understandable in the least. I mean for zerg, if the opponent is terran, you've likely gone pool or gas pool, which is far from ideal, and well for toss if he's zerg, you're kinda fucked.
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On February 24 2012 01:14 Rizell wrote:
The largest reason i hate random players on ladder is that the fact is that they will NOT be as good as you in a straigh up game, due them getting less practice in each MU and the hardship of practicing so many diffrent BO's. So they will 90% do some form of cheesy allin on you. Most of the time i just 9 drone scout and play abit more defensive and its a free win. This at a mid/high masters level.
The second reason i hate random people is that i cant do my normal BO vs a specific race on some maps even if i 9 drone scout, unless i get lucky and scout him first.
This is a bad generalization. Random player who does not cheese (and there are a lot of those) will actually be as good as you with all 3 races due to the fact how laddering system works (trying to keep you at 50% WR).
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I can't make my usual openings, I have to scout earlier. < That's why I hate playing against random.
I love when randoms get Z though, they usually don't know what they're doing in ZvZ.
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The reason people don't like random players is because over 90% of them will cheese or all-in no matter what race they get which is generally okay. The problem here is that you can't do a standard opening capable of dealing with every cheese possible from all the races so playing random is just an unfair advantage overall if you are going to do a really early game cheese. Also these random players love to point out they can play all 3 races... I'm not sure 6pool, proxy 2rax, and proxy 2gate counts as knowing how to play all 3 races but whatever floats their boat.
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Buzerio you should have the answer in the poll say Yes (I do play random) Yes (I dont play random) etc. Just so we can see how everyone voting yes is not random.
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On February 23 2012 22:53 -Trippin- wrote:
PvR is fucking retarded. If the random player randomed zerg, you are behind. If they randomed Protoss and you took the precaution to make a gateway at your ramp, you're vulnerable.
Random should show your race upon startup.
While I don't BM random players, this is very much how I feel. I'm forced into 1 gate FE vs zerg with an exposed gateway if they're protoss, and exposed cybercore if I don't scout them in time. It's very frustrating, because most random players choose the optimal opener for their race vs P followed by an all-in or cheese which is harder to defend when you don't open standard. Because of these things, I simply leave the game when faced with a random player. I'm sure there is a proper mindset to about this with, probably playing the numbers hoping to face T or P 2/3 of the time and opening optimally against them. Insta-loss against a Z that makes a few units doesn't sound very appealing though.
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As I have very different openings against the three races, I consider choosing Random cheese. It does not matter what strategy the opponent goes, just by being random he has an advantage of a whole skilllevel. And most Random player know how to exploit that. On the other hand, once you reached the lategame, its almost a free win, as random players seem to have little experience there.
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Hey guys I got cheesed by a protoss once we should remove that race. OP as hell anyways. :D
Edit: Just realized - 100% of Cannon Rushers are protoss. This is statistic mind-blowing. Protoss should be nerfed out of the game immediately.
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I've always found random players easy to deal with as Zerg. Just 14 pool if you can't scout them before that. Then you hold all early cheeses and can put down a hatch as soon as you scout. If close air pos on shattered or metal it's even more lols.
My experience with random cheese is also about 50/50 so I don't discriminate and just play straight-up. I think the QQ needs to stop, playing random isn't easy. Although playing protoss vs random does seem to be a bit of an issue.
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Probably because they are not as good in long macro games since they never play one race all that much so they never really improve it. Cheese on the other hand is very easy to pull off with all races. It is true though, anytime I am against a random I am always extra dilligent with my scouting since I am expecting an all-in.
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As a random player, I don't really get hate that often, I don't ever cheese unless I'm playing right before class or about to go out somewhere ;D. If someone asks me what race I am, I'll tell them, but if they don't wanna know that's fine with me; other Rs that I've played also don't mind telling me their race and they're always honest (maybe it's just an RvR thing, I dunno  ).
The hate is unwarranted, do I hate Protoss players for playing Protoss? No, so hating on Random is kinda silly (1/3 chance of getting Z D: )
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Randoms cheese a lot more than people who pick a race. Thus people associate random with cheese and begin hating the randoms.
At least this is the impression I get from my own experience.
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On February 24 2012 01:14 Rizell wrote:
The largest reason i hate random players on ladder is that the fact is that they will NOT be as good as you in a straigh up game, due them getting less practice in each MU and the hardship of practicing so many diffrent BO's. So they will 90% do some form of cheesy allin on you. Most of the time i just 9 drone scout and play abit more defensive and its a free win. This at a mid/high masters level.
The second reason i hate random people is that i cant do my normal BO vs a specific race on some maps even if i 9 drone scout, unless i get lucky and scout him first.
Well why the bloody hell aren't you using that knowledge against the random player then? If you already know they will do some "cheesy allin", then you are already 80% on your way to victory, since the whole point of cheese is surprise, and you already know what all random players do, don't you?
Alterrnatively, you might want to consider that you have to change your play to take into account what the other guy is doing. It's not a hard concept to grasp, it's really common in strategy games, which you are supposedly a fan of. So try this on for size:
1. Stop complaining you can't do what you've decided you want to do before starting the game.
2. Embrace the strategy element of a strategy game and realise you are put in a situation where you are supposed to use your brain. This is your chance to really shine, don't waste it.
3. If all else fails, play random and get into the top 10 players in the world, since everybody who wants to actually win tournaments hasn't figured out your brilliant strategical analysis above and will be at a MAJOR dissadvantage.
I'll be rooting for you as random, I'm sure you'll steam roll everyone.
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On February 24 2012 01:17 Doctorasul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 01:02 Lightspeaker wrote:On February 24 2012 00:16 Doctorasul wrote:
Incomplete information is part of the game and if you don't adapt your play to reflect the amount of information you have then you are playing badly.. Except you're missing the point. Its not having "incomplete" information, its having NO information in your 1v1s (kinda different for team games because pretty much anything goes there). Literally the moment you start a normal game you at least know something about your opponent. I play Protoss, if my opponent is a Zerg I know he could be going 6,7,8-pool. He could be going hatchery first, 14-pool hatchery, 11-overpool. He could be aiming for fast two-base mutas, three base mutas, 7-roach rush, infestor broodlord. Theres TONS of possibilities and I know nothing about what my opponent is doing. I haven't seen him do anything at all yet. Hell, he hasn't actually done anything yet because we've just entered the game. However what I do know is that I'm not going to face a Marine/Marauder conc push. Or a proxy two-gate. Or fast banshees. Or two-base colossus. I know that I either have to wall in with Pylon/Gateway/Core or FFE because it'll keep lings out and I know that I CAN wall in in these two ways because my buildings aren't going to get sniped up a hill with marines at the bottom or hit by a gateway unit push. I also know that I can aim for a two-base colossus attack or HTs to defend against mutas and get archons for a push or any of a number of strategies. Against a random you literally can't even make those kind of judgements. The extent of your knowledge is "there is an opponent on this map". This forces a delay in build choice by up to several minutes if you scout your opponent last on a large map. That is a huge amount of time in which you can't actually properly select a build or decide how to place your buildings because literally anything in the game could be coming. The chance of a straight up build order loss is much, much higher. Not to mention the fact that a huge number of random players abuse this by cheesing or doing an early all-in that you can't prepare for properly. On February 24 2012 00:39 TheV wrote:
I have 2 accounts, one where I play Zerg and another where I play random.
The first thing I do when the game starts is say gl, hf, <race>.
So the other guy knows what race I am and doesn't BM/gives excuses for losing. No offence, but literally nobody is going to believe you if they've got any sense at all so you're wasting your time. Your intentions might be noble, but you're flat out not going to be believed by anyone with more than a few brain cells. I played against a random a while back who started the game with a "glhf" and then a couple of minutes complaining about how he was "zerg again" and how the system kept rolling him as zerg that day. I pylon-scouted (of course) and he was actually a Terran who went for a Marine/SCV all-in (of course). You also conveninently decided to ignore the incomfortable question: If random is so strong, why are there no top pros playing random and doesn't that fact make your whining look even more desperate?
Because randoms on ladder play for fun and don't mind (and I guess they love it, even) the coin-flippy side of playing Random.
Pro-gamers have their livelihood on the line. You can't gamble on random and expect to always be at an advantage at the start of the game, but you most likely will be less experienced in a longer game. In this a risk worth taking? For random ladderers, yeah, sure, they just want to cheese some ladder points and have fun playing SC2. For pros? They play for money, but it's not the fucking casino.
For example, RvT puts you not in that much of a good position, so a pro would not want to play random vs a strong Terran. Random ZvP is a blast, however, and would probably yield a very high winrate at pro level.
Random is strong man, it's no use denying it. If you make MMA, DRG and MC play on a random account, this account will be strictly stronger and more fearsome than any of these players individually on their main race account.
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On February 24 2012 01:17 Doctorasul wrote:
If what you say is true, then why aren't you sending a scout earlier or why aren't you sending two scouts on a large map? If those are bad ideas, come up with your own, or are you saying it's simply impossible? You will be playing against someone who does not have the advantage of always playing one race, and that will show. The random's advantage is going to vanish in 2 minutes, leaving a gaping hole of experience with the particular race he happened to have spawed.
You also conveninently decided to ignore the uncomfortable question: If random is so strong, why are there no top pros playing random and doesn't that fact make your whining look even more desperate?
I'm sure I had a more respectful form of that question somewhere but I'm losing patience with the waves of crap and whining pouring over this thread like an unstoppable avalanche of stupidity.
If you send two scouts, you put yourself behind early. Sometimes to an absurd amount.
As a zerg player, I can tell you exactly why I hate playing against randoms: Your build is different depending on what race you're playing. If you hatch-first and your opponent turns out to be a protoss player who FFE'd and is now cannoning your expo, you are behind in a way you would not have been if your opponent had told you he was protoss. If you pool-first and your opponent turns out to be terran, you are behind in a way you would not have been had he told you he was terran.
I'm not saying that a proper game is one where your build is executed with no hitches and then you play it out - people messing with your build is part of the game - but part of the game is that every time they try to mess with your build, you have the ability to stop them doing so. If they mess with your build before the game even starts, that's not a proper game. It's silly.
The argument that somebody who plays random has an unfair disadvantage due to having less skill at their race and should therefore be allowed various other advantages is silly. If you are dissatisfied with your level of skill at the race you play, pick a race and improve at it, or play standard, tell your race at the start, and accept that you will probably get knocked down into a lower league. Or, even better, just roll a dice and pick your race before you queue.
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i dont know how it works for terran and zerg players, but these are my thoughts as a toss player
You will always start off behind as a random player. ALWAYS. There isnt any build order tht you can do vs all 3 races, that doesnt put you massively behind in some way. You have to pylon near your ramp in case you vs zerg. You cant pylon on the low ground to FFE though, incase its NOT zerg. You cant chrono too many probes and build your gate late incase youre vs toss and they just get WG quicker then you do. Against terran and toss its not too bad, as you can just build backwards from your ramp. But its zerg that youre just massively behind.
I do 1 of 2 things when i vs random players. If its a map like shakuras or metal/shattered where i can proxy close to them without scouting then i just 2 gate proxy. If its a map like TDA or entombed ill just quit straight away, but not say anything.
I think with random players, when the loading screen comes on it should say Random (*insert race here*) or it shouldnt reveal your race to them, and show you as random or just ?????? opr something
having a scouting lead before the game even starts is so imba
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On February 24 2012 01:21 SuperYo1000 wrote:
I have yet to come across a random player that doesnt 6 pool, marine scv all in or proxy 2 gate.....They apparantly dont believe in a game longer then 7 minutes. Its easy to defend of course but its just boring
I play 2-5 games a week and even I meet more random players that do not cheese. So either you do not actually play or are very unlucky or random players in your league are just strange.
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EPT
