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On January 11 2012 04:25 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins. I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is. Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand.
I was bullied at school. I was bullied on the bus. Hell, I was beaten up at my own bus-stop.
Evidently had I killed the student(s) responsible I would have enjoyed widespread applause. I wish I had known that at the time because I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle.
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On January 11 2012 04:26 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:07 LegendaryZ wrote:On January 11 2012 04:02 Hider wrote:
I think its pretty normal to fear for you life (at least i know i would) if i get surrounded by dudes whom i knew liked to beat me up.
Btw fear for ones life =/ there is a 50% possilbity or higher of dying.
Fearing for ones life = There is a possiblity. (which could be extremely low).
I suppose every situation is unique and people have different points at which they get scared of death. I can only speak to my own experiences in dealing with bullies. I knew my bullies well enough to know that they were complete assholes that might beat me down 8v1, but I also knew that they wouldn't kill me despite their violent tendencies. I can understand that authorities generally don't take these things seriously for various reasons, but I can't imagine escalating the situation with a weapon. Perhaps part of it is because I saw enough of that happening around me and it never ended well. People would stab someone and then get stabbed or shot a month later in retaliation by one of that person's friends. Defending yourself doesn't always make you safer... Precisely. Everyone has a different makeup. Not everyone will take a beatdown with open arms like yourself. In a fight where there are no rules anything can happen. Things will escalate very, very quickly. You can lose control over the situation very easily and there is no telling what they could try to do to you next. Maybe they aren't getting their fill and then another story like Reena Virk's pops up all over again.
It's not a matter of "taking a beat down with open arms" so much as it is a matter of having the composure to think the situation through and not apply a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The potential for retaliation is just another layer of that and further incentive to avoid crossing that line at all costs because nothing good can possibly come of it.
It's disheartening when I read through threads like this and see people speak as if this chain of events was good or even somehow unavoidable. The people who bullied me in the past for the most part all grew out of that phase (and yes, it's often a phase) and are wonderful people now whom I have no ill will towards. Yes, it's a lot easier to grab a knife or a gun than it is to ride out the storm, but I believe that we need to encourage each other to not go down that route and to find hope in other avenues. Looking back, I'm glad I chose to run when I could and when I couldn't, I'm glad I chose to use my fists rather than a weapon despite the fact that it often meant I would lose. I don't know if I could live with myself knowing that one of these people ceased to exist because of my actions.
Of course, it's a lot easier to say this in retrospect. Going through it was miserable as many people have stated. But I just want to emphasize that it passes. You have a whole life ahead of you as do they... an entire life of learning and growing. Don't snuff that out on a whim be it your own life or another's...
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On January 11 2012 04:34 Dizmaul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:29 dUTtrOACh wrote:On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:I just don't understand this thread. I'm with LegendaryZ. I suppose if you see what happened as a bunch of angry bullies mobbing a poor defenseless bully victim, who then defended his very life by stabbing one of the bullies to death—well then "justice was served." Justice was served by one young man fatally stabbing another young man in a neighborhood, but sure justice was served. Personally, I highly doubt that Saavedra's life was in danger, regardless of how he might have felt. By all accounts it was a fight in front of onlookers, not a fight against a mob. And it appears that that Nuno only threw one real punch before he was stabbed to death. Even then, I don't exactly disagree with the judge's decision. I don't expect Saavedra to be able to make perfectly rational decisions as a teenager, especially since it seems the authority figures around him (right down to the busdriver who let Nuno follow him off the bus) did not recognize or handle the situation as they should have. Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've decided to give up on presenting this point of view. Apparently, it's perfectly normal to walk around armed at school, because kids die in middle-school fights, so high-school fights require weaponry. At least in America. I understand this may be on a case-by-case basis, where only people who grossly misinterpret threats of injury as threats of death are allowed to be carrying the weaponry. This one might hurt the feelings of those who support the ruling... Do not click on this if you don't think that only pussies carry knives to school. I'm serious. + Show Spoiler +Also, I get the feeling there are many individuals still butt-hurt from bullying they once experienced drawing upon their own self-pity and disregarding the life of the bully to satisfy their bully blood-lust. HAHA I love this angle of " the only ones on the victims side are those who were victims as well". Yah like that cant be completely turned around to "the only ones on the bully's side are bully's who now fear for there life".
Which is complete bullshit. He's looking for some sort of catharsis.
I already said it, but I will say it again. When I was a kid. I was a bully more often than not. When it's all said and done? I was in the wrong.
When you consider all the variables involved including the kid's psyche it's not as white and black as people make it out to be.
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On January 11 2012 04:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:25 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins. I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is. Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I was bullied at school. I was bullied on the bus. Hell, I was beaten up at my own bus-stop. Evidently had I killed the student(s) responsible I would have enjoyed widespread applause. I wish I had known that at the time because I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle.
Yah I would be pissed if I was in a deadly situation, and had no idea I could defend myself. Buy hey at least you know now.
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On January 11 2012 04:37 Rednaxela_19 wrote:Show nested quote + Tien Canada. January 11 2012 04:25. Posts 3913 PM Profile Report Quote #
On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty.
I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins.
I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is.
Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I suppose that is true... and if he had a learning disability, maybe he was not a fully rational human being. Even so, the article made it seem as though it was just the one bully that was fighting him, and even though he was throwing punches, he was stabbed to DEATH. I'm just curious about how many times he was stabbed, because it seems like if you were the bullied, one stab would have been enough to make the bully stop. And if it was one stab it seems likely that it would have to be in the neck, or a unlikely stab underneath the ribcage and into the heart to be lethal. Which seems kind of far-fetched during the heat of the moment. I'm not trying to defend the bully. But think about it. Someone is DEAD because a kid could not find a better way, or make a better decision about defending himself. I am sure SOMETHING else could have been done to stop a DEATH from happening. Does all of teamliquid put such a low value on the life a person? Even if he was beating this kid up, think about the pain and suffering the family has been put through because of this. Is that worth it to stop someone from being bullied? Especially because there could have easily been a better way to defend yourself... For now, I am withholding judgement on the bullied, and similarly, the deceased, because there simply was not enough information in the article for me to make an accurate assessment of the situation. Such as how many times he stabbed him, and how bad previous beatings had been... But I can say I am sure the bully was not planning on KILLING him. This is not justice to me. Just a case of vengeance that may or may not have been the right decision based on the facts.
Yes something else could have been done, the bully could have acted in "self-defense" by not being a bully. His parents could have taught him that
1. it is wrong to attack other people without cause
and/or
2. if you attack other people they might hurt you in the process (and it is very easy to get seriously hurt as a human)
It is very sad that bullying ended a life, if only the bully had stopped, no life would have been lost.
The problem is bullying is not a "temporary problem". The bully may grow out of it, but the victim may be dead or permanently disabled (ie permanent problem). If the bullying reaches the level where it is potentially a permanent problem, then a permanent solution is justfied.
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If you intimidate, harrass and attack someone so heavily and so often to the point where they feel so unsafe they carry a knife with them to protect themselves from you, and then go out of your way to fight the other person without provocation and attack him with multiple people (they did not punch him, no, but they sure as hell held hem in place for the bully to do the punching), do you people seriously believe that does not qualify as self defense? Why, because he *might not* have been permanently disabled or killed he should have just let himself be beaten up for no reason whatsoever?
Jail is for people mentally disturbed that are a danger to society, defending yourself in such a situation does not qualify you as "a danger to society"; everyone would have done the same thing in that situation given the chance. It's absolutely ridiculous people would even argue that he belongs in jail or that this is not "self defence" but "vengeance". Vengeance would have been him sneaking into the bullies house and stabbing him while he was sleeping, and I can guarantee you we wouldn't approve of that, this was very, very obviously self defense.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
On January 11 2012 04:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:25 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins. I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is. Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I was bullied at school. I was bullied on the bus. Hell, I was beaten up at my own bus-stop. Evidently had I killed the student(s) responsible I would have enjoyed widespread applause. I wish I had known that at the time because I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle.
Next time I get surrounded by 3 guys, get punched while running away, I'll say to myself:
"What would HULKAMANIA do?".
Then I would stand there and let those 3 guys beat the living shit out of me because maybe one day those "bullies" will grow up to be very upstanding citizens.
God the world is so pink and rosy.
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On January 11 2012 04:48 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 04:25 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins. I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is. Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I was bullied at school. I was bullied on the bus. Hell, I was beaten up at my own bus-stop. Evidently had I killed the student(s) responsible I would have enjoyed widespread applause. I wish I had known that at the time because I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle. Next time I get surrounded by 3 guys, get punched while running away, I'll say to myself: "What would HULKAMANIA do?". Then I would stand there and let those 3 guys beat the living shit out of me because maybe one day those "bullies" will grow up to be very upstanding citizens. God the world is so pink and rosy.
Or, you know.. you can keep running. -_-
I don't get the point you're trying to make here. Nobody's telling you not to run or even not to fight. We're just trying to encourage you not to resort to killing someone.
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On January 11 2012 04:44 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:26 StarStruck wrote:On January 11 2012 04:07 LegendaryZ wrote:On January 11 2012 04:02 Hider wrote:
I think its pretty normal to fear for you life (at least i know i would) if i get surrounded by dudes whom i knew liked to beat me up.
Btw fear for ones life =/ there is a 50% possilbity or higher of dying.
Fearing for ones life = There is a possiblity. (which could be extremely low).
I suppose every situation is unique and people have different points at which they get scared of death. I can only speak to my own experiences in dealing with bullies. I knew my bullies well enough to know that they were complete assholes that might beat me down 8v1, but I also knew that they wouldn't kill me despite their violent tendencies. I can understand that authorities generally don't take these things seriously for various reasons, but I can't imagine escalating the situation with a weapon. Perhaps part of it is because I saw enough of that happening around me and it never ended well. People would stab someone and then get stabbed or shot a month later in retaliation by one of that person's friends. Defending yourself doesn't always make you safer... Precisely. Everyone has a different makeup. Not everyone will take a beatdown with open arms like yourself. In a fight where there are no rules anything can happen. Things will escalate very, very quickly. You can lose control over the situation very easily and there is no telling what they could try to do to you next. Maybe they aren't getting their fill and then another story like Reena Virk's pops up all over again. It's not a matter of "taking a beat down with open arms" so much as it is a matter of having the composure to think the situation through and not apply a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The potential for retaliation is just another layer of that and further incentive to avoid crossing that line at all costs because nothing good can possibly come of it. It's disheartening when I read through threads like this and see people speak as if this chain of events was good or even somehow unavoidable. The people who bullied me in the past for the most part all grew out of that phase (and yes, it's often a phase) and are wonderful people now whom I have no ill will towards. Yes, it's a lot easier to grab a knife or a gun than it is to ride out the storm, but I believe that we need to encourage each other to not go down that route and to find hope in other avenues. Looking back, I'm glad I chose to run when I could and when I couldn't, I'm glad I chose to use my fists rather than a weapon despite the fact that it often meant I would lose. I don't know if I could live with myself knowing that one of these people ceased to exist because of my actions. Of course, it's a lot easier to say this in retrospect. Going through it was miserable as many people have stated. But I just want to emphasize that it passes. You have a whole life ahead of you as do they... an entire life of learning and growing. Don't snuff that out on a whim be it your own life or another's...
Not everyone sees the same solutions as you. If you allow yourself to be a complete pushover people will continue to take advantage of you in various situations and it can only get worse. Hopefully it will stop, but more often than not no. Bullies need a fix. No good transpires from bullying.
It's not always avoidable because like I said many times over. You cannot control people's actions or know what the fuck is going on in their head. This is the most important part. If you were Mel Gibson's character in What Women Want then you sir would be a multi-millionaire or potential billionaire.
The kid was socially awkward and was taken advantage of. Not everyone will ride out a storm or see clear skies from a big tunnel (tunnel vision). He repeatedly said he didn't want to fight. Bully made a big mistake and pushed the action. Pretty piss poor judgements on both their parts. An unreadable scenario.
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On January 11 2012 04:48 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 04:25 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins. I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is. Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I was bullied at school. I was bullied on the bus. Hell, I was beaten up at my own bus-stop. Evidently had I killed the student(s) responsible I would have enjoyed widespread applause. I wish I had known that at the time because I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle. Next time I get surrounded by 3 guys, get punched while running away, I'll say to myself: "What would HULKAMANIA do?". Then I would stand there and let those 3 guys beat the living shit out of me because maybe one day those "bullies" will grow up to be very upstanding citizens. God the world is so pink and rosy.
If only there was an option between stabbing them and letting them beat you up!
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On January 11 2012 04:44 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:26 StarStruck wrote:On January 11 2012 04:07 LegendaryZ wrote:On January 11 2012 04:02 Hider wrote:
I think its pretty normal to fear for you life (at least i know i would) if i get surrounded by dudes whom i knew liked to beat me up.
Btw fear for ones life =/ there is a 50% possilbity or higher of dying.
Fearing for ones life = There is a possiblity. (which could be extremely low).
I suppose every situation is unique and people have different points at which they get scared of death. I can only speak to my own experiences in dealing with bullies. I knew my bullies well enough to know that they were complete assholes that might beat me down 8v1, but I also knew that they wouldn't kill me despite their violent tendencies. I can understand that authorities generally don't take these things seriously for various reasons, but I can't imagine escalating the situation with a weapon. Perhaps part of it is because I saw enough of that happening around me and it never ended well. People would stab someone and then get stabbed or shot a month later in retaliation by one of that person's friends. Defending yourself doesn't always make you safer... Precisely. Everyone has a different makeup. Not everyone will take a beatdown with open arms like yourself. In a fight where there are no rules anything can happen. Things will escalate very, very quickly. You can lose control over the situation very easily and there is no telling what they could try to do to you next. Maybe they aren't getting their fill and then another story like Reena Virk's pops up all over again. It's not a matter of "taking a beat down with open arms" so much as it is a matter of having the composure to think the situation through and not apply a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The potential for retaliation is just another layer of that and further incentive to avoid crossing that line at all costs because nothing good can possibly come of it. It's disheartening when I read through threads like this and see people speak as if this chain of events was good or even somehow unavoidable. The people who bullied me in the past for the most part all grew out of that phase (and yes, it's often a phase) and are wonderful people now whom I have no ill will towards. Yes, it's a lot easier to grab a knife or a gun than it is to ride out the storm, but I believe that we need to encourage each other to not go down that route and to find hope in other avenues. Looking back, I'm glad I chose to run when I could and when I couldn't, I'm glad I chose to use my fists rather than a weapon despite the fact that it often meant I would lose. I don't know if I could live with myself knowing that one of these people ceased to exist because of my actions. Of course, it's a lot easier to say this in retrospect. Going through it was miserable as many people have stated. But I just want to emphasize that it passes. You have a whole life ahead of you as do they... an entire life of learning and growing. Don't snuff that out on a whim be it your own life or another's...
lesson of the day.
Run from your problems and they eventually go away.
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Do you people not understand that he didn't kill a kid bullying him, but a kid that bullied him for over a year and then started to beat him up, he tried to run away, was unable to, and then in defense of his life (as he felt at the time), pulled the knife and killed the bully.
It is not simply the case of a kid killing a bully, but rather a kid killing someone who was was actively hurting him and he had no way of getting away.
And to all you say that vengence was served and there was no justice. YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. Justice would have been the bully getting punished; vengence would have been going out of ones way to seek punishment for the bully (in your own hands.) This was defense on one's person, which is the MOST BASIC right any human being has in this world.
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On January 10 2012 15:06 FJ wrote:
He really drove the point home about anti-bullying. He was only acting self defense so it's ok. It was a sharp conclusion to his bullying. I don't think he will get bullied again.
Kind of tasteless, someone died. Anyway I don't think the kid felt like he had any options but to try and defend himself. Carrying a knife might seem a bit excessive but we don't know the details of how he was being bullied, maybe he was afraid for his life and felt it was his only option, telling other people and being diplomatic can only take you so far if someone if intent on harassing/ hurting you.
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On January 11 2012 04:48 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 04:25 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins. I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is. Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I was bullied at school. I was bullied on the bus. Hell, I was beaten up at my own bus-stop. Evidently had I killed the student(s) responsible I would have enjoyed widespread applause. I wish I had known that at the time because I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle. Next time I get surrounded by 3 guys, get punched while running away, I'll say to myself: "What would HULKAMANIA do?". Then I would stand there and let those 3 guys beat the living shit out of me because maybe one day those "bullies" will grow up to be very upstanding citizens. God the world is so pink and rosy.
My world may be a bit on the pink and rosy side. I dunno. In my opinion it beats absolute black and white, though, which it what it seems you operate in.
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I personally am shocked that anyone would feel sorry for the bully.
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On January 11 2012 04:54 Dizmaul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:44 LegendaryZ wrote:On January 11 2012 04:26 StarStruck wrote:On January 11 2012 04:07 LegendaryZ wrote:On January 11 2012 04:02 Hider wrote:
I think its pretty normal to fear for you life (at least i know i would) if i get surrounded by dudes whom i knew liked to beat me up.
Btw fear for ones life =/ there is a 50% possilbity or higher of dying.
Fearing for ones life = There is a possiblity. (which could be extremely low).
I suppose every situation is unique and people have different points at which they get scared of death. I can only speak to my own experiences in dealing with bullies. I knew my bullies well enough to know that they were complete assholes that might beat me down 8v1, but I also knew that they wouldn't kill me despite their violent tendencies. I can understand that authorities generally don't take these things seriously for various reasons, but I can't imagine escalating the situation with a weapon. Perhaps part of it is because I saw enough of that happening around me and it never ended well. People would stab someone and then get stabbed or shot a month later in retaliation by one of that person's friends. Defending yourself doesn't always make you safer... Precisely. Everyone has a different makeup. Not everyone will take a beatdown with open arms like yourself. In a fight where there are no rules anything can happen. Things will escalate very, very quickly. You can lose control over the situation very easily and there is no telling what they could try to do to you next. Maybe they aren't getting their fill and then another story like Reena Virk's pops up all over again. It's not a matter of "taking a beat down with open arms" so much as it is a matter of having the composure to think the situation through and not apply a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The potential for retaliation is just another layer of that and further incentive to avoid crossing that line at all costs because nothing good can possibly come of it. It's disheartening when I read through threads like this and see people speak as if this chain of events was good or even somehow unavoidable. The people who bullied me in the past for the most part all grew out of that phase (and yes, it's often a phase) and are wonderful people now whom I have no ill will towards. Yes, it's a lot easier to grab a knife or a gun than it is to ride out the storm, but I believe that we need to encourage each other to not go down that route and to find hope in other avenues. Looking back, I'm glad I chose to run when I could and when I couldn't, I'm glad I chose to use my fists rather than a weapon despite the fact that it often meant I would lose. I don't know if I could live with myself knowing that one of these people ceased to exist because of my actions. Of course, it's a lot easier to say this in retrospect. Going through it was miserable as many people have stated. But I just want to emphasize that it passes. You have a whole life ahead of you as do they... an entire life of learning and growing. Don't snuff that out on a whim be it your own life or another's... lesson of the day. Run from your problems and they eventually go away.
Goes back to the 4 F's:
We fight
We fuck
We flee
and feed.
All of human behavior can be summed up in this model.
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On January 11 2012 04:51 LegendaryZ wrote:We're just trying to encourage you not to resort to killing someone.
Of course, that's easy to say when you're not in that situation yourself. Put yourself in that actual situation (along with the capability to do something about it) and see how you react. Ask any competent expert on interpersonal violence and self-defense (you know, like the ones called as expert witnesses during the trial) and they can tell you how easy it is for situations like that to escalate and how hard it is to gauge the true level of danger.
Even cops, who are heavily trained to do this sort of thing, sometimes overreact and defensively kill people unnecessarily. And yet, people like you who have (a) never been in that situation or (b) didn't have the capability to defend yourself, sit here on your moral high horses and talk shit about a teenager who did the best they could.
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On January 11 2012 04:55 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:48 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 04:25 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins. I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is. Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I was bullied at school. I was bullied on the bus. Hell, I was beaten up at my own bus-stop. Evidently had I killed the student(s) responsible I would have enjoyed widespread applause. I wish I had known that at the time because I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle. Next time I get surrounded by 3 guys, get punched while running away, I'll say to myself: "What would HULKAMANIA do?". Then I would stand there and let those 3 guys beat the living shit out of me because maybe one day those "bullies" will grow up to be very upstanding citizens. God the world is so pink and rosy. My world may be a bit on the pink and rosy side. I dunno. In my opinion it beats absolute black and white, though, which it what it seems you operate in.
The case was obviously quite complex and the choice to let the kid off was seemingly very well considered (what with experts on bullying etc).
So no, it's not black and white. The bully may not have deserved to die, but no good would have come from sentencing the child for defending himself.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
On January 11 2012 04:51 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:48 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 04:25 Tien wrote:On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty. I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins. I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is. Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I was bullied at school. I was bullied on the bus. Hell, I was beaten up at my own bus-stop. Evidently had I killed the student(s) responsible I would have enjoyed widespread applause. I wish I had known that at the time because I could have saved myself a whole lot of hassle. Next time I get surrounded by 3 guys, get punched while running away, I'll say to myself: "What would HULKAMANIA do?". Then I would stand there and let those 3 guys beat the living shit out of me because maybe one day those "bullies" will grow up to be very upstanding citizens. God the world is so pink and rosy. Or, you know.. you can keep running. -_- I don't get the point you're trying to make here. Nobody's telling you not to run or even not to fight. We're just trying to encourage you not to resort to killing someone.
My point is in a street fight, you don't always have the luxury of dictating the result of the fight. Especially with all the adrenaline flowing through your veins.
If you run away and they catch up to you, you don't know if you will walk out of that fight with just bruises, or in an ambulances with broken bones, or in a bodybag.
Even if the bully did not have the conscious decision to deadly or severely harm the victim, he very well might have.
If I am being chased and surrounded by 3 guys, with one guy initiating the fight, I'm fighting back, and if one of them end up dead because I punched his face so hard it caused internal bleeding in his skull, so be it.
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On January 11 2012 04:47 Krikkitone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 04:37 Rednaxela_19 wrote: Tien Canada. January 11 2012 04:25. Posts 3913 PM Profile Report Quote #
On January 11 2012 04:18 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Who I disagree with is the assholes in this thread that want to take a sad, bloody, and entirely regrettable entanglement like this and chalk it up as some sort of victory against those perennial villains, the "bullies." You're all bloodthirsty.
I've been the victim of pretty bad bullying from ages 5-10 by just my cousins.
I don't think you truly understand how emotionally damaging being a victim of a bully for over a year is.
Until you've been a victim of severe bullying, you will never understand. I suppose that is true... and if he had a learning disability, maybe he was not a fully rational human being. Even so, the article made it seem as though it was just the one bully that was fighting him, and even though he was throwing punches, he was stabbed to DEATH. I'm just curious about how many times he was stabbed, because it seems like if you were the bullied, one stab would have been enough to make the bully stop. And if it was one stab it seems likely that it would have to be in the neck, or a unlikely stab underneath the ribcage and into the heart to be lethal. Which seems kind of far-fetched during the heat of the moment. I'm not trying to defend the bully. But think about it. Someone is DEAD because a kid could not find a better way, or make a better decision about defending himself. I am sure SOMETHING else could have been done to stop a DEATH from happening. Does all of teamliquid put such a low value on the life a person? Even if he was beating this kid up, think about the pain and suffering the family has been put through because of this. Is that worth it to stop someone from being bullied? Especially because there could have easily been a better way to defend yourself... For now, I am withholding judgement on the bullied, and similarly, the deceased, because there simply was not enough information in the article for me to make an accurate assessment of the situation. Such as how many times he stabbed him, and how bad previous beatings had been... But I can say I am sure the bully was not planning on KILLING him. This is not justice to me. Just a case of vengeance that may or may not have been the right decision based on the facts. Yes something else could have been done, the bully could have acted in "self-defense" by not being a bully. His parents could have taught him that 1. it is wrong to attack other people without cause and/or 2. if you attack other people they might hurt you in the process (and it is very easy to get seriously hurt as a human) It is very sad that bullying ended a life, if only the bully had stopped, no life would have been lost. The problem is bullying is not a "temporary problem". The bully may grow out of it, but the victim may be dead or permanently disabled (ie permanent problem). If the bullying reaches the level where it is potentially a permanent problem, then a permanent solution is justfied.
I kinda reflected upon the "parents could have taught him". But I kinda feel like, that his kid is not 5 years anymore. He dont need other people to tell him what is right or wrong. He knew what he did was wrong. But he didn't care, because there was no punishments, and he enjoyed it.
But yeh better raising could have prevented the problem I guess, but when your 14 years old your responsible (or at least should be) for your actions.
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