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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 19:45 perestain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:29 Terranist wrote:
i believe there is a reasonable explanation for naniwa's behavior. he had nestea tilted at MLG, which is a valuable psychological tool in a competitive environment. why play out a meaningless game and allow nestea any sort of redemption and lose the one edge he had over nestea? there was a definite potential that they could've clashed in code S.
secondary to that, gom should give money incentives to compete till the end of the group instead of shitting on naniwa. Theres no need for a reasonable explantion, the behaviour itself was completely reasonable. Naniwa played to win the tournament, not to put on a fake show. No compromises. Whether this is entertaining to watch is up to the viewer, but if you want to see real competition, this is way more honest than playing a half hearted 4gate. I dont understand anyone preferring players to fake it when clearly there is no real competition going on anymore. And people should also stop with all that terrible honor bullcrap. Honor is a concept that was solely invented to make people be proud of a behaviour that is unfavorable for themselves so that others can directly profit from it. Its a means of oppression, nothing more. I want to watch a competition, not some shitty travesty.
<3<3<3 This soo much... Btw would be ok to start a poll about peoples opinion? Maybe show gom how many people wont support them anymore?
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On December 14 2011 19:48 CuSToM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:45 leBIGcrab wrote:On December 14 2011 19:41 CuSToM wrote:On December 14 2011 19:39 leBIGcrab wrote:
To people supporting Gom TV : Stop being such awful pricks and sucking korean *****.
Banning Naniwa IS UNFAIR. Get over it omg. Sounds like you're the one that needs to get over it. Throwing a game IS UNPROFESSIONAL especially when you're a progamer. All these people whining about not wanting to buy tickets cause Naniwa isn't going to be in Code S next season: did you feel like you got your money's worth after what he did last night? You're an idiot. Read my other posts. I dislike Naniwa and what he did wasn't good. But they shouldn't ban him from Code S. That's what i defend. You want to be professional GOM? Write motherfucking clear rules. Well you know your argument is garbage when you have to resort to name calling to defend it. Maybe you should learn to read. He wasn't banned from GSL or Code S, his Code S seed that was GIVEN to him for GSL January was revoked.
No, he earned the Code S seed in a very explicit way, by finishing the highest out of any non-Code-S players at MLG. If that's not earning it then MMA and MC didn't earn theirs.
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On December 14 2011 19:47 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:46 TheDwf wrote:On December 14 2011 19:45 Medrea wrote:
So Gom is removing people's Code S for doing certain strats? Are you seriously calling probe rush a “strat”? Good one beats a 6 pool. Something to think about.
no it doesn't. probe rush CANNOT beat 6 pool no matter what you do
unless you're bronze
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On December 14 2011 19:47 ChoboKal wrote:
I cant wait until a month from now when Naniwa is back in and everyone who says they are not going to by the season pass end up buying it and make GOM more money that way lol. Talk about backfire hahahahaha
People aren't not buying the year pass because naniwa isn't in the first month, they're not buying it because GOM decided to bend the rules to revoke a deserving player of his spot for not playing useless games that they forced him to play. Tournaments should have formats where games matter, and they should have defined rules not so open to interpretation.
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Proberushing is so offensive... Fuck you Gomtv.
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GOM was in the right here
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On December 14 2011 19:37 Candide wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:35 Roxy wrote:On December 14 2011 19:30 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 19:28 Roxy wrote:
wtf, this is bullcrap
he won MLG, u cant just revoke seeds
that goes against whatever agreement they have
MLG paid for GSL players to come play in MLG. Now GSL doesnt live up to their end of the deal?
this is bullcrap. players should be free to do whatever strategy they see fit
if those strategies lose for them, they will be out of future tournaments. noone hands seeds to losers. naniwa earned the seed. everyone knows he threw the game. he said he threw the game... i never said he didnt it was pretty obvious im just saying, he didnt violate any rules how about they ban people for sending 4 marines with 12 scvs? where do you draw the line? should we just ban everyone who loses a game because htey probably werent trying? what? 5 probes will beat 9 drones? what? .... please stop
dude u are making me facepalm so hard right now
learn to read
naniwa did not break any rules
how can you penalize someone for not breaking the rules?
..this isnt north korea
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While I'm not convinced this is the correct decision, Gom has put their foot down and communicated in no uncertain terms what their standards are and we have to respect that. It is not unprecedented for a player to get punished for lacking in etiquette and professionalism (even if there are no explicit rules) and clearly GomTV takes this sort of thing very seriously.
People need to stop making this so personally and acting as if it's some kind of witch hunt against Naniwa or that it's some kind of double standard. Naniwa can still qualify for a future Code S just like any other player: through Code B and A.
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I don't get how they can talk about respect and just blatantly say he doesn't deserved to be called a pro-gamer and a prize money hunter. Openly disrespecting him like that is pretty low and cheap IMO. All because of what, a crappy strategy in a game that had no affect on anything?
Seriously considering revoking my subscription because of this, don't like the way it was handled at all and it sets a very, very poor precedent.
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On December 14 2011 19:49 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:48 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 19:47 Medrea wrote:On December 14 2011 19:46 TheDwf wrote:On December 14 2011 19:45 Medrea wrote:
So Gom is removing people's Code S for doing certain strats? Are you seriously calling probe rush a “strat”? Good one beats a 6 pool. Something to think about. he probably shouldn't have said he threw it then Either way my point stand. TL polled it as the best game of the night.
no, either way your point doesn't stand. one is someone taking a shot, even a risky one, at getting a win. the other is losing on purpose and telling everyone you did it.
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On December 14 2011 19:48 IcedteaSC2 wrote:
This thread needs a poll for
1) I love what gom did
2) I hate what gom did
3) I don't give a fuck
Agreed
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On December 14 2011 19:43 GD1 wrote:
You guys realise naniwa was invited to play in a tournament with the best of the best. This isn't some playhem daily and GOMTV is a business who has to entertain their viewers. I don't see how anyone can approach what Naniwa did as acceptable.
Unless he blatantly cheated I dont see how this could possibly be seen as unacceptable. I've probe rushed before, its part of the game just the same as 6 pooling, cannon rushing, and marine scv all ins. If probe rushing was unacceptable then blizzard would have removed their attack ability already.
Wasnt there a kid that got to GM or high masters just using a worker rush method?
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If you are a foreigner stepping into Korean grounds, learn their culture and respect it, don't bring your disgusting, disrespectful attitude into a place where gaming is taken so seriously. Do it only in your own country for all you want since people there were raised to do whatever they want anyway, it is very different especially to the chinese, koreans and japanese people because they have a special culture that is unique to any other people. Parents there are very strict and people were taught about respect, doing your best, and fighting till the very end. Spoken from experience.
Well deserved punishment.
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On December 14 2011 19:49 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:47 Shellshock1122 wrote:On December 14 2011 19:46 probablywrong wrote:On December 14 2011 19:41 bana wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Legace wrote:On December 14 2011 19:30 mgl0x9 wrote:
A Korean player WOULD NEVER do this and everyone knows it Choya, Byun and CoCa. They would never... Choya did it on LADDER Byung, CoCa in a ONLINE cup, which was for nothing, CoCa loses 1 game on purpose, but won the series anyway. To qualify for Code B, ladder ranking on the KR server is actually important. Byun and Coca did it in a tournament where there was a Code A seed on the line. there was no code a seed on the line There was, the winner of the tournament was seeded into the finals. The winner of the finals received a Code A spot. The match did not directly lead to a Code A spot, but imagine if all of Byun's opponents intentionally dropped games so that he'd get the Code A seed.
There wasn't. Gom didnt have the deal with ESL then.
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On December 14 2011 19:48 Incursus wrote:
With how Koreans have historically dealt with similar behavior in tournaments and over all, I would say that they are being lenient with Naniwa. He has to understand and all of TL needs to understand, Koreans are not like Foreigners, to us what he did is not that big of a deal, it does seem to Koreans to be quite the big deal. If this action is severe enough for them to say he is a disgrace to pro gaming then obviously it matters to them. Coca being ejected from the team house and losing his Code S for forfeiting a game to help a friend.
All of this points to Koreans taking the integrity of sport quite seriously, yes the game did not matter as far as the competition was concerned, but it mattered to Gom. Naniwa came to their house, after having been invited to Code A multiple times and having washed out each and every time. Gom TV has been more than reasonable, they do all this for Naniwa, giving him invitations to Code A (he did gain them through MLG yes) and then he repays them with that kind of behavior?
As a professional he should have played the games out, that's professionalism. A Professional conducts himself in a professional fashion. Even IdrA has more self control than Naniwa, he conducts himself on the whole professionally, the "outbursts" we see from IdrA aren't lapses in self control (most of the time, but long gone are the days of him demanding the opponent to apologize for playing Terran in tournaments.) They are moments of emotion that are just natural to competition.
Naniwa's situation was obviously horrible yes, he had just suffered soul crushing defeats to really obnoxious strategies and was playing a meaningless game against someone that in particular seems to get under his skin. But he knew the rules of competition and is intelligent enough and mature enough to understand the ramifications of his behavior.
tl;dr
Naniwa was aware of the rules, aware of how Koreans see such behavior and lacked discipline and self control.
You don't seem to get that koreans have done something similar or just as bad almost every season, although not as blatant and don't get punished by gom.
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On December 14 2011 19:47 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:46 TheDwf wrote:On December 14 2011 19:45 Medrea wrote:
So Gom is removing people's Code S for doing certain strats? Are you seriously calling probe rush a “strat”? Good one beats a 6 pool. Something to think about.
You're so clueless.
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I think Coca's punishment was even harsher than this, but this is also a bit too harsh. Demuslim threw games by scv rushing in the ESWC qualifiers (he pulled a Coca and a Naniwa) and no one cared. Too bad for Nani.
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Why are people supporting Naniwa.
He publicly stated he threw a game. He stated he didnt want to play it despite being obligated to under the tournament format that he agreed to before the tourney started.
People seem to think a-moving probes is some kind of legitimate strat - maybe if he had kept his hands on the keyboard. He didnt actually play anything.
There are people here claiming why should Naniwa have to adhere to GOMTV's rules and values - well he is in THEIR tournament, playing under THEIR rules which he AGREED to. He is in korea and so should respect their values in which RESPECT and PRIDE are key factors.
I want to see players who want to WIN. Not players who have no pride in themselves, hold their opponents in the lowest regards and seem to not appreciate being in one of the most exclusive tournaments in the world. Other, better players missed out on that tourney - Naniwa should stop acting like a spoilt brat and suck it up.
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On December 14 2011 19:48 thopol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:46 TheDwf wrote:On December 14 2011 19:45 Medrea wrote:
So Gom is removing people's Code S for doing certain strats? Are you seriously calling probe rush a “strat”? If he had four gated, would it have been legit? What if his micro was shitty? What if it was intentionally shitty? How do you tell? If you're saying something crossed the line there needs to be a line. There is no line.
As long as the strat can win a game, it is legit. What if Nestea played super greedy and might died to 4 gate? You never know until you play it out.
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EPT
